There is only one good reason for BOINC and that is to be able to run other projects with the same core management function. Unfortunately that management system has not been developed from what has been achieved (over time yes) with Classic and therefore in many respects it is a massive backward step.

Things that are supposed to be an improved version should be better than the forerunner.

The system is actually doing quite a bit more than classic. And as has been mentioned elsewhere on the board by a member of the S@H team, the classic project has more problems than BOINC does. They just aren't as visible because users aren't given as much access to information about the infrastructure.

The system is actually doing quite a bit more than classic. And as has been mentioned elsewhere on the board by a member of the S@H team, the classic project has more problems than BOINC does. They just aren't as visible because users aren't given as much access to information about the infrastructure.

Nobody is saying it isn't doing or is capable of doing more. But the point is that the system in management terms is backward compared to classic and its add-ons.

Classic's problems are in the server area, clearly we cannot comment as yet on BOINC's performance in this respect, but the client (which we are running for the project team) and its management gui do NOT provide as good functionality as what we are expected to be throwing away shortly. Anybody who READS the continuous stream of the same complaints, comments and wish lists which shows that the project team are not taking any notice, will see that. Trying to pretend that BOINC is the best thing since sliced bread compared to its predecessor and failing to address the fundamental flaws is delusional. There is a parable which is an exact parallel, the fable of The Emperor's New Clothes. Just because BOINC is new(ish) does not mean it is all wonderful and the answer to everybody's dreams.

It is the lack of functionality, statistics and so on that generates the comments not that the concept of being able to run mulitpoe projects is wrong.

Drop the siege mentality and listen to and read what the users are saying, especially those who have been loyal since the start. In many respects BOINC is the wrong solution to the wrong problems.

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The system is actually doing quite a bit more than classic. And as has been mentioned elsewhere on the board by a member of the S@H team, the classic project has more problems than BOINC does. They just aren't as visible because users aren't given as much access to information about the infrastructure.

Nobody is saying it isn't doing or is capable of doing more. But the point is that the system in management terms is backward compared to classic and its add-ons.

Classic's problems are in the server area, clearly we cannot comment as yet on BOINC's performance in this respect, but the client (which we are running for the project team) and its management gui do NOT provide as good functionality as what we are expected to be throwing away shortly. Anybody who READS the continuous stream of the same complaints, comments and wish lists which shows that the project team are not taking any notice, will see that. Trying to pretend that BOINC is the best thing since sliced bread compared to its predecessor and failing to address the fundamental flaws is delusional. There is a parable which is an exact parallel, the fable of The Emperor's New Clothes. Just because BOINC is new(ish) does not mean it is all wonderful and the answer to everybody's dreams.

It is the lack of functionality, statistics and so on that generates the comments not that the concept of being able to run mulitpoe projects is wrong.

Drop the siege mentality and listen to and read what the users are saying, especially those who have been loyal since the start. In many respects BOINC is the wrong solution to the wrong problems.

"listen to and read what the users are saying,"

Probably the most sensible thing said on these boards for along time.........

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It is the lack of functionality, statistics and so on that generates the comments not that the concept of being able to run mulitpoe projects is wrong.

Functionality? What classic were you running? The classic I ran would download a WU, process it, upload the result, rinse and repeat... Yes, functional, but nothing to write home about.

People seem to forget that the functionality they liked with classic was due to third party add ons. BOINC has far more functionality than classic ever did.

Sure, BOINC seti doesn't have quite the online stats that classic did, (registration class and the like...) but third party stats sites surpass classic, so to me it's a total non-issue. BOINC does include a stats associated feature that I like quite a bit that classic didn't have. The results view. I love seeing the list of results and the fact I can check them out. I can easily see what problems (if any) were encountered, what other machines I was paired with, etc...

Drop the siege mentality and listen to and read what the users are saying, especially those who have been loyal since the start.

It goes both ways. Many of us have been using BOINC for well over a year. Most of the complaints have workarounds, or the user was simply unaware of BOINC is actually doing, and the user is doing something incorrectly. Many even don't know that BOINC is not actually S@H! The S@H server issues aren't a BOINC problem. I would think those users loyal from the start would be a little more tolerant of the slight problems the new project is having. Classic had problems at startup as well.

In many respects BOINC is the wrong solution to the wrong problems.

Which solution is wrong for what problems? That's another thing. Many people seem to be vehemently opposed to BOINC Seti without actually stating what they are having problems with.

It is the lack of functionality, statistics and so on that generates the comments not that the concept of being able to run mulitpoe projects is wrong.

Functionality? What classic were you running? The classic I ran would download a WU, process it, upload the result, rinse and repeat... Yes, functional, but nothing to write home about.

People seem to forget that the functionality they liked with classic was due to third party add ons. BOINC has far more functionality than classic ever did.

Sure, BOINC seti doesn't have quite the online stats that classic did, (registration class and the like...) but third party stats sites surpass classic, so to me it's a total non-issue. BOINC does include a stats associated feature that I like quite a bit that classic didn't have. The results view. I love seeing the list of results and the fact I can check them out. I can easily see what problems (if any) were encountered, what other machines I was paired with, etc...

Drop the siege mentality and listen to and read what the users are saying, especially those who have been loyal since the start.

It goes both ways. Many of us have been using BOINC for well over a year. Most of the complaints have workarounds, or the user was simply unaware of BOINC is actually doing, and the user is doing something incorrectly. Many even don't know that BOINC is not actually S@H! The S@H server issues aren't a BOINC problem. I would think those users loyal from the start would be a little more tolerant of the slight problems the new project is having. Classic had problems at startup as well.

Read what you just wrote . You've used it for over a year and it still has problems. Over a year later is still start up problems!
If it still has problems WHY scrap classic bofore they are fixed?

In many respects BOINC is the wrong solution to the wrong problems.

Which solution is wrong for what problems? That's another thing. Many people seem to be vehemently opposed to BOINC Seti without actually stating what they are having problems with.

Did You even bother to read my original post that started this thread.
I listed several problems. Nobody has even attemped to address even one of them.
They just rant how great boinc is. Well I for one don't agree. I see the problems and apparently the powers to be could care less about what doesn't work
. They only want a pat on the back for what a great job they didn't do!

This boinc project is SO LEGITIMATE there isn't even a email to report bugs to.

---

Did You even bother to read my original post that started this thread.
I listed several problems. Nobody has even attemped to address even one of them.
They just rant how great boinc is. Well I for one don't agree. I see the problems and apparently the powers to be could care less about what doesn't work
. They only want a pat on the back for what a great job they didn't do!

This boinc project is SO LEGITIMATE there isn't even a email to report bugs to.

OK, let's start:

The windows graphics are useless ...

So? In what respect? What's the main broken feature?
(To be honest: I've never looked at it since I run the optimized client without graphics for better performance, but if I remember correct, it looked quite similar to the stuff a colleague had on his puter once, and that was Classic)

LINUX graphics don't exist.

That's always the problem with those not so common OS. First serve the majoroty, then the rest.
I'm on windoze, so I can't complain ;)

The connect to seti button in Linux doesn't work.

See above.

The view pending credits on the web interface page doesn't work

It wonders me, that it's still there, since I never figured out, why it was there in the first place. All you need to know is beneath the results link.


Ans as for the bug report:
go to the official Boinczilla Bug database, or subscribe to some of the mailing lists.

---

Gruesse vom Saenger

For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki

People seem to forget that the functionality they liked with classic was due to third party add ons. BOINC has far more functionality than classic ever did.

BOINC has less functionality than classic and the current crop of add-ons. THAT should have been the starting point and not try to reinvent the wheel - badly. Read all the negative comments people are making. BOINC is NOT wonderful.

Sure, BOINC seti doesn't have quite the online stats that classic did, (registration class and the like...) but third party stats sites surpass classic, so to me it's a total non-issue. BOINC does include a stats associated feature that I like quite a bit that classic didn't have. The results view. I love seeing the list of results and the fact I can check them out. I can easily see what problems (if any) were encountered, what other machines I was paired with, etc...

I have yet to see any stats that are as good as those shown with classic, I can see registration class, see my own, get overview figures and so on. All of these are absent with BOINC.

It goes both ways. Many of us have been using BOINC for well over a year. Most of the complaints have workarounds, or the user was simply unaware of BOINC is actually doing, and the user is doing something incorrectly. Many even don't know that BOINC is not actually S@H! The S@H server issues aren't a BOINC problem. I would think those users loyal from the start would be a little more tolerant of the slight problems the new project is having. Classic had problems at startup as well.

A pity that the queuing feature is useless, and that specific individual machine preferences cannot be set, cannot be viewed without going on line, no control over the scheduling, it continues to allocate unworkable deadlines and continues to process the wus,..... Need we go on? Read all the negative comments and ask yourself why people complain and ask also why the project team ignore them, leaving third party people to defend them?

Read what you just wrote . You've used it for over a year and it still has problems. Over a year later is still start up problems!
If it still has problems WHY scrap classic bofore they are fixed?

Which solution is wrong for what problems? That's another thing. Many people seem to be vehemently opposed to BOINC Seti without actually stating what they are having problems with.

No, people are being quite specific about what is missing or not working very well. If this software is so wonderful why do they leave it to thrid party people to produce some documentation, if there need to be workarounds, why do they not fix them? Why do they not make the thing work in a manner that addresses the complaints?

The uncritical acclaimers of this concept fail to understand the problems. There is nothing wrong with the idea of improving things, making the concept support other projects and so on. People are NOT complaining about these, BUT are complaining about the lack of functionality, lack of stats, (which is all us as users get out of our efforts and electricity bills).

New is not necessarily better.

They just rant how great boinc is. Well I for one don't agree. I see the problems and apparently the powers to be could care less about what doesn't work
They only want a pat on the back for what a great job they didn't do!

This boinc project is SO LEGITIMATE there isn't even a email to report bugs to.

Quite, QED!

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Did You even bother to read my original post that started this thread.
I listed several problems. Nobody has even attemped to address even one of them.
They just rant how great boinc is. Well I for one don't agree. I see the problems and apparently the powers to be could care less about what doesn't work
. They only want a pat on the back for what a great job they didn't do!

This boinc project is SO LEGITIMATE there isn't even a email to report bugs to.

OK, let's start:

The windows graphics are useless ...

So? In what respect? What's the main broken feature?
(To be honest: I've never looked at it since I run the optimized client without graphics for better performance, but if I remember correct, it looked quite similar to the stuff a colleague had on his puter once, and that was Classic)

So why not comment on something that You do know ?

LINUX graphics don't exist.

That's always the problem with those not so common OS. First serve the majoroty, then the rest.
I'm on windoze, so I can't complain ;)

The connect to seti button in Linux doesn't work.

See above.

It's still incomplete & don't work even if you ar a winblows user.
Again why not comment on something you do know about.

The view pending credits on the web interface page doesn't work

It wonders me, that it's still there, since I never figured out, why it was there in the first place. All you need to know is beneath the results link.

So You dont have to look thru hundreds of old results to see whats pending.
How dumb can you be ???

Ans as for the bug report:
go to the official Boinczilla Bug database, or subscribe to some of the mailing lists.

So why dont the publish it on the main web page. Afraid they'll get too may
bugs mailed in ?

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Ans as for the bug report:
go to the official Boinczilla Bug database, or subscribe to some of the mailing lists.

More USELESS BOINC crap ... You must log in to report a bug .. WHAT BS!
And just how are we expected to use this ?? Again no clue on the web page.
The mail passwd doesn't even work.

This is the worst software I've ever seen. It even makes winblows look good.
Gee Maybe like winblows the version two years from now might work.

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More USELESS BOINC crap ... You must log in to report a bug .. WHAT BS!
And just how are we expected to use this ?? Again no clue on the web page.
The mail passwd doesn't even work.

What do you expect? An open forum, where trolls like you can spam the developers lists with unsubstanciated crap?
I registered just yesterday (out of curiosity, not because I had a bug to report), and everything went just fine. Got in there without hickup.


And for the graphics: I had them running on my puter 'til I changed to the optimized client some month ago. So I know how it looked like, and I've seen something very similar on the screen of my colleague, which was Classic. So, where is the big dissapointment now? Again just totally unfunded ranting!

Bugger off, troll.

---

Gruesse vom Saenger

For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki

More USELESS BOINC crap ... You must log in to report a bug .. WHAT BS!
And just how are we expected to use this ?? Again no clue on the web page.
The mail passwd doesn't even work.

What do you expect? An open forum, where trolls like you can spam the developers lists with unsubstanciated crap?
I registered just yesterday (out of curiosity, not because I had a bug to report), and everything went just fine. Got in there without hickup.


And for the graphics: I had them running on my puter 'til I changed to the optimized client some month ago. So I know how it looked like, and I've seen something very similar on the screen of my colleague, which was Classic. So, where is the big dissapointment now? Again just totally unfunded ranting!

Bugger off, troll.

I would just like to find the information avalible. I'm glad you were able
to register. I FOUND NO INFORMATION on registration. I said that

Apparently being german you can't READ ENGLISH.

Stop answering comments with useless banter just to get something started....
That what a Troll is, as you seem to be everywhere you post. Your rantings
and namecalling just show your mentality. Your post contributed nothing. You
could have at least told us how to register. Your comments on graphics don't
even make any sense. "unfunded ranting" What in the world are you trying to
say. Your not even making your self comprehensible in english. You've already
done this several times previously in the thread .

If what's being said here bothers you then don't read it and don't comment.
Please Stop making a fool of your self and bothering the rest of us with your
nonsence.

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I would just like to find the information avalible. I'm glad you were able
to register. I FOUND NO INFORMATION on registration. I said that

Apparently being german you can't READ ENGLISH.

As it's plain and straight on the homepage under "Get Started" you're the one whos incapable of reading obviously.

And for the graphics "problem": I still don't know what "broken" with the windows grphics, as you just said it's useless. What do you expect? What are you missing? What's too much?
A statement like "It's broken." without explanation is imnsho just trolling.

---

Gruesse vom Saenger

For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki

I would just like to find the information avalible. I'm glad you were able
to register. I FOUND NO INFORMATION on registration. I said that

Apparently being german you can't READ ENGLISH.

I think I figured out why you are having problems with BOINC... If you can't follow instructions to register for a simple web page, (pretty standard if I remember correctly, but I registered a while ago) then you will definitely experience some problems.

Since you could find no info on registration, I'll help you out. If I was trying to register on a page such as BoincZilla, I think the "create new account" link is where I would start. YMMV.

I would just like to find the information avalible. I'm glad you were able
to register. I FOUND NO INFORMATION on registration. I said that

Apparently being german you can't READ ENGLISH.

As it's plain and straight on the homepage under "Get Started" you're the one whos incapable of reading obviously.

Oh really WHAT HOMEPAGE. It's not on the setiboinc main page or the boinc main page.

And for the graphics "problem": I still don't know what "broken" with the windows grphics, as you just said it's useless. What do you expect? What are you missing? What's too much?
A statement like "It's broken." without explanation is imnsho just trolling.

Then I guess You havn't tried reading them. Even if you stop them from moving
they are still poor. I expect to be able to read what they are displaying. There have been several complaints about that. Where have You been.

FYI I didn't say "It's broken.". I said they were useless ie "of no use" YOU CAN"T USE THEM.

