sv,

that must be an assumption someone else ventured...

nothing that I claimed....

---

Howdy Doody Paul,

Welcome to Cafe de la Seti. The only place where the trolls 'give you' the weapons to shoot them :)

Its been a turbulent time of late and as a fair recent bod' myself I did wonder whether I had caused all the rumpous as it started when I walked in the door... or was that when I walked 'into' the dooor...

> I'm just technologically literate enough to be paranoid about the security of
> my machines if I 'link' up.

All I can add is that on my 1.3Gig Athlon home_made BOINC runs great all the time. It was on XP until yesterday when like a plonker (fool) I somehow overwrote the boot sector of my PC with that of a different hard disk.. Now I'm running back in the stone ages on WinME... BOINC still runs easy and without problems.

I use a router for security (though routers are very leaky) and haven't had a problem.

That's it. I would say have a go. Ver 4.13 is the current release though I'm running 4.14 with no probs.

Welcome to the mixing pot. Have fun and if you meet our seemingly resident nutter of HumanBlights use some magitastic confabulations or just run for the hills and all shall be well..

Regards n welcome

cRunchy

> Hi Paul glad to see you back!
>
> As far as security I am sure someone will
> expain it better than me, But I can assure you
> you Units are safe and secure, I personally hide my puters
> but that is my choice. I am not worried about people doing
> something malicious, It's a personal thing. Your IP number
> only shows in your accout the outside world cannot see them.
>
>
> I hope this helps! let me know if I don't know then we will
> find someone who will! Glad to have you on board!
>
>
> Timmy
> Spelling doesn't count!
>

"Questions and Problems" is were he needs to go for help, not here.

L8R....

---

My Time: Saturday, 15 January 2005 - 06:26 PM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

> I'll come back when I can spend a little time and hopefully, someone will
> still have some pity on my lack of savy in the tech dept.
>
> for now thanks to ca and cw

There are some very techno-savvy folks here, but there are often a greater number of them in the Number Crunching and Questions & Answers forums. The Cafe Seti is mainly for general discussions, stories, etc. In fact, many who contribute here also contribute in the technical forums.

---

PZ-
Please excuse the paranoia evident in some responses as there has recently been some unsavory activity hereabouts that you needn't explore- hopefully it's been properly addressed and will diminish if not cease.
Once set up, the process of of BOINC/SETI has jumped through alot of hoops in recent months and is now running without any hangups that I'm aware of.
When you have an hour to spare, go the the download page and follow the directions to get going with it.
If you have any questions - feel free as there are experts here who have it under their fingers and are quick to explain what you need without a technical rodeo.
Looking foward to your point of view on these boards as I have have for the years we've known...cc

>
> > thanks, in advance....
> >
>
> The number crunching program is isolated to your system and only your system.
> Whatever computer you use connects to the Servers that store the available
> WU's(Work Units). The download to your system is initated by your system.
>
> Seti@HOME or BOINC will not leave your system open to vicious attacks. Five
> of the systems I run SETI@HOME on sit behind a Cisco PIX Firewall and I didn't
> have to punch a hole through that firewall to alloow SETI to work. If you
> look at the IP addresses that are assigned to my systems you will see that
> they are all non-routerable IP's. IP addresses in the 10.x.x.x block are in
> the Class A private network block. IP addresses in the 192.168.x.x are in the
> Class C private block.
>
> Being a Network Engineer of decent standing in the Network Community I would
> not allow those addresses to be shown if I did not make sure that my systems
> were safe.
>
> One of the systems SETi@HOME runs on is my Web Server and it barely knows it's
> running..
>
> I hope that answers your question..
>
>


Unfortunately the only one that can see your IP's is you. They are not viewable by the general populous. (Ignore this bit per CW's edit)...

And welcome to the cafe Paul!

>
>
> Unfortunately the only one that can see your IP's is you. They are not
> viewable by the general populous.
>

Whoops typo I left out a word.. I corrected it..

---

I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

I really shant be able to express myself properly, to the extent that I should, for all that comes to mind as triggered by some of your responses.


To those who offered welcome and assistance, thanks, I am feeling a fair bit welcome and am somewhat reassured about the process and it's 'safety'.

For those with concerns about whether 'I'm where I ought to be..... ",

you should know that is a type of attention I have a knack for generating and it's an inherent quality I have always displayed, but where I am counts for much less than what I'm doing. I quickly get lost in the tech stuff and so decided to come here instead, looking for a 'sense' of things rather than the specifics, since it's doubtful I would understand the specifics, let alone retain them. So pardon me, if you don't care to deal with a newcomer, go commiserate amongst other ilk about whatever it is you think is paramount, unless your screen looks different than mine, you had to click something to see me 'speak' in the first place and this request on this thread won't impinge on your much more pressing issues I see displayed on the menu.

