How likely is it for whatever circuit is used to keep things running, off the battery during a power outage, to go bad? Any ideas? That's what I think is wrong with this UPS.

Well your upower output says it can support the load for 1 hour. Was that taken with your BOINC load running or just idling in the desktop?
You want to run the upower command while you are crunching to get a good idea of how long the UPS can hold up your load.

My upower command shows time to empty:

10.4 minutes for my BOINC load. That is on my SMT-1500C UPS.

Device: /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/ups_hiddev0
  native-path:          /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:08.1/0000:0d:00.3/usb9/9-4/9-4:1.0/usbmisc/hiddev0
  vendor:               American Power Conversion 
  model:                Smart-UPS_1500 FW:UPS 03.5 / ID=1015
  serial:               3S1831X12519    
  power supply:         yes
  updated:              Sat 09 Nov 2019 09:37:57 AM PST (22 seconds ago)
  has history:          yes
  has statistics:       yes
  ups
    present:             yes
    state:               charging
    warning-level:       none
    time to empty:       10.4 minutes
    percentage:          98%
    icon-name:          'battery-full-charging-symbolic'

That is for a 840W or VA load. The nominal VA rating is 1500VA or 1000 watts.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

It is far from impossible that the inverter (that's the bit of the UPS providing power when the mains is off) has failed - I've got a couple of doorstops that were UPS that suffered the inverter failing.
One was a "pass-through" device, where the inverter runs all the time, supplied from the "battery charger" or battery depending on the state of the incoming mains. The other was a "stand-by inverter" where the inverter only comes to life when the mains is out. I really must find the TUIT and get them sorted out - just now I'm using a pile of deep-discharge batteries and a 3kw inverter with built-in transfer switch to do the job, it's a bit inefficient as I've only got a 500w load on it.....

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Greetings,

Hi Keith,

Well your upower output says it can support the load for 1 hour. Was that taken with your BOINC load running or just idling in the desktop?
You want to run the upower command while you are crunching to get a good idea of how long the UPS can hold up your load.

BOINC was running when I did the upower in terminal. 1 hour does not seem correct. Your upower says 10.4 minutes until empty. The wording on the box mine came in says up to 69 minutes of runtime power. In any power outage we've had, I have never seen where it was more than maybe 10 - 15 minutes. The last few times, when still only using Winders, the Powerchute software said 4 minutes. The past couple outages, running Linux and Winders, there was no backup power. Everything went dead right away.

I'll be getting a new UPS and delegating the old one as a fancy schmancy power strip. ;) Unless... upower is correct and I do have 1 hour backup time. The box does say up to 69 minutes... Perhaps there was something wrong with the old battery and Powerchute took that into account when telling me I had 4 minutes backup.

[edit]
When I go into Winders to play WoW, I'll check to see what Powerchute tells me with the new battery.
[/edit]

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Greetings,

To Keith and all that responded about my UPS, thank you! :)

The good news is, Powerchute in Winders says I have 61 minutes of backup power. Bad news is, I won't need a new UPS and that battery is definitely bad. Off to the recycle shop. :)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

The estimate of power on battery supporting the load is an estimate. You also have to calibrate the device first on a similar load as what the device is going to support to get a good and accurate estimate of time remaining. The PowerChute software has a calibration routine in its menu. Did you ever run that? I don't believe the 1 hour remaining is accurate if you say you were running your BOINC load when you ran upower.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

The estimate of power on battery supporting the load is an estimate. You also have to calibrate the device first on a similar load as what the device is going to support to get a good and accurate estimate of time remaining. The PowerChute software has a calibration routine in its menu. Did you ever run that? I don't believe the 1 hour remaining is accurate if you say you were running your BOINC load when you ran upower.

Hi Keith,

I'll have to check the calibration thing tomorrow. I only go into Winders when I play World of Warcraft. I don't do anything else there. I don't remember seeing a calibration routine, by the way. I assume that the calibration will store data on the UPS? Then whatever Powerchute decides will be available for upower? With all the UPS I owned, I've never had to calibrate any of them. This one is the first one that has software to check it and stuff.

[edit]
Something else I just thought of. BOINC is not running on Winders, only Linux. So I doubt the calibration would be accurate for when I'm logged into Linux.
[/edit]

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Yes, you can access the UPS directly through the command line in Terminal. There is a calibration function in the command line interface menu.
ups -- Initiate UPS Control
ups -c <Off | GraceOff | On | Reboot |GraceReboot | Sleep | GraceSleep>
-r <Start | Stop> (UPS Runtime Calibration)
-s Start (UPS Selftest)
-st (UPS Status)
-a Start (Test UPS short alarm)
Read through your documentation that came with PowerChute or go to the website and use the technical resources.

