And, MY point is that a "real" donation comes from deep within ones pockets, no matter how much they can afford. NOT from what ones computer can do.... Any dolt can supply CPU cycles to the project. It takes someone who REALLY believes in the project to dig deep....

One of the most offensive posts on these boards I have ever seen. SO I'll respond in kind.

As a mere "dolt" with 30 computers running BOINC all paid for by me, a combined RAC of 4000+, and years spent churning out units on classic and SETI BOINC, I find your "beliefs" very insulting.

I have probably invested in the region of UK£10000 over 5 or so years, and that expenditure is ongoing. So because I haven't bunged in a dollar like you, I'm a "dolt"?

Siran of Dolt, I have two individual HOSTS that have contributed more to this project than you - the science, the signal, you remember, the thing we were all looking for before you started playing SETI monopoly and whining that you have donated but not got your little star? How do you know I haven't also donated $1000 to SETI anonymously? YOU DON'T. And I'll tell you now I haven't. But if I had I wouldn't bleat on about it constantly like you do.

You, sir, can take your donation, your "paperwork" which proves it, and shove the whole lot up your a$$. You have the distinction of being the only entry on my ignore list from this day on.

---

Hear Hear!

And, MY point is that a "real" donation comes from deep within ones pockets, no matter how much they can afford. NOT from what ones computer can do.... Any dolt can supply CPU cycles to the project. It takes someone who REALLY believes in the project to dig deep....

One of the most offensive posts on these boards I have ever seen. SO I'll respond in kind.

As a mere "dolt" with 30 computers running BOINC all paid for by me, a combined RAC of 4000+, and years spent churning out units on classic and SETI BOINC, I find your "beliefs" very insulting.

I have probably invested in the region of UK£10000 over 5 or so years, and that expenditure is ongoing. So because I haven't bunged in a dollar like you, I'm a "dolt"?

Siran of Dolt, I have two individual HOSTS that have contributed more to this project than you - the science, the signal, you remember, the thing we were all looking for before you started playing SETI monopoly and whining that you have donated but not got your little star? How do you know I haven't also donated $1000 to SETI anonymously? YOU DON'T. And I'll tell you now I haven't. But if I had I wouldn't bleat on about it constantly like you do.

You, sir, can take your donation, your "paperwork" which proves it, and shove the whole lot up your a$$. You have the distinction of being the only entry on my ignore list from this day on.

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

I second that!

Hear Hear!

And, MY point is that a "real" donation comes from deep within ones pockets, no matter how much they can afford. NOT from what ones computer can do.... Any dolt can supply CPU cycles to the project. It takes someone who REALLY believes in the project to dig deep....

One of the most offensive posts on these boards I have ever seen. SO I'll respond in kind.

As a mere "dolt" with 30 computers running BOINC all paid for by me, a combined RAC of 4000+, and years spent churning out units on classic and SETI BOINC, I find your "beliefs" very insulting.

I have probably invested in the region of UK£10000 over 5 or so years, and that expenditure is ongoing. So because I haven't bunged in a dollar like you, I'm a "dolt"?

Siran of Dolt, I have two individual HOSTS that have contributed more to this project than you - the science, the signal, you remember, the thing we were all looking for before you started playing SETI monopoly and whining that you have donated but not got your little star? How do you know I haven't also donated $1000 to SETI anonymously? YOU DON'T. And I'll tell you now I haven't. But if I had I wouldn't bleat on about it constantly like you do.

You, sir, can take your donation, your "paperwork" which proves it, and shove the whole lot up your a$$. You have the distinction of being the only entry on my ignore list from this day on.

---

So far for this month we have cracked the record for numbers of donations! :-D

Hi

Hopefully they will use it to buy a bigger Raid drive.
But when i remember correctly for the hardware are only the key and major sponsors.

greetz Mike

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Monday I will contact a friend of mine that has been doing Silk Screening for somewhere around 20 years... It used to be that 3 color setup was around a $100 and with a minimum+ order the costs vary...

Cafe Press is worth investigating: they do smaller quantities than you get through traditional means.

If the minimum is 200 through a traditional shop, and we get 200, then another 100 want 'em, it becomes hard to make more.

---

Ned

One reason I brought it up, is if "I handle the setup charge" then the screens can be preserved, so a smaller "follow on" could be done without the new Full setup charge (obviously we want pictures of people in the shirts)... I can request that he give me a copy of the CYK color separations to forward to UCB... So call it an additional donation on my part...

So with a Larger Minimum order other things can happen such as reduced per unit cost and/or stash a few extra for the Seti Store... After the cost per unit is determined UCB has a chance to see what profit they want per unit...
UCB does setup for the Form for the order process and UCB recieves the money, they have the count of small, medium, large, XL etc... A purchase order is generated and I "Do Not" have to handle any money... If it is advertised and it is not in Stock (in the store) and orders are processed monthly... Then smaller follow on orders can be accomplished...

So the presumption is that the whole thing can be "affordable" by all parties and UCB makes a bit of change... If the price is right they they could also have a few for the Seti@home Store... and other things like Mugs or Ball Caps...

Monday I will contact a friend of mine that has been doing Silk Screening for somewhere around 20 years... It used to be that 3 color setup was around a $100 and with a minimum+ order the costs vary...

Cafe Press is worth investigating: they do smaller quantities than you get through traditional means.

If the minimum is 200 through a traditional shop, and we get 200, then another 100 want 'em, it becomes hard to make more.

The key is preserving the CYK files... The actual screens are produced from the CYK separations... The CYK is sent to a machine that is almost like producing a photographs, it is then developed and when done they add a chemcial that disolves the membrane and the screen is recyled... The large part of the initial cost is generating those CYK files and developing them... I have been through this a few times...

So the modest goal is to get a High Quality T-shirt to the User for less than $20 US... IF UCB realizes only $5-10 per shirt then a 200 Min order would result in a $1,000-$2,000 that for their use... So without good numbers it is either "This is Great or a bust"...

So along with the communications issue, if a quarterly news letter was sent to all ~400,000+ active users and it was offered to to purchase a Set@home T-shirt and 25% responded... What are the possibilities..

Me I am only offering this inital footwork.

R/

Al

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Crystallize

I think it's quite enough that I donate my computer time.

I say, lets keep this project non commercial

SunGrid stated that the Computer Lab that he uses for testing charges $1.00/computer hour. Seti is used for burnin testing... That time is "donated"...

As near as I can calculate I have generated from my small number of machines (over the years) 419,xxx+ computer hours (Seti Classic and Seti BOINC)... This month I also donated a small amount of money...

In my Opinion, Seti is Not Commercial and will never be... So while they do not have a large income help from US the users helps! So beside my Computers, Electricity and Frustration... I did decide to donate a small amount of cash...

It for each of us to decide, the value they choose to donate. Let no one say you are wrong for only donating computer time to the Science!


R/

Al

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

We have now donated more money than in September last year! :-D

We could use 3 donators as those in March 2004 though! ;-)

Thank you all! :-D

Of course, that was the intended goal of the stars. As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

---

Of course, that was the intended goal of the stars. As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

Personally, I hope they take all the donated money and put it into booze and smokes, because it would take a whole lot of both to put up with this board. I've often wondered if the 'server closet' was just a euphemism for where they hide their stash anyway. :)

Dig

We have now donated more money than in September last year! :-D

We could use 3 donators as those in March 2004 though! ;-)

Thank you all! :-D

Of course, that was the intended goal of the stars. As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

If the project can't supporting a staff of "x", it might be time to consider a staff of "x-1". The green star thing isn't for the support of the project, it's for the support of the staff...

---

As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

Wrong. Salaries aren't being augmented. Nobody's getting raises around here. We just get to keep our current jobs, such as they are, and the SETI@home project can continue to run.

No money = no staff/equipment.
No staff/equipment = no SETI@home.

- Matt

---

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude

We have now donated more money than in September last year! :-D

We could use 3 donators as those in March 2004 though! ;-)

Thank you all! :-D

Of course, that was the intended goal of the stars. As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

If the project can't supporting a staff of "x", it might be time to consider a staff of "x-1". The green star thing isn't for the support of the project, it's for the support of the staff...

And you point is...? If you can't afford, or don't want to donate, so be it; no ones putting a gun to your head.

---

Account frozen...

As already stated by Matt the primary purpose of these donations will be to augment his and a couple of other peoples salaries.

Wrong. Salaries aren't being augmented. Nobody's getting raises around here. We just get to keep our current jobs, such as they are, and the SETI@home project can continue to run.

No money = no staff/equipment.
No staff/equipment = no SETI@home.

- Matt

But wouldn't a staff of "x-1" help project funding? Seems if the project is short of funds, reducing staff might be a reality. I never said you were looking for a raise - just that you were looking for the current staff to not get "laid off".

It's reality in the real world.. If the pay of 5 sysops can't be supported, it might be time for 4 sysops to do the work of 5...

---

But wouldn't a staff of "x-1" help project funding? Seems if the project is short of funds, reducing staff might be a reality. I never said you were looking for a raise - just that you were looking for the current staff to not get "laid off".

It's reality in the real world.. If the pay of 5 sysops can't be supported, it might be time for 4 sysops to do the work of 5...

I was accusing the other guy of misquoting me regarding the raises. But anyway, this is all very true - an unfortunate reality that we are firmly aware of. It's just that, for all types of staff positions necessary to keep the project's head just barely above water, x-1 is currently somewhere between -1 and 0.

I know somebody out there would love to accuse us of managerial incompetence, but I've been here for a looong time. By the time we explained to you the litany of tasks and chores and who does what and why, you would have already been officially working here for a year, and we can't afford you.

- Matt

---

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude

But wouldn't a staff of "x-1" help project funding? Seems if the project is short of funds, reducing staff might be a reality. I never said you were looking for a raise - just that you were looking for the current staff to not get "laid off".

It's reality in the real world.. If the pay of 5 sysops can't be supported, it might be time for 4 sysops to do the work of 5...

I was accusing the other guy of misquoting me regarding the raises. But anyway, this is all very true - an unfortunate reality that we are firmly aware of. It's just that, for all types of staff positions necessary to keep the project's head just barely above water, x-1 is currently somewhere between -1 and 0.

I know somebody out there would love to accuse us of managerial incompetence, but I've been here for a looong time. By the time we explained to you the litany of tasks and chores and who does what and why, you would have already been officially working here for a year, and we can't afford you.

- Matt

Hate to say it matt, but in the real world, if seti/boinc didn't have the funding to survive, it might be time for UCB to do only BOINC (as it's got NSF grants for that). Green stars and $4k/month just wont cut it. There are enough other Boinc projects running now to keep the Boinc project alive.

You aren't the only sysop on seti seti/boinc (you've posted the names before), so it's not "-1 and 0".. it more like 5 goes to 4, or 4 goes to 3.

If you want UCB's seti stuff to contine, it might mean more work for those remaining, but that is the real world....

Green star = let Matt keep his job. No new hardware included!

---

Green star = let Matt keep his job. No new hardware included!

Sounds good to me - let's get more of those green stars, people!!!!

You aren't the only sysop on seti seti/boinc (you've posted the names before), so it's not "-1 and 0".. it more like 5 goes to 4, or 4 goes to 3.

We'll there's really only one official sysop but we all are when we need to be. There's so many different terms to describe our different positions. Me, personally, I'm part webmaster and part scientific programmer. Also part grant writer and part tech support. I guess I also do some PR and occasionally BOINC debugging. What is a sysop anyway?

Oy. I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding or an argument. Please don't make me clarify semantics in a message board forum. You live/work in Berkeley? Perhaps we should meet after work someday. We can share a pitcher of beer (I'll buy) and we could clear up some misconceptions.

- Matt - SETI@home

---

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude

What is a sysop anyway?

System Operator

You aren't the only sysop on seti seti/boinc (you've posted the names before), so it's not "-1 and 0".. it more like 5 goes to 4, or 4 goes to 3.

We'll there's really only one official sysop but we all are when we need to be. There's so many different terms to describe our different positions. Me, personally, I'm part webmaster and part scientific programmer. Also part grant writer and part tech support. I guess I also do some PR and occasionally BOINC debugging. What is a sysop anyway?

Oy. I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding or an argument. Please don't make me clarify semantics in a message board forum. You live/work in Berkeley? Perhaps we should meet after work someday. We can share a pitcher of beer (I'll buy) and we could clear up some misconceptions.

- Matt - SETI@home

I'm not in CA, and don't get to UCB that often (it's been 10 years)

You and your crew are "sysops" and if you don't get that, I'm sorry. You admitister the system. "System operations" is what it means. Doesn't say "webmaster" or "db admin", but they are both "sysops" Along with "grant writer"! (as a part time task) Your "semantics" are yours, not hidden from someone that's been doing this for 25 years!

Matt.. hope your band can cut a disk... It may be your only way out!

Oy.. no wonder that the project was down for almost a month. The sysops don't buy into the fact that they are sysops!

---

What is a sysop anyway?

System Operator

I meant "what do sysops do?" And yes, I meant that rhetorically.

- Matt

---

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude