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Keeping your rig running: UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supplies), Power Conditioners etc.
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Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
How likely is it for whatever circuit is used to keep things running, off the battery during a power outage, to go bad? Any ideas? That's what I think is wrong with this UPS. Well your upower output says it can support the load for 1 hour. Was that taken with your BOINC load running or just idling in the desktop? You want to run the upower command while you are crunching to get a good idea of how long the UPS can hold up your load. My upower command shows time to empty: 10.4 minutes for my BOINC load. That is on my SMT-1500C UPS. Device: /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/ups_hiddev0 native-path: /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:08.1/0000:0d:00.3/usb9/9-4/9-4:1.0/usbmisc/hiddev0 vendor: American Power Conversion model: Smart-UPS_1500 FW:UPS 03.5 / ID=1015 serial: 3S1831X12519 power supply: yes updated: Sat 09 Nov 2019 09:37:57 AM PST (22 seconds ago) has history: yes has statistics: yes ups present: yes state: charging warning-level: none time to empty: 10.4 minutes percentage: 98% icon-name: 'battery-full-charging-symbolic' That is for a 840W or VA load. The nominal VA rating is 1500VA or 1000 watts. Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22228 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
It is far from impossible that the inverter (that's the bit of the UPS providing power when the mains is off) has failed - I've got a couple of doorstops that were UPS that suffered the inverter failing. One was a "pass-through" device, where the inverter runs all the time, supplied from the "battery charger" or battery depending on the state of the incoming mains. The other was a "stand-by inverter" where the inverter only comes to life when the mains is out. I really must find the TUIT and get them sorted out - just now I'm using a pile of deep-discharge batteries and a 3kw inverter with built-in transfer switch to do the job, it's a bit inefficient as I've only got a 500w load on it..... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Greetings, Hi Keith, Well your upower output says it can support the load for 1 hour. Was that taken with your BOINC load running or just idling in the desktop? BOINC was running when I did the upower in terminal. 1 hour does not seem correct. Your upower says 10.4 minutes until empty. The wording on the box mine came in says up to 69 minutes of runtime power. In any power outage we've had, I have never seen where it was more than maybe 10 - 15 minutes. The last few times, when still only using Winders, the Powerchute software said 4 minutes. The past couple outages, running Linux and Winders, there was no backup power. Everything went dead right away. I'll be getting a new UPS and delegating the old one as a fancy schmancy power strip. ;) Unless... upower is correct and I do have 1 hour backup time. The box does say up to 69 minutes... Perhaps there was something wrong with the old battery and Powerchute took that into account when telling me I had 4 minutes backup. [edit] When I go into Winders to play WoW, I'll check to see what Powerchute tells me with the new battery. [/edit] Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Greetings, To Keith and all that responded about my UPS, thank you! :) The good news is, Powerchute in Winders says I have 61 minutes of backup power. Bad news is, I won't need a new UPS and that battery is definitely bad. Off to the recycle shop. :) Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
The estimate of power on battery supporting the load is an estimate. You also have to calibrate the device first on a similar load as what the device is going to support to get a good and accurate estimate of time remaining. The PowerChute software has a calibration routine in its menu. Did you ever run that? I don't believe the 1 hour remaining is accurate if you say you were running your BOINC load when you ran upower. Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
The estimate of power on battery supporting the load is an estimate. You also have to calibrate the device first on a similar load as what the device is going to support to get a good and accurate estimate of time remaining. The PowerChute software has a calibration routine in its menu. Did you ever run that? I don't believe the 1 hour remaining is accurate if you say you were running your BOINC load when you ran upower. Hi Keith, I'll have to check the calibration thing tomorrow. I only go into Winders when I play World of Warcraft. I don't do anything else there. I don't remember seeing a calibration routine, by the way. I assume that the calibration will store data on the UPS? Then whatever Powerchute decides will be available for upower? With all the UPS I owned, I've never had to calibrate any of them. This one is the first one that has software to check it and stuff. [edit] Something else I just thought of. BOINC is not running on Winders, only Linux. So I doubt the calibration would be accurate for when I'm logged into Linux. [/edit] Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
Yes, you can access the UPS directly through the command line in Terminal. There is a calibration function in the command line interface menu. ups -- Initiate UPS Control ups -c <Off | GraceOff | On | Reboot |GraceReboot | Sleep | GraceSleep> -r <Start | Stop> (UPS Runtime Calibration) -s Start (UPS Selftest) -st (UPS Status) -a Start (Test UPS short alarm) Read through your documentation that came with PowerChute or go to the website and use the technical resources. There also is an alternative control program for APC UPS' that is called apcupsd. It has both Linux and Windows binaries. It is located at SourceForge. It is better supported than PowerChute on alternative platforms. https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/ Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Ianab Send message Joined: 11 Jun 08 Posts: 732 Credit: 20,635,586 RAC: 5 |
Greetings, A quick and safe test is to plug an incandescent desk lamp into the UPS. Turn it on, and then flick the power off at the wall. This will only be a ~60w or so load, and should stay on for 5-10 min at least. If it does, then your battery has "some" useful capacity, and the UPS electronics is working properly. You could use your PC for this test, but if the battery is bad, then it's like flicking it off at the wall. If your battery is bad, and the light goes out after 5 sec, nothing is broken, apart from the battery which you have now confirmed is dead. I "dumpster dived" a 1kva UPS last month that was being dumped as it had "battery fault". ~$50US for a couple of new batteries, and it seems good. Not up to the multi-GPU rigs than some folks are running, but it should backup 3 or 4 of our regular PCs and prevent those random power flicker crashes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20372 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Noooo! NOT incandescent light bulbs!!! Note that such bulbs have a very low switch-on cold resistance that requires a hefty switch-on current surge before the filament heats up to a higher resistance and the current is reduced to the nominal rated value. If your UPS is greatly multiple times overrated, then you're fine for that test but not recommended... More likely you'll correctly get a false fail. The best load test is the actual intended load. Or if you have available, an actual load resistor. A good stand in is to use a small electric heater as a load due to that resistance changing only slightly between the rated value to the cold-on value. Good luck! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Yes, you can access the UPS directly through the command line in Terminal. There is a calibration function in the command line interface menu. Hi Keith, I'm assuming the "ups" above is the program name. Correct? If so, I do not have it and I checked the repo and I did not see it there either. However, "apcupsd" is there and is installed. I have been reading up on it on the Internet, and it is mind boggling. There is a section in battery maintenance called "Soft" Runtime Calibration. The first line states: A runtime calibration causes the UPS to recalculate its available runtime capacity based on its current load.I'm assuming that as the UPS is now running with the load I have, I can run "apctest" and it will calibrate the UPS. The function "apctest" is said to do the calibration. I do not have the proper PowerChute. PowerChute + is the one with the calibration function. I don't have the + version. I'd rather not deal with anything in Winders anyway. ;) Linux to the rescue. :) This is the link to the apcupsd user manual on the Internet, and this is the link to the "Soft" Runtime Calibration section. I will await word from you on my assumptions and if this is my way to go for calibrating my UPS. :) Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