I don't even drink coffee, so I'm really no threat to any of you.


It's my real name up there, I started with a stage name of Freeper, ...some of you will understand the irony, some won't. But I decided that not enough of you were going to get past it, so I went with my real name. (I always 'register' freeper if it hasn't been taken, just to 'liberate' it from the 101rst Fighting Keyboarders)

I'm not the only one to have the given name of Paul Zimmerman and if I'm confused with some other luminary of the same name, too bad, it's as much a hassle for me as it could be for him. In any case, I am not to be confused with any previous Paul Zimmerman who may have participated in a Seti process. Like I said, "I'm new here."


From what I gather so far, the only time my machine is in any danger of receiving any kind of 'glitch', or deliberate hack, is while downloading the mythical work unit.

It's those possible glitches that concern me as much as a deliberate hack.

I use an unconnected machine for recording personal data, finances, taxes, etc, so I don't think I have something of value for anyone to go looking for and I never connect that other 'personal' computer to a phone line.... ever. If one wants to 'hack' into this machine to read my various rants, or watch my movies, it's probably easier to just ask. My worry stems from the fact that if this machine were to experience problems, it's likely I would not be able to fix it myself. I'm concerned about losing data and the use of the machine.


Anyway, the download 'window' of time is my concern too, right? That is the time I would have concerns and I feel it would be heightened in my case because of the unreliable and slow download time on my connection. I usually have to try to download updated software patches two or three times before being successful. (you see, the antiquated phone lines here just aren't conducive to a very 'clean' conduit.)

I frequently 'drop off' the connection. If it's a large file I'm trying to download, it can be quite the endeavor, what with setting it up to run each night until it finally stays connected long enough to be successful. (you with better and more efficient means to swap data should reflect daily on those less fortunate)

I make a lot of movies and that's memory intensive. I have some concerns about competition for memory but I don't know enough to know if that's a 'real' concern. I do have some additional hard drives gang connected to my machine.... is it necessary or recommended to 'unmount' and disconnect that kind of thing while downloading the work units or doing the 'crunching'?

Is there a minimum expectation? Can you start small and work your way up?

You know what they say about there not being any dumb questions?

What, do you think the dummies just get instances of inpired intelligence right before asking a question, immediately losing the same whilst awaiting the answer?

So if it's not too much trouble for someone, I don't need or expect to be taught to understand all the technical stuff, just take pity on an old man and soothe a few of his fears

........Or try to scare the hell out of me, I can appreciate either response. How big is this WU anyway? Can you take em on one on one or do they come at you all in rush?

almost forgot, this machine is an Apple G4.... if that matters.

thanks again,

pz

---

Don't worry 'bout it. I don't think that we were ready to deal with trolls and spammers to begin with, let alone the massive immigration of SETI "Classic" users! It's all cool.

Anyway, the download 'window' of time is my concern too, right?
The BOINC client preferences can be set as you'd like it. My ISP in Chile had lousy daytime connections, but around 1AM to 3AM was the only time I could get a full 33.6Kb/s. You might be experiencing a dirty/noisy line, or it could be that there's simply too much traffic. Try adjusting the General Preferences until you're satisfied.

I frequently 'drop off' the connection. If it's a large file I'm trying to download, it can be quite the endeavor...
I remember waiting over an hour for a program to load off of a cassette, so I know that frustration intimately.

I make a lot of movies and that's memory intensive. I have some concerns about competition for memory but I don't know enough to know if that's a 'real' concern.
I'd say yes. The only times I kill the BOINC client is when I'm video editing, rendering a 3D model, testing a compiled app, or on battery. Photoshop, Final Cut, and Infini-D don't seem to take much of a hit, but I'd rather let FC and I-D get the full processor.

I do have some additional hard drives gang connected to my machine.... is it necessary or recommended to 'unmount' and disconnect that kind of thing while downloading the work units or doing the 'crunching'?
That's not necessary, and I doubt it would even be beneficial.


Is there a minimum expectation? Can you start small and work your way up?
I haven't been able to figure that out. Since I've got an always-on connection (though it does blink out now and again) I set my "Connect to server" setting to every 5 minutes. Theoretically it should send 5 minute's worth of work, but all my WUs take six hours.

You know what they say about there not being any dumb questions?
Answers, 5¢. Good answers, 10¢. Answers that require though, 25¢. Dumb looks are still free.

What, do you think the dummies just get instances of inpired intelligence right before asking a question, immediately losing the same whilst awaiting the answer?
.o0(Hope I don't fall into the dummy category...)

So if it's not too much trouble for someone, I don't need or expect to be taught to understand all the technical stuff, just take pity on an old man and soothe a few of his fears
OK. You can't harm your computer.

........Or try to scare the hell out of me, I can appreciate either response.
OK... you could harm your computer if you take a sladgehammer to it, but I've never seen that actually being done. Honestly, there's nothing to fear but fear itself, and that's all you need to know about computers in general.

SETI/BOINC is kinda technical, but it's quite honestly foolproof. It's "user manual" is pretty lousy, but that's why we're here (amongst other reasons).


How big is this WU anyway?
Roughly 384KB, or 3/8 of a MB. Over a 33.6Kb/s modem, it'll take about a minute and a half to download.

Can you take em on one on one or do they come at you all in rush?
It depends on how often you want to connect to the servers. If you ask for a large amount of time between network connections, you'll get a large number of WUs. I like to keep one WU at a time - I cause a lot of crashes and I'd rather lose one or two WUs instead of a gazillion...

almost forgot, this machine is an Apple G4.... if that matters.
 :-)

---

Hi Paul,
I will try to answer you tomorrow, I need sleep!

Email me if you would like!


Timmy

---

thanks tim,

na,

I can choose to download one WU at a time, and it's only a few hundred k per WU?

Is it the 'crunching' that takes 6 hrs? Is it the 'crunching' I'd want to kill while using my memory intensive programs?

What do you mean by killing the boinc client, is that the 'crunching'? That's not reliant on being logged on, right? I can turn the crunching off and on at my whim? That doesn't defeat what you're attempting, it will pick up where it left off ? start over?

I was referring to twenty or thirty meg files and larger not hardly ever downloading on my machine, I'm confident that I can stay connected long enough for 5 or 10 megs at a shot even if I have to try more than once. 1 meg or less?, usually no problem.

Is it a problem if I do drop off while downloading? or do I just try try again.

I've got like a 20 some meg recommended java upgrade that will probably be revised or replaced before I can download it. I've tried to download that one many times and have not been successful yet. .....that's what my fears were based on.

If my 2yr old grandson can lock up a computer, I assure you I am capable of doing something to disable or harm one too.

---

> Dr. Bob your not funny!

Hope you're joking, Tim. It was just late-night silliness. :-/

---

> I can choose to download one WU at a time, and it's only a few hundred k per
> WU?

On my connection when I set my 'Connect to network about every' 'X' days to '0.1' I get only one WU to crunch. If I set it to '0.5' I get 4 WU's to crunch (one at a time.)

> Is it the 'crunching' that takes 6 hrs? Is it the 'crunching' I'd want to
> kill while using my memory intensive programs?

I generally see no problems on my computer when doing labour intensive tasks. I can watch a divx movie for example with no problems. BOINC plays nice and its priority is set below normal which means most other apps simply have priority on the CPU.

> ....I can turn the crunching off and on at my whim?

Yes.

> Is it a problem if I do drop off while downloading? or do I just try try
> again.

Not sure if WU's or BOINC have resume download?

> I've got like a 20 some meg recommended java upgrade that will probably be
> revised or replaced before I can download it. I've tried to download that
> one many times and have not been successful yet. .....that's what my fears
> were based on.

Sounds like you could do with a download manager that has 'resume' capabilities.. I like FlashGet: www.amazesoft.com

> If my 2yr old grandson can lock up a computer, I assure you I am capable of
> doing something to disable or harm one too.

Read my other thread 'XP experts'.. I have killed a lot of computers in my time but I was suprised by BOINC. It works well.

cRunchy

I can choose to download one WU at a time, and it's only a few hundred k per WU?
Essentially, yes. The assumption is that if you've got a computer that connects once a day, you'll send one day's worth of WUs, which I've never seen larger than 384KB, and never less than 320KB.

As with any advice here, your mileage will vary.

Is it the 'crunching' that takes 6 hrs? Is it the 'crunching' I'd want to kill while using my memory intensive programs?
On my machine (TiBook 15" 867MHz) it takes six hours, and it's the crunching that I kill when I need the CPU.

What do you mean by killing the boinc client, is that the 'crunching'?
Not exactly [Unreliable Tecchie-Babble Warning] BOINC controls other projects like SETI, Einstein@home, Climate Prediction, which do their respective crunching. Think of it as a foreman and a bunch of workers - The foreman (BOINC) passes the "Get to work", "Here's new work for you", and "Go home for the night" messages to the workers (SETI, E@H, CP)

(If anyone spots en error there, point it out ASAP!)

That's not reliant on being logged on, right?
Once the workunit is downloaded, you can unplug the modem - It's all taking place on your computer from then on.

I can turn the crunching off and on at my whim? That doesn't defeat what you're attempting, it will pick up where it left off ? start over?
I tend to kill the BOINC client and not the project client. It will pick up where it left off when killed. Don't forget that OS X has its own coordination, so if one app ("A") needs more CPU than another ("B"), OS X will allocate more processing time to "A" instead of "B".

I was referring to twenty or thirty meg files and larger not hardly ever downloading on my machine, I'm confident that I can stay connected long enough for 5 or 10 megs at a shot even if I have to try more than once. 1 meg or less?, usually no problem.
Is it a problem if I do drop off while downloading? or do I just try try again.
Much less than a MB. If you're set to have ten day's worth of WUs, though... (384KB/WU * 2.5WU/Day * 10 Days) ...it can add up. BOINC is "smart" enough to understand when a connection has had a conniption - It will retry for you.

I've got like a 20 some meg recommended java upgrade that will probably be revised or replaced before I can download it. I've tried to download that one many times and have not been successful yet. .....that's what my fears were based on.
Lemme guess... Java 1.4.2 Update 2?

I don't think there'll be any problem. As far as I can tell, BOINC's communications "system" was designed for unreliable networks - Don't worry.

If my 2yr old grandson can lock up a computer, I assure you I am capable of doing something to disable or harm one too.
Ow! [picking up jaw from floor] Err... well... uhm... OK, you've got me beat there. My crashes are usually the "Let's put a 0 where there's supposed to be a 1 and see what happens" type. Even during a crash like that, BOINC (and several other apps) "know" how to recover.

---

crunchy and na,

thanks very much, I'm still a little confused on a couple of points but will digest this for now and try again another day.

I'm tending towards following through, even if I just try to put one of the 5 machines laying around here on some kind of dedicated service.

really, thanks.

---

> crunchy and na,
>
> thanks very much, I'm still a little confused on a couple of points but will
> digest this for now and try again another day.
>
> I'm tending towards following through, even if I just try to put one of the 5
> machines laying around here on some kind of dedicated service.
>
> really, thanks.
>

The initial download will be a bit larger as it includes the science executables with the first WU. These take up to a few MB depending on the project, and are updated occasionally (less frequently than they were during early testing).

---

BOINC WIKI

> I'm here because I was looking for intelligent life.
>
> Am I in the wrong place?
>

I don't know? It depends on what you define as intelligent life! But it seems a bit weird to me, not to sound suspicious or anything after the past times events, that you want to debate things here! Here we gather because we all (usually!) participate in a project, where we donate our processor power to process data for the Seti BOINC project! So we usually have computers connected to our accounts! And I don't see any computers connected to your account!

So what are you doing here??? Looking for a rostrum for your ideas and a place to polish your debate skills? If you don't participate in the Seti BOINC project, what are your purpose for posting here???? There are many other places on the 'net to discuss and debate things, so why here???

Just wonder!

---

> > I'm here because I was looking for intelligent life.
> >
> > Am I in the wrong place?
> >
>
> I don't know? It depends on what you define as intelligent life! But it seems
> a bit weird to me, not to sound suspicious or anything after the past times
> events, that you want to debate things here! Here we gather because we all
> (usually!) participate in a project, where we donate our processor power to
> process data for the Seti BOINC project! So we usually have computers
> connected to our accounts! And I don't see any computers connected to your
> account!
>
> So what are you doing here??? Looking for a rostrum for your ideas and
> a place to polish your debate skills? If you don't participate in the Seti
> BOINC project, what are your purpose for posting here???? There are many other
> places on the 'net to discuss and debate things, so why here???
>
> Just wonder!

He's having a bit of a problem with his Mac (I don't think he means a raincoat). You can read about it here.

Time at Cas's Place: Thu 20 January 2005, 14:17:14 (GMT Standard Time)


>

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<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=285"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/cas1701/v_twin.gif">

<a href="http://www.makepovertyhistory.org"><b>MAKE</b>POVERTY<b>HISTORY</b></a>

>
> He's having a bit of a problem with his Mac (I don't think he means a
> raincoat). You can read about it <a> href="http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=10859">here[/url].
>


Yeah Ok, but I'm still puzzled about a person who posts so much and so long, and not having a computer attached! We have seen that before, haven't we?

I remember when I started here, I had the software downloaded, got started crunching and first then started to look at the boards! And I mostly looked in Number crunching until I got tired of all the "What's wrong with this WU?" and "Where's my credit?"! And after the events lately here, I'm very suspicious to people who comes, opens an account and start posting on the board, especially the Cafe Seti board!

But, luckily we have got the ignore function, so I can introduce people to Mr. Ignore!

BTW: Where can I get a cool TFFE sig????

---

Try these at the TFFE homesite, Lena.

As for mistrusting people, let's not go there again. We just lost the main culprits, even if it meant that more of us are now reported to the FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, ATF and more acronyms, plus Danish Police. ;)

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