GO away and practice your english in another thread.

---

quote]
I think I figured out why you are having problems with BOINC... If you can't follow instructions to register for a simple web page, (pretty standard if I remember correctly, but I registered a while ago) then you will definitely experience some problems.

Since you could find no info on registration, I'll help you out. If I was trying to register on a page such as BoincZilla, I think the "create new account" link is where I would start. YMMV.
[/quote]

Thanks. I made the wrong assumption about the "Create new account" I thought that was for getting an account to run boinc & it's projects which I already have. It
would have been nice if the german troll had just said what you did.

I may be standard but I've never had to register to submit bug a report in my over 25 years of using computers.

---

I thought this was "Wish list" NOT "Rag on me because boinc has problems"

The reply's posted here have been appaling. Kill the messenger because we don't like the message.

If you have solutions "Please Post Them"
Posting "I don't care about that" or "It works for me" just wastes everyone's time.

The only usefull information culled from all the banter is how to submit a bug report. Which should have been under contact information on the main site.

No one should have to defend their problems using boinc or defend boinc itself.
All the postings in all the areas speak for them selfs.

---

I thought this was "Wish list" NOT "Rag on me because boinc has problems"

The reply's posted here have been appaling. Kill the messenger because we don't like the message.

If you have solutions "Please Post Them"
Posting "I don't care about that" or "It works for me" just wastes everyone's time.

The only usefull information culled from all the banter is how to submit a bug report. Which should have been under contact information on the main site.

No one should have to defend their problems using boinc or defend boinc itself.
All the postings in all the areas speak for them selfs.

After reading through this entire post, I agree with only one post, the very last one from Rob (see above). This area is for wish list items and the whole lot of you attacked him like rabid devil dogs. The entire rant session could have been avoided by simply reading his suggestions and moving on. Everyone is entitled to not liking BOINC if they so desire.

-Terry

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<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2263&amp;prj=1&amp;trans=off"><img src="http://seti.mundayweb.com/stats.php?userID=937&amp;trans=off">

And just how would they know which result was the right one?

They don't. All they are looking at is whether several machines turn in similar results. Thus considering the science 'valid'.

Similar results?
What if all other results are "Client error"? Then 5 hours cpu time will result in 0.00 credits. See here or here. Seems to me somewhat inequitable and not reasoned.

Second question: How is the "Recent average credit" calculated? Is there a link one can read about in detail?

Thanks,
klarix

And just how would they know which result was the right one?

They don't. All they are looking at is whether several machines turn in similar results. Thus considering the science 'valid'.

Similar results?
What if all other results are "Client error"? Then 5 hours cpu time will result in 0.00 credits. See here or here. Seems to me somewhat inequitable and not reasoned.

Second question: How is the "Recent average credit" calculated? Is there a link one can read about in detail?

Thanks,
klarix

I agree Client errors are boinc software problems... Why should we be penalized by getting no credit for contribution of cpu time when it's the fault of their
programs not working properly.

As it is the credit you receive is based on the results submitted on the work unit by others. If everyone else had a faster computer you get credit based
on their cpu time. It's Tough shit if it took your computer twice as long.

Boinc has NOT been thought out well & as for testing ...Well I guess half a day is enough of a test before it's released.

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As it is the credit you receive is based on the results submitted on the work unit by others. If everyone else had a faster computer you get credit based
on their cpu time. It's Tough shit if it took your computer twice as long.

The credit works off benchmarks, which run when BOINC starts up and every so often after that. These benchmarks characterize how fast your computer is, so if it's twice as fast as another computer, you'll get twice as much credit for the same computing time. However, benchmarks can't perfectly characterize how fast your computer will run SETI (nothing can), the resulting credit calculations aren't perfect, so BOINC takes an average or median of the credit claimed by everyone who did the same WU, which should be fairly accurate.

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Here's an Installation Guide.
Try the Wiki for other questions.