no work from project AGAIN!!!

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Profile Christopher Hauber
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Message 10725 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 13:16:26 UTC - in response to Message 10528.  

First, where do you get pirates@home? That project actually sounds interesting to me and I would at least like to have more information about it even if I don't join up.

The BOINC developers may ahve jumped the gun a little, maybe not. However, I don't know the exact details, but if I understand correctly, the beta was essentially "leaked" beyond the people who were supposed to be testing it that problem was severe enough that it botched their estimates for actual release. So in some sense, I think they might have had a little pressure on that end to go ahead and make it officially public. Additionally, it has been a good way to find out where all of the weaknesses and bugs are, and even more obscure bugs have been found and pointed out, allowing them to now be fixed at the earliest possible time (based on priority obviously).

Just because people want more work units than they can provide doesn't mean always mean there is something wrong. It has been stated many times that there is and will continue to be a finite amount of data to process. As more recievers are added to the project, it will be easier to meet those demands, but the fact still remains that there will be times when there simply ISN'T enough work. Period. That will be especially true as the number of people processing SETI increases and as the power and number of those computers increases with it. It's just something we have to live with and accept. If we want our computers to do something when there is no data to crunch, then there are other projects as well as personal projects that can be done. I myself do occasional video editing/compression (when I have the time to prepare the files for compression) and 3D Renderings (again when I have the time to work on the images). And perhaps I will participate in the pirates/einstein@home project now that it exists.

Chris

> I to am upset that there is no work available.
> I now have the Pirates@Home project added. But it doesn't have any work
> available either.
>
>
> I think BOINC people might of jumped the gun on letting this out. If they
> can't keep up with the work load demands of the people that have signed up to
> use it. There is something wrong. I don't really think it is software related.
> But server related ?
>
> If anything, is there other projects out there that my computer can be
> running.. If so post links to the sites. Not just names....

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Profile Christopher Hauber
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Message 10728 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 13:20:19 UTC - in response to Message 10635.  

I think that somewhere I saw that workunits at least will be distributed to various computers partially based on how powerful they are. That way the high end computers handle larger more complex units, and slower computers can handle smaller simpler units. Correct me if I'm wrong, I just think I remember something along those lines.

Chris

> Make the work units bigger. Take longer to process so less connetions.
> Im not saying make it 200 hour units on a p4 3gig but slightly increase the
> work unit size for more processing.
> Unless theres a problem with bandwidth.
>
> Did we bring across all the Seti@home backend equipment ??
> Shouldnt be this low on units?
>
> Although 2.7mil in units already compared to 6mil for all of last project is
> scary. :)
>
>
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Message 10730 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 13:24:01 UTC

Here is the link for Pirates@home, http://pirates.vassar.edu/

Keep in mind that this is a real alpha phase of the Einstein@home project. So, expect even less stability, up-time and work from this one. But, with SETI, Predictor and now Pirates I should get work some times!!!

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Profile Bob Chr. Laryea
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Message 10744 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:12:24 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2004, 14:14:38 UTC

Hi again.

Even though i just complained about this project, i'm here to stay, but get time to time i bit excited. I have toruble waiting, hey but thats me :-D
What can i say. " No body is perfect"

By the way, i just joined pirates@Home, hmm hmm, by that i mean i'll join when server gets stable.

Marcin Radzikowski, Thank you for telling about it in this thread ;-)

<font face="comic sans ms">THE CRUNCHER'S CORNER !!!</font>

<font face="comic sans ms">Who's Your Daddy?</font>
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Profile Christopher Hauber
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Message 10749 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:23:14 UTC - in response to Message 10671.  

I don't like replying in this format, but whatever I have to do to...


> VERY poor example. How many Space Shuttles DISASTERS have we had since
> it's introduction?


2 shuttle disasters. 113 flights or thereabouts. Pretty good rate. A little greater than just short of a 2% disaster rate. But it did have a couple of disasters and I'm sure it had a great many other problems as any complex system that undergo high levels of stress, whether it be physical stress, or computer system stress But the reliabilities of those two space "vehicles" wasn't really the point now was it? The point is complexity. Sputnik was a simple tiny little metal "ball" that beeped and eventually fell and burned up (I believe anyway). The shuttle takes a full crew, plus cargo, scientific equipment, etc. It's complex designed to do many things. Analogy stands pretty firm in my book.

> Well, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that means the software is
> FREE to the end user.


Thank you. I'm sure we all knew that, but thank you for reminding any of us who forgot. Now, if you are one of those major sponsors that has been providing massive funding in the form of hardware and/or money and/or programming expertise, then sure, you have more right to complain. But you haven't really done anything except offer computer processing time. Maybe you've joined the Planetary Society (which IS the type of sponsor that has the right to expect certain things from the project, but their complaints would be on an ENTIRELY different level of professionalism than anything you have ever demonstrated) or made a small personal donation, but that doesn't really give you the right to EXPECT anything from them.

> Well, I won't call you a liar to your face, just ask you to provide some
> proof and ask you why an adult can't stop utilizing softtware if they want to.
> It's not crack and it's not physically addictive.


Yet you treat the workunits as if they were crack. You seem to have one of the worst cases of workunit withdrawal I have ever seen. Maybe you should see a doctor for that?

> That's YOUR opinion. I droped BOINC in 24hours because it STOPPED my SETI
> WU processing in it's tracks. Effectivly "breaking" the game.


Software crunches data. Server up until yesterday seemed to be doing a good job at providing data, with the exception of the first few days of official public release. Project may be down right now, but all of my computers are still crunching. Game's not broken. You just split at the first sign of trouble.

> Mine WAS NOT down. In fact, I have not talked to ONE PERSON who was unable
> to get WU's this weekend with SETI classic. You are full of s**t on this one,
> buddy.


I don't use SETI Classic anymore so I didn't experience this. But apparently you haven't been reading like I suggested. I have seen a number of people mention that Classic was down just as general comments made in passing. This is the BOINC site though, you don't really expect everyone to announce and complain that classic is down here do you? Even so, I saw enough mention of it for me to believe that it was down. I've seen it go down many times myself. Difference is, Classic never "told" me it was down, it just wouldn't connect. I'm inclined to think that either you don't know what you are talking about, or you had Classic cached and never noticed the outage. Either way, I don't think you need to be telling him his bathroom business when I have yet to see you make one good point.

> In Louisiana, they say it's not the heat, but the humidity. But you know
> what, it's still hot as hell outside.....meaning I don't care what you blame
> the problem on, BOINC doesn't get the SETI job done.


Yea. They say that in Missouri too. Get used to it. I have. And if BOINC didn't do the SETI job, I might agree with you. But it's been doing it for me and lots of others. Look at the top thousand users page if you don't believe me.

> SURE, if it's NOT broken, don't try to fix it. SETI classic is STILL
> working like a charm


Classic doesn't always work like a charm, although at this moment it is working a little better for some than BOINC. There are things that are broken and need to be fixed. I don't think there is anyone here who would say otherwise. But for the most part, those things that are broken are at the very least patched, and most of us have been processing data, and many of us probably still are. And if you really like reprocessing reprocessed workunits that have been reprocessed several other times with no real control structure tracking how many people process the data, then fine. Kind of surprising for someone who claimes to be "militant" about "finding aliens" to not want to process newer data and get through the data faster, but you do what you want. Just don't come whining to us saying how bad it is and how much you hate it. That doesn't solve anything. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. A lot of the people on here who post answer questions and help people with real problems they are having, either by explaining the situation or giving specific instructions. Others ask questions which I'm sure other people read and find helpful as well. You don't do either. As far as I can tell, you do nothing but bicker and complain.

> LAF, if you bothered to read the entire topic you'd see I AM NO LONGER
> RUNNING THAT PIECE OF CRAP. SETI classic WORKS, plain and simple.


We have read it. Have you? You can't make a valid point. And you keep making the same invalid points. You like Classic, keep using it. But quit griping about it.

> I completely understand, I just hope I'm dead or someone works the bugs
> out before the change takes place, because as long as the problems exist, I'm
> not switching.


You really don't understand do you? (You aren't supposed to answer that if you couldn't tell.)

> "It Seems that all this SUCK's Big time. I can not get new Wu's, it keeps
> deferring with project. NO FU..... WU's"
>
> I know the feeling, buddy. Try SETI classic, IT WORKS

One last time, BOINC works too, although not perfectly yet. Using BOINC helps them find and fix problems. But if you don't want to use BOINC yet, it has been made perfectly clear by the folks at SETI@Home that is perfectly fine to do so until they turn it off, so knock yourself out.

Chris
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Profile Christopher Hauber
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Message 10751 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:29:24 UTC - in response to Message 10730.  

Hey thanks. That was a quick response. :) I saw somewhere that it was for Einstein@home and I read a bit on that project. Sparked some interest for me. I don't know that I will do it or not, I really want to read more about it for now. If BOINC runs out of data to process before the servers are back up again then perhaps.

Chris

> Here is the link for Pirates@home, http://pirates.vassar.edu/
>
> Keep in mind that this is a real alpha phase of the Einstein@home project.
> So, expect even less stability, up-time and work from this one. But, with
> SETI, Predictor and now Pirates I should get work some times!!!
>
>
>
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Message 10754 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:39:06 UTC

Where is Guido ?
Grrr Never there when we need him !
Please Guido post us a funny and relaxing picture.
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Message 10756 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:42:26 UTC - in response to Message 10749.  

> Using BOINC helps them find and fix problems.

*LOL*
I thought that was/is the intension of the BOINC Beta project?! ;-)
Isn't it?

Greetings
Stefan
</IMG>
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Profile Darth Dogbytes™
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Message 10765 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:52:02 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2004, 14:56:22 UTC

I don't like reposting for those who don't go through the threads for info, but here goes....

OK, here it is in a nut shell. The equipment currently allocated for the Boinc release is just a small portion of the hardware available. The bulk of the hardware is still tied up running S@H1. The original release of the Boinc client to the public was supposed to be a phased in operation. However, some eager beaver let the cat out of the bag by releasing the startup site URL. Some decisions had to be made and it was decided to finally give it a go while the tidal wave was approaching. Unfortunately the available hardware was not yet optimized to run so many hosts, and with more and more hosts trying to come on line, it has become a constant game of catch up. The obvious solution would be to shut down S@H1 and divert all that hardware to Boinc. This however would leave a mass of hosts at the old site in the lurch.

To make a long story short, it is going to be a rough road for little while, until compromises can be worked in and the full transition made. Patience is going to be needed. The systems will constantly be needing adjustment which means that it will be going down and coming back up again rather frequently for some time. Eventually, with all the available hardware on line at Boinc and optimized, the situation will radically improve. It will just take some time.

P.S. Don't ask anyone how long it will take, we do not have the ability to see into the future.

P.P.S. You can bet your last dollar that some mistakes will be made, but until you can establish your godhead and prove that you can walk on water, keep the critical comments civilized and to a minium unless you can provide proof of your own perfection.

P.P.P.S. If you want real hard Dev info, just look for Rom Walton's posts. He's been posting all over the place. http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/show_user.php?userid=85465

Boinc ALPHA/BETA Tester
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Petit Soleil
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Message 10766 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:52:29 UTC

I know it's off topic but could someone please tell me what "lol" mean ?
I am not a big chat and furum user and I have been trying to guess in the
last hour.

List of Lego
lots of legs
Lemon over lime
Lycy or lucile
Lots of liars
?????????

Thanks
Marc

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Message 10768 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:53:24 UTC - in response to Message 10766.  

> I know it's off topic but could someone please tell me what "lol" mean ?
> I am not a big chat and furum user and I have been trying to guess in the
> last hour.
>
> List of Lego
> lots of legs
> Lemon over lime
> Lycy or lucile
> Lots of liars
> ?????????
>
> Thanks
> Marc
>
>
>
Laughing Out Loud

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Message 10769 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 14:55:02 UTC - in response to Message 10768.  

> > I know it's off topic but could someone please tell me what "lol" mean ?
> > I am not a big chat and furum user and I have been trying to guess in
> the
> > last hour.
> >
> > List of Lego
> > lots of legs
> > Lemon over lime
> > Lycy or lucile
> > Lots of liars
> > ?????????
> >
> > Thanks
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> Laughing Out Loud
>
<a> href='http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=112969'>
>

Thanks
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Profile Bob Chr. Laryea
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Message 10780 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 15:11:05 UTC

OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ToPic:
Wouldn't it be nice iff the project is being reset, when everything works :s? i do not feel this as being fair when competing :D

<font face="comic sans ms">THE CRUNCHER'S CORNER !!!</font>

<font face="comic sans ms">Who's Your Daddy?</font>
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Message 10805 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 15:56:00 UTC

Racing Post Free Tips is correct when he/she states that a 'multi-project attitude' is required under BOINC. While the current woes of BOINC/S@H are due to lack of hardware capacity, when S@H-Classic goes dark and BOINC/S@H takes over the NICE hardware there will be another issue.

S@H-Classic kept up with demand for work units by issueing the same work unit to a LOT of people (5, maybe 10 or more). Not so with BOINC/S@H. BOINC/S@H will issue a work unit to only 3 people to start and will only issue it to more people if there are problems such as mismatches in verification or overdue (past the 2 week deadline) work units. As such, (at least until they can get more data sources such as Parkes) they WILL run out of work units for BOINC/S@H. The demand will just be too great.

One of the advantages of the BOINC platform is that a user can attatch their computers to more than one project, and specify those projects' relative priority. If one project is out of work, the BOINC client will fetch from the other(s). Futhermore, provision is made in the BOINC XML dumps for the 3rd party stats sites to COMBINE stats over all the projects. No matter WHAT project(s) you run, the totals of your stats will be available for comparasion with all the other BOINC 'users'.

There ARE NOW other BOINC projects up and running, with several others in the design stages...

Predictor@Home - Protien folding project, currently in alpha test - http://predictor.scripps.edu Scripps is also rumored to be planning to move some of their OTHER projects over to BOINC, possibly by end of year.

Pirates@Home - currently in alpha test. The testbed for designing the Einstein@Home project. - http://pirates.vassar.edu

Einstein@Home - eventual project to analyze the data from the LIGO gravational wave experiments... see Pirates@Home

Astropulse - A different analysis of old Seti@Home data looking for other signal types... currently on development hiatus, but rumored to be starting up again soon.

Climateprediction.net - Beta test of BOINC version due to commence sometime soon (a month or 2 ago, was said to be planned for July 2004). In ACTIVE development. Climate modeling to predict effects such as global warming...
http://www.climateprediction.net

Folding@Home - often (over last year or so) rumored to be working on a BOINC version, but I havent heard much about it of late. Protien folding. http://folding.stanford.edu/

I'm sure that I have missed some, but the point is that one has a choice NOW (and soon will have an even greater choice) of projects to run under BOINC. If one is out of work or otherwise down at the moment, there are other worthwhile projects that won't be. If, however, your interest is to ONLY run Seti@Home, you must be prepared for LONG stretches of no work available... The S@H staff at Berkeley long ago realized that they would not be able to keep up with demand for work units from just the Arecibo feed. On the S@H-Classic project, they chose to apply a band-aid of excessive redundant processing of work, effectively turning much of that project into 'busy-work'. They then designed BOINC as a more permenant solution to the problem. There just isn't enough S@H work to go around. This is why BOINC has 'multi-project' capability, and in fact is one of the MAIN reasons BOINC was developed in the first place.

So, PLEASE, people, stop your whineing and get realistic. The Seti@home-Classic era is drawing to a close. If you want to run Seti@Home once the S@H-Classic project gets turned off (another month or two most likely, almost certainly by the end of the year), you will NEED to use the BOINC framework to do so. And, if you want to keep your computer(s) busy, you will need to run multiple projects. The S@H staff at Berkeley, and the other BOINC developers, have been hard at work over the last 1.5+ years... Designing and codeing BOINC. They deserve a big round of thanks, not the acidic whineing that some of you are giving them. Chill out, and be patient.
------------
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Message 10840 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 18:12:49 UTC
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Message 10841 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 18:14:41 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2004, 19:36:09 UTC

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Message 10842 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 18:16:50 UTC

BrainButtr,

I think MajorKong has answered all your questions quite nicely. Run Classic to your heart's content. It'll be gone eventually, working or not. It sounds like, despite all the investment you are putting into the black hole that Classic is, it is all for naught. For "free" software, you sure are putting quite a bit of your time and effort (read expense here!) into it.

I'm sure there won't be too many people upset to know that you won't be running the lousy BOINC software. So, farewell and Godspeed. Don't bother yourself by looking over your shoulder, you'll find no one following.
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Message 10909 - Posted: 21 Jul 2004, 23:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 10644.  

> > Praise BOINC all you like, but let's look at the facts.
> >
> >
>
> [ranting removed]
>
> Someone got a gun pointing to your head making you run Boinc?
>
> No.
>
> Dont like it? Bugger off elsewhere and stop moaning.
>

Tel me richard smith - how is it you manage to get an average of 5439.51 WUs a day to do and poor bugger me has just had two days with nothing??

Why are you getting special treatment?? What makes you better than the rest of us??

Methinks Berkeley should limit the WUs going to the likes of you, just so that the other five million or so can get something to do.

Sixty seven computers under your name - must be a pretty little rich boy eh?
And all get work.

I can only afford one PC./ And I get no work.

Viva la revolution!!
the man from the land down under
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Message 10959 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 1:40:06 UTC

There is no F***ING special treatment for anybody.

I helped write parts of the dang system and I can't get any workunits. shesh.

----- Rom
BOINC Development Team, U.C. Berkeley
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Message 10982 - Posted: 22 Jul 2004, 2:03:15 UTC - in response to Message 10959.  

> There is no F***ING special treatment for anybody.
>
> I helped write parts of the dang system and I can't get any workunits.
> shesh.
>
> ----- Rom
> BOINC Development Team, U.C. Berkeley
>
>

But there is a definitve advance to those who knew to pump up there cache size to be 1-2 weeks!

For most with 1-2 days in preference, might get a single WU in 1-2 days it seems. For those with large caches, they can keep crunching while only getting a few Wu's during the "down days".

The "work" is there, it's just sitting in some cache that won't get touched for days, while the "normal" users watch "no Work from Project" repeat every hour or so

I myself have have kept my caches at a day or so..(which sometimes give me 12-15 hours of work) If there's work when I leave work, there will be crunching happening when I return, not a machine that's been counting it's bits for 8 hours!

Of course, we could all just ask for 10-14 days of work in our preference, but that just isn't the right thing to do considering that it would only be "stealing air from a drownding man"!
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