There also is an alternative control program for APC UPS' that is called apcupsd. It has both Linux and Windows binaries. It is located at SourceForge. It is better supported than PowerChute on alternative platforms.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Greetings,

Hi Keith,

You always have to test batteries with a real or simulated load to determine their actual health.

Ok, so how do I load test this battery to find out it's real life? Never done anything like that before.

Have a great day! :)

Siran

A quick and safe test is to plug an incandescent desk lamp into the UPS. Turn it on, and then flick the power off at the wall. This will only be a ~60w or so load, and should stay on for 5-10 min at least. If it does, then your battery has "some" useful capacity, and the UPS electronics is working properly.

You could use your PC for this test, but if the battery is bad, then it's like flicking it off at the wall. If your battery is bad, and the light goes out after 5 sec, nothing is broken, apart from the battery which you have now confirmed is dead.

I "dumpster dived" a 1kva UPS last month that was being dumped as it had "battery fault". ~$50US for a couple of new batteries, and it seems good. Not up to the multi-GPU rigs than some folks are running, but it should backup 3 or 4 of our regular PCs and prevent those random power flicker crashes.

Noooo!

NOT incandescent light bulbs!!!

Note that such bulbs have a very low switch-on cold resistance that requires a hefty switch-on current surge before the filament heats up to a higher resistance and the current is reduced to the nominal rated value.

If your UPS is greatly multiple times overrated, then you're fine for that test but not recommended... More likely you'll correctly get a false fail.

The best load test is the actual intended load. Or if you have available, an actual load resistor. A good stand in is to use a small electric heater as a load due to that resistance changing only slightly between the rated value to the cold-on value.


Good luck!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Yes, you can access the UPS directly through the command line in Terminal. There is a calibration function in the command line interface menu.
ups -- Initiate UPS Control
ups -c <Off | GraceOff | On | Reboot |GraceReboot | Sleep | GraceSleep>
-r <Start | Stop> (UPS Runtime Calibration)
-s Start (UPS Selftest)
-st (UPS Status)
-a Start (Test UPS short alarm)
Read through your documentation that came with PowerChute or go to the website and use the technical resources.

There also is an alternative control program for APC UPS' that is called apcupsd. It has both Linux and Windows binaries. It is located at SourceForge. It is better supported than PowerChute on alternative platforms.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/

Hi Keith,

I'm assuming the "ups" above is the program name. Correct? If so, I do not have it and I checked the repo and I did not see it there either.

However, "apcupsd" is there and is installed. I have been reading up on it on the Internet, and it is mind boggling. There is a section in battery maintenance called "Soft" Runtime Calibration. The first line states:

A runtime calibration causes the UPS to recalculate its available runtime capacity based on its current load.

I'm assuming that as the UPS is now running with the load I have, I can run "apctest" and it will calibrate the UPS. The function "apctest" is said to do the calibration.

I do not have the proper PowerChute. PowerChute + is the one with the calibration function. I don't have the + version. I'd rather not deal with anything in Winders anyway. ;) Linux to the rescue. :)

This is the link to the apcupsd user manual on the Internet, and this is the link to the "Soft" Runtime Calibration section.

I will await word from you on my assumptions and if this is my way to go for calibrating my UPS. :)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Yes, the electric heater or a kitchen toaster oven would be the appropriate load sources to test with. Though the incandescent light bulb is also a good test as long as the UPS can handle the low cold filament resistance inrush current.

I use apcupsd for all my UPS command and control. As you state, it is in the repo so easy to install.
You have access to apcaccess all the time for UPS status in the terminal.

keith@Serenity:~$ apcaccess
APC      : 001,027,0661
DATE     : 2019-11-10 08:26:09 -0800  
HOSTNAME : Serenity
VERSION  : 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian
UPSNAME  : Serenity
CABLE    : USB Cable
DRIVER   : USB UPS Driver
UPSMODE  : Stand Alone
STARTTIME: 2019-11-08 20:01:56 -0800  
MODEL    : Smart-UPS_1500 
STATUS   : ONLINE 
BCHARGE  : 100.0 Percent
TIMELEFT : 11.8 Minutes
MBATTCHG : 5 Percent
MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes
MAXTIME  : 0 Seconds
ALARMDEL : No alarm
BATTV    : 26.4 Volts
NUMXFERS : 0
TONBATT  : 0 Seconds
CUMONBATT: 0 Seconds
XOFFBATT : N/A
STATFLAG : 0x05000008
MANDATE  : 2018-08-01
SERIALNO : 3S1831X12519    
NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts
FIRMWARE : UPS 03.5 / ID=1015
END APC  : 2019-11-10 08:26:12 -0800  
keith@Serenity:~$ 

But to use apctest, you have to stop the running daemon or you get an error message.

keith@Serenity:~$ apctest


2019-11-10 08:27:27 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian
Checking configuration ...
sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled
cable.type = USB Cable
mode.type = USB UPS Driver
apctest FATAL ERROR in apctest.c at line 313
Unable to create UPS lock file.
  If apcupsd or apctest is already running,
  please stop it and run this program again.
apctest error termination completed
keith@Serenity:~$

Just stop the daemon with:

sudo systemctl stop apcupsd

Then run apctest:

sudo apctest

keith@Serenity:~$ sudo apctest


2019-11-10 08:30:41 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian
Checking configuration ...
sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled
cable.type = USB Cable
mode.type = USB UPS Driver
Setting up the port ...
Doing prep_device() ...

You are using a USB cable type, so I'm entering USB test mode
Hello, this is the apcupsd Cable Test program.
This part of apctest is for testing USB UPSes.

Getting UPS capabilities...SUCCESS

Please select the function you want to perform.

1)  Test kill UPS power
2)  Perform self-test
3)  Read last self-test result
4)  View/Change battery date
5)  View manufacturing date
6)  View/Change alarm behavior
7)  View/Change sensitivity
8)  View/Change low transfer voltage
9)  View/Change high transfer voltage
10) Perform battery calibration
11) Test alarm
12) View/Change self-test interval
 Q) Quit

Select function number: 

The choose option 10 for runtime calibration with your intended load running.

Read the documentation for the overview of the program.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/apcupsd


Then just restart the daemon after you are finished.

sudo systemctl start apcupsd

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Hi Keith,

The choose option 10 for runtime calibration with your intended load running.

Read the documentation for the overview of the program.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/apcupsd


Then just restart the daemon after you are finished.

Here's what I get:

rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo systemctl start apcupsd

rick@Minty-Winders:~$ apcaccess
APC      : 001,017,0428
DATE     : 2019-11-10 10:59:35 -0600  
HOSTNAME : Minty-Winders
VERSION  : 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian
CABLE    : USB Cable
DRIVER   : USB UPS Driver
UPSMODE  : Stand Alone
STARTTIME: 2019-11-10 10:59:25 -0600  
STATUS   : COMMLOST 
MBATTCHG : 5 Percent
MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes
MAXTIME  : 0 Seconds
NUMXFERS : 0
TONBATT  : 0 Seconds
CUMONBATT: 0 Seconds
XOFFBATT : N/A
STATFLAG : 0x05000100
END APC  : 2019-11-10 11:07:13 -0600  

rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo systemctl stop apcupsd

rick@Minty-Winders:~$ sudo apctest


2019-11-10 11:11:01 apctest 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) debian
Checking configuration ...
sharenet.type = Network & ShareUPS Disabled
cable.type = USB Cable
mode.type = USB UPS Driver
Setting up the port ...
apctest FATAL ERROR in apctest.c at line 321
Unable to open UPS device.
  If apcupsd or apctest is already running,
  please stop it and run this program again.
apctest error termination completed

Notice in the access list it says "STATUS : COMMLOST", while yours says "STATUS : ONLINE".

It's lunch time. Be back in a while. :)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

If you are worried about the inrush of a incandescent light bulb you should be terrified about the inrush to a switching power supply (CPU, drive array) or a wall wart transformer (external drive or USB hub)

Any good UPS should have an inrush current limiter to prevent damage to itself.

Also unless the inverter in the UPS runs all the time, while on mains, inrush is to the mains not the UPS inverter circuit.

Perhaps better to destroy a cheap built unit now and get a well designed replacement in its place, rather that have it fail when it is needed most.

---

Greetings,

I believe I may have found my current issue problem. In /etc/apcupsd/apcupsd.conf I found this:

UPSTYPE usb
DEVICE /dev/ttyS0

Every thing I have seen has:

UPSTYPE usb
DEVICE /dev/ttyUSB0

I changed the DEVICE line to read /dev/ttyUSB0. I then stopped and restarted apcupsd, using systemctl, and received a connection error.

Ok, forget that. I just did the change again and did not get the connection error. I must have had a typo in it the first time I changed it. But... I'm still getting:

STATUS   : COMMLOST

And apctest still will not work. So, that didn't fix my issue. :( Still looking for answers elsewhere (on the Internet). :)

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Normally the USB type is the default and doesn't even have to be defined in the conf file. This is what I have in my conf file.

UPSTYPE usb
DEVICE 

The default conf file has the old serial cable in it and is not applicable to any of the newer products.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Normally the USB type is the default and doesn't even have to be defined in the conf file. This is what I have in my conf file.

UPSTYPE usb
DEVICE 

The default conf file has the old serial cable in it and is not applicable to any of the newer products.

Hi Keith,

Yep, that was what I found on the Internet. Still didn't work for me. But...

Just out of the blue I was going to find a different port on the PC to plug the UPS into. No more open ports. So, I tested but pulling the cable from the UPS itself. I then plugged it back in and jiggled it a couple times. I got apctest to work. But, the apcaccess list is still showing COMMLOST. Go figure.

And, apctest is a no go for me. It doesn't know how to do things with my UPS. I guess the UPS too old. No calibration. :( I guess I'll just have to live with it or break down and buy a newer UPS. Oh well...

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Was your USB cable one of the approved ones in the apcupsd.conf file. The APC cables are mongrel with a RJ-45 connector one end for the UPS and the standard USB A connector on the other end for the PC. The cable assemblies normally have a identifier either molded into the end of the USB connector or other identifying label.

# UPSCABLE <cable>
# Defines the type of cable connecting the UPS to your computer.
#
# Possible generic choices for <cable> are:
# simple, smart, ether, usb
#
# Or a specific cable model number may be used:
# 940-0119A, 940-0127A, 940-0128A, 940-0020B,
# 940-0020C, 940-0023A, 940-0024B, 940-0024C,
# 940-1524C, 940-0024G, 940-0095A, 940-0095B,
# 940-0095C, 940-0625A, M-04-02-2000
#

Do you have one of the older cables with a serial DB-9 connector on one end by chance? You would change the cable type to SMART in that case.

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)

Noooo!

NOT incandescent light bulbs!!!

Note that such bulbs have a very low switch-on cold resistance that requires a hefty switch-on current surge before the filament heats up to a higher resistance and the current is reduced to the nominal rated value.

Not an issue, as the light bulb is on, mains is disconnected- and in the time it takes to switch over the UPS battery output, the bulb won't have cooled enough for someone to even notice the light flicker.

Although the startup surge of devices is why you shouldn't connect a laser printer to a UPS (unless it's one humongous unit).
eg 450 laser printer cold start-up power draw- 4kW.
Ref (PDF)

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Was your USB cable one of the approved ones in the apcupsd.conf file. The APC cables are mongrel with a RJ-45 connector one end for the UPS and the standard USB A connector on the other end for the PC. The cable assemblies normally have a identifier either molded into the end of the USB connector or other identifying label.

# UPSCABLE <cable>
# Defines the type of cable connecting the UPS to your computer.
#
# Possible generic choices for <cable> are:
# simple, smart, ether, usb
#
# Or a specific cable model number may be used:
# 940-0119A, 940-0127A, 940-0128A, 940-0020B,
# 940-0020C, 940-0023A, 940-0024B, 940-0024C,
# 940-1524C, 940-0024G, 940-0095A, 940-0095B,
# 940-0095C, 940-0625A, M-04-02-2000
#

Do you have one of the older cables with a serial DB-9 connector on one end by chance? You would change the cable type to SMART in that case.

Hi Keith,

I don't know if it is approved or not. I'll have to check later.

My cable has a standard USB connector for the PC and the other end has a squarish connector for the UPS. If the squarish connector is what you call a DB-9, then I will edit the .conf file and change the cable type. Ok, I just find my cable type on the Internet: USB 2.0 A to B. The DB-9 connector you mention sounds like the type used for VGA connections to a monitor except I think those were DB-15 connectors. Is that connector type correct?

Have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

No the squarish connector is a telephone connector, either a RJ-12 or RJ-45. The RJ-45 is what people commonly call a "Ethernet" connector. A DB-9 is a much larger molded plug similar to the DB-15 VGA connector you mention.

Have you followed the instructions in the apcupsd documents. You need to modify the apucupsd.conf file as necessary and also the apcupsd file in /etc/default. I have a hunch you have not done the last part. You need to enable the interface in that file. It is set to no by default when you install apcupsd. You need to change it to YES. Then reboot.

ISCONFIGURED=yes

---

Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association)