STS-114: Discovery
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 Misfit  Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 
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Hmmm... west coast may get a nighttime passing... ID: 143870 ·  |
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N/A Send message Joined: 18 May 01 Posts: 3718 Credit: 93,649 RAC: 0 |
[font='courier,courier new']Foo and bar, but hopefully not fubar. IIRC the fleet is Atlantis, Discovery, Endeavor (was there an Enterprise?) - Both C's never came back.[/font] ID: 143871 · |
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Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0
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(was there an Enterprise?) Yes. It was the prototype that was launched off the back of a 747 and glided to a landing. I don't see why they cant retrofit it with modern technology and make it flight ready. ID: 143874 · |
KWSN - MajorKong  Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0
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(was there an Enterprise?) The Enterprise was, as you said, a prototype. It was never meant to go into space. It would likely be less expensive to just build a new one than it would be to refit Enterprise. However, building a new shuttle at this point (or doing the refit) just would not be cost effective at this point. The fleet of shuttles is scheduled for retirement in about 5 years from now, and the money would be better spent designing and building the shuttles' replacements. Remember, the shuttle's design dates back 30 or more years. Lets just concentrate on designing a replacement using current technology, shall we? There have been great advances in materials since the shuttles were built. We need to take advantage of them. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. ID: 143894 · |
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N/A Send message Joined: 18 May 01 Posts: 3718 Credit: 93,649 RAC: 0 |
Remember, the shuttle's design dates back 30 or more years. [font='courier,courier new']Wasn't it 25 years old? [tap tap tappity tap click tap Wiki....][/font] [font='times, times new roman']<p>The Shuttle program was launched on 1972 January 5, when President Richard M. Nixon announced that NASA would proceed with the development of a reusable low cost Space Shuttle system.</p><p>The project was already to take longer than originally anticipated due to the year-to-year funding caps. Nevertheless, work started quickly and several test articles were available within a few years.</p><p>Most notable among these was the first complete Orbiter, originally to be known as Constitution. However, a massive write-in campaign from fans of the Star Trek television series convinced the White House to change the name to Enterprise. Amid great fanfare, the Enterprise was rolled out on 1976 September 17 and later conducted a successful series of glide-approach and landing tests that were the first real validation of the design.</p><p>The first fully functional Shuttle Orbiter, built in Palmdale, California, was the Columbia, which was delivered to Kennedy Space Center on 1979 March 25 and was first launched on 1981 April 12 with a crew of two. Challenger was delivered to KSC in July 1982, Discovery was delivered in November 1983, and Atlantis was delivered in April 1985. The Shuttle was meant to visit Space Station Freedom, announced in 1984, an ambitious and much-delayed project later downsized and merged into the International Space Station program. Challenger was destroyed in an explosion during launch on 1986 January 28 with the loss of all seven astronauts onboard. The Endeavour was built to replace it (using spare parts originally intended for the other Orbiters) and delivered in May 1991. Columbia was lost, with all seven crew, during re-entry on 2003 February 1, and has not been replaced.</p>[/font][font='courier,courier new']Yup - Your memory is solid. My earliest Shuttle memories was this (But it was the Challenger back when I was a kid).[/font] ID: 143900 · |
tekwyzrd  Send message Joined: 21 Nov 01 Posts: 767 Credit: 30,009 RAC: 0
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ID: 143906 · |
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Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0
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ID: 143907 · |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
Remember, the shuttle's design dates back 30 or more years. I actually remember these ones!  Else this were the one, they practised to glide down with. It was mounted on a boeing 747 from take off up to a certain height, where it was released and the pilots/astronauts should glide it down from there! It was never meant to go up in space. But I read somewhere, that they plan a better design with more aerodynamic for the next generation of space shuttles. The present ones are about as aerodynamic as a brick, I read. Very difficult to glide down. (And my first set was these! I was happy to be able to make something like this! But when we should make our report to advanced programming (C++!), we "played" with these!) "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
ID: 143909 · |
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tekwyzrd Send message Joined: 21 Nov 01 Posts: 767 Credit: 30,009 RAC: 0
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[font='courier,courier new']All Birds are grounded? Did I get this right?[/font] All shuttles are grounded ID: 143916 · |
Mad Max  Send message Joined: 16 Mar 00 Posts: 475 Credit: 213,231,775 RAC: 407
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However, building a new shuttle at this point (or doing the refit) just would not be cost effective at this point. The fleet of shuttles is scheduled for retirement in about 5 years from now, and the money would be better spent designing and building the shuttles' replacements. Remember, the shuttle's design dates back 30 or more years. Lets just concentrate on designing a replacement using current technology, shall we? There have been great advances in materials since the shuttles were built. We need to take advantage of them. A few years back they tried to update just the launch systems with the CLCS program. After a few million $$$ spent, and a lot of time wasted that got round filed! As far as the upgrades go, I think that Endeavour is the last of the orbiters to go through the big orbiter mods. So I think from now on, just the regular flight maintenance is what they are going to get. IAS - Where Space Is Golden!  
ID: 143922 · |
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tekwyzrd Send message Joined: 21 Nov 01 Posts: 767 Credit: 30,009 RAC: 0
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Does anybody remember the space shuttle's counterpart ? ID: 143926 · |
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Mad Max Send message Joined: 16 Mar 00 Posts: 475 Credit: 213,231,775 RAC: 407
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Does anybody remember the space shuttle's counterpart ? The Buran. I hear it made a nice flower pot. IAS - Where Space Is Golden!
ID: 143929 · |
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tekwyzrd Send message Joined: 21 Nov 01 Posts: 767 Credit: 30,009 RAC: 0
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(was there an Enterprise?) A little info on Enterprise. ID: 143953 · |
Kajunfisher  Send message Joined: 29 Mar 05 Posts: 1407 Credit: 126,476 RAC: 0
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Discovery docked!!! :-) No matter where you go, there you are... 
ID: 144011 · |
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tekwyzrd Send message Joined: 21 Nov 01 Posts: 767 Credit: 30,009 RAC: 0
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Has anyone been following the repairs? I find NASA's casual attitude about the damage to the shuttle very disturbing. Yeah, just pull out the gap filler and leave the space between the tiles. I have a bad feeling about the return flight. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001) ID: 146720 · |
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Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0
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Just remember, NASA gives the contracts to the lowest bidder. And they give some contracts to a company in some state which Senator so-and-so represents, at a cost that is out of this world. Enjoy the ride while... Being afraid, very afraid. Account frozen... ID: 146762 · |
Ulrich Metzner  Send message Joined: 3 Jul 02 Posts: 1256 Credit: 13,565,513 RAC: 13 
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Hmmm... now they found a new damage near the cockpit window. Does the shuttle slowly fall apart, or did they ignore such damages before? Aloha, Uli ID: 146837 · |
Ken Phillips m0mcw  Send message Joined: 2 Feb 00 Posts: 267 Credit: 415,678 RAC: 0 
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Has anyone been following the repairs? I find NASA's casual attitude about the damage to the shuttle very disturbing. Yeah, just pull out the gap filler and leave the space between the tiles. I have a bad feeling about the return flight. I too have serious worries about the shuttles return flight, especially now I know what they have just done. In lieu of other information, I can only assume that the gap filler was not just 'any old fabric', and it's there for a reason. Might that reason be to stop white-hot gas plasma from touching thin aluminium? In which case, bearing in mind that they have just carried out experimental repairs to isolated tiles in the cargo bay, would the materials used be adequate, for an actual 'just in case' repair? I've just been reading about a few other 'small issues' that the shuttles heatshield is supposed to have, but, this now gap, near the nose cone (very very hot) has me extremely concerned. Best wishes to the crew for a safe trip home, and I hope we are just worrying over nothing. Ken Phillips Ken Phillips BOINC question? Look here  "The beginning is the most important part of the work." - Plato ID: 146838 · |
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Kajunfisher Send message Joined: 29 Mar 05 Posts: 1407 Credit: 126,476 RAC: 0
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Information about the Thermal Protection System can be found here The page explains each layer of the system and what it's comprised of. From reading this and other pages I understand that there is a layer of "protection" underneath those tiles (but with a lower heat threshhold). From watching NASATV it looks like they are doing something to fill those gaps, not sure what they're going to fill it with or when or even how large those gaps are....I just woke up Also worth mentioning (copied from the site which provided that link): The Columbia Loss FAQ Page or the "Fragile Tiles Link" Just how fragile are those tiles? *Very* fragile according to NASA. The reason is that they're basically made of glass. Before we go into fragility, go read this really well-done NASA fact sheet on the tiles. This fact sheet pretty much tells you everything you wanted to know about the Shuttle's Thermal Protection System, but were afraid to ask: http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/nasafact/tps.htm In a nutshell, despite the fact that they can withstand thousands of degrees of heat during reentry, they can't withstand physical force very well at all. You can dent them with your fingers with a gentle squeeze. You can poke a hole thru them with a *dull* pencil. Put the Shuttle on a 747 and fly it thru a rainstorm. Guaranteed you'll find tiles damaged by impact with raindrops at airspeed above 250-300mph (insert metric conversion here, natch). Even if you don't run into rain, tiles can be damaged due to airspeed and turbulence. So, with this in mind, it's actually not hard to envision one or more tiles damaged by an impact from the External Tank insulating foam, especially when the foam impacts the tile at speeds in excess of 500 mph (800 kph). (edit) had to fix a spelling error ;-) (endedit) No matter where you go, there you are...
ID: 146869 · |
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Mad Max Send message Joined: 16 Mar 00 Posts: 475 Credit: 213,231,775 RAC: 407
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Has anyone been following the repairs? I find NASA's casual attitude about the damage to the shuttle very disturbing. Yeah, just pull out the gap filler and leave the space between the tiles. I have a bad feeling about the return flight. Its better to pull it out than to have it stay there and disrupt smooth flow over the tiles. Which would cause excess heating in that area. Thanx Cajunfisher for finding out info, I have loads of Pdf files that I have been searching since all this has been going on. I guess I should just stick to the on-line stuff like you. Mike IAS - Where Space Is Golden!
ID: 146942 · |
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