Yes, the electric heater or a kitchen toaster oven would be the appropriate load sources to test with. Though the incandescent light bulb is also a good test as long as the UPS can handle the low cold filament resistance inrush current. I use apcupsd for all my UPS command and control. As you state, it is in the repo so easy to install. You have access to apcaccess all the time for UPS status in the terminal. keith@Serenity:~$ apcaccess APC : 001,027,0661 DATE : 2019-11-10 08:26:09 -0800 HOSTNAME : Serenity VERSION : 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian UPSNAME : Serenity CABLE : USB Cable DRIVER : USB UPS Driver UPSMODE : Stand Alone STARTTIME: 2019-11-08 20:01:56 -0800 MODEL : Smart-UPS_1500 STATUS : ONLINE BCHARGE : 100.0 Percent TIMELEFT : 11.8 Minutes MBATTCHG : 5 Percent MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes MAXTIME : 0 Seconds ALARMDEL : No alarm BATTV : 26.4 Volts NUMXFERS : 0 TONBATT : 0 Seconds CUMONBATT: 0 Seconds XOFFBATT : N/A STATFLAG : 0x05000008 MANDATE : 2018-08-01 SERIALNO : 3S1831X12519 NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts FIRMWARE : UPS 03.5 / ID=1015 END APC : 2019-11-10 08:26:12 -0800 keith@Serenity:~$ But to use apctest, you have to stop the running daemon or you get an error message. keith@Serenity:~$ apctest 2019-11-10 08:27:27 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian Checking configuration ... sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled cable.type = USB Cable mode.type = USB UPS Driver apctest FATAL ERROR in apctest.c at line 313 Unable to create UPS lock file. If apcupsd or apctest is already running, please stop it and run this program again. apctest error termination completed keith@Serenity:~$ Just stop the daemon with: sudo systemctl stop apcupsd Then run apctest: sudo apctest keith@Serenity:~$ sudo apctest 2019-11-10 08:30:41 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian Checking configuration ... sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled cable.type = USB Cable mode.type = USB UPS Driver Setting up the port ... Doing prep_device() ... You are using a USB cable type, so I'm entering USB test mode Hello, this is the apcupsd Cable Test program. This part of apctest is for testing USB UPSes. Getting UPS capabilities...SUCCESS Please select the function you want to perform. 1) Test kill UPS power 2) Perform self-test 3) Read last self-test result 4) View/Change battery date 5) View manufacturing date 6) View/Change alarm behavior 7) View/Change sensitivity 8) View/Change low transfer voltage 9) View/Change high transfer voltage 10) Perform battery calibration 11) Test alarm 12) View/Change self-test interval Q) Quit Select function number: The choose option 10 for runtime calibration with your intended load running. Read the documentation for the overview of the program. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/apcupsd Then just restart the daemon after you are finished. sudo systemctl start apcupsd Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Hi Keith, The choose option 10 for runtime calibration with your intended load running. Here's what I get: rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo systemctl start apcupsd rick@Minty-Winders:~$ apcaccess APC : 001,017,0428 DATE : 2019-11-10 10:59:35 -0600 HOSTNAME : Minty-Winders VERSION : 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian CABLE : USB Cable DRIVER : USB UPS Driver UPSMODE : Stand Alone STARTTIME: 2019-11-10 10:59:25 -0600 STATUS : COMMLOST MBATTCHG : 5 Percent MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes MAXTIME : 0 Seconds NUMXFERS : 0 TONBATT : 0 Seconds CUMONBATT: 0 Seconds XOFFBATT : N/A STATFLAG : 0x05000100 END APC : 2019-11-10 11:07:13 -0600 rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo systemctl stop apcupsd rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo apctest 2019-11-10 11:11:01 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian Checking configuration ... sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled cable.type = USB Cable mode.type = USB UPS Driver Setting up the port ... apctest FATAL ERROR in apctest.c at line 321 Unable to open UPS device. If apcupsd or apctest is already running, please stop it and run this program again. apctest error termination completed Notice in the access list it says "STATUS : COMMLOST", while yours says "STATUS : ONLINE". It's lunch time. Be back in a while. :) Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30692 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
If you are worried about the inrush of a incandescent light bulb you should be terrified about the inrush to a switching power supply (CPU, drive array) or a wall wart transformer (external drive or USB hub) Any good UPS should have an inrush current limiter to prevent damage to itself. Also unless the inverter in the UPS runs all the time, while on mains, inrush is to the mains not the UPS inverter circuit. Perhaps better to destroy a cheap built unit now and get a well designed replacement in its place, rather that have it fail when it is needed most. |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Greetings, I believe I may have found my current issue problem. In /etc/apcupsd/apcupsd.conf I found this: UPSTYPE usb DEVICE /dev/ttyS0 Every thing I have seen has: UPSTYPE usb DEVICE /dev/ttyUSB0 I changed the DEVICE line to read /dev/ttyUSB0. I then stopped and restarted apcupsd, using systemctl, and received a connection error. Ok, forget that. I just did the change again and did not get the connection error. I must have had a typo in it the first time I changed it. But... I'm still getting: STATUS : COMMLOST And apctest still will not work. So, that didn't fix my issue. :( Still looking for answers elsewhere (on the Internet). :) Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
Normally the USB type is the default and doesn't even have to be defined in the conf file. This is what I have in my conf file. UPSTYPE usb DEVICE The default conf file has the old serial cable in it and is not applicable to any of the newer products. Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Normally the USB type is the default and doesn't even have to be defined in the conf file. This is what I have in my conf file. Hi Keith, Yep, that was what I found on the Internet. Still didn't work for me. But... Just out of the blue I was going to find a different port on the PC to plug the UPS into. No more open ports. So, I tested but pulling the cable from the UPS itself. I then plugged it back in and jiggled it a couple times. I got apctest to work. But, the apcaccess list is still showing COMMLOST. Go figure. And, apctest is a no go for me. It doesn't know how to do things with my UPS. I guess the UPS too old. No calibration. :( I guess I'll just have to live with it or break down and buy a newer UPS. Oh well... Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
Was your USB cable one of the approved ones in the apcupsd.conf file. The APC cables are mongrel with a RJ-45 connector one end for the UPS and the standard USB A connector on the other end for the PC. The cable assemblies normally have a identifier either molded into the end of the USB connector or other identifying label. # UPSCABLE <cable> # Defines the type of cable connecting the UPS to your computer. # # Possible generic choices for <cable> are: # simple, smart, ether, usb # # Or a specific cable model number may be used: # 940-0119A, 940-0127A, 940-0128A, 940-0020B, # 940-0020C, 940-0023A, 940-0024B, 940-0024C, # 940-1524C, 940-0024G, 940-0095A, 940-0095B, # 940-0095C, 940-0625A, M-04-02-2000 # Do you have one of the older cables with a serial DB-9 connector on one end by chance? You would change the cable type to SMART in that case. Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13751 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 |
Noooo!Not an issue, as the light bulb is on, mains is disconnected- and in the time it takes to switch over the UPS battery output, the bulb won't have cooled enough for someone to even notice the light flicker. Although the startup surge of devices is why you shouldn't connect a laser printer to a UPS (unless it's one humongous unit). eg 450 laser printer cold start-up power draw- 4kW. Ref (PDF) Grant Darwin NT |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
Was your USB cable one of the approved ones in the apcupsd.conf file. The APC cables are mongrel with a RJ-45 connector one end for the UPS and the standard USB A connector on the other end for the PC. The cable assemblies normally have a identifier either molded into the end of the USB connector or other identifying label. Hi Keith, I don't know if it is approved or not. I'll have to check later. My cable has a standard USB connector for the PC and the other end has a squarish connector for the UPS. If the squarish connector is what you call a DB-9, then I will edit the .conf file and change the cable type. Ok, I just find my cable type on the Internet: USB 2.0 A to B. The DB-9 connector you mention sounds like the type used for VGA connections to a monitor except I think those were DB-15 connectors. Is that connector type correct? Have a great day! :) Siran CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
No the squarish connector is a telephone connector, either a RJ-12 or RJ-45. The RJ-45 is what people commonly call a "Ethernet" connector. A DB-9 is a much larger molded plug similar to the DB-15 VGA connector you mention. Have you followed the instructions in the apcupsd documents. You need to modify the apucupsd.conf file as necessary and also the apcupsd file in /etc/default. I have a hunch you have not done the last part. You need to enable the interface in that file. It is set to no by default when you install apcupsd. You need to change it to YES. Then reboot. ISCONFIGURED=yes Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
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