Linux CPU apps? AVX?

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Ian&Steve C.
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Message 1951147 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 21:45:19 UTC

so all of my linux systems were installed like this:

1. install OS
2. install nvidia drivers
3. install boinc-client and boinc-manager (and configure app_config and cc_config) v7.9.3, v7.8.3 on the ubuntu 17.10 machines
4. copy petri zi3v cuda9.0 package and all files included to the boinc folder
5. copy over petri 9.2 app
6. start boinc and off we go.

but what about the CPU apps? is there a need to install a CPU specific version? does the special app package include any CPU app?

most of my systems support AVX (E5 Xeons)

according to my app_info file (which is included in the petri package), i'm using this: "8.22r3711"

the filename suggests it supports sse4.1 as it also contains "sse41", but no mention of AVX.

what has me confused is the version number at r3711, being newer than the version r3345 that says supports AVX on the lunatics website.

can someone clear up this confusion?
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Message 1951151 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 21:52:09 UTC

Both the BOINC All-in-One 7.4.44 and BOINC 7.8.3 installations zips by TBar include full cpu AP and MB apps and the app_info set to use them. The MB cpu app is a newer version than anything available from the stock Linux cpu applications. There are also AVX2 applications by TBar available for cpu's with that capability. If you aren't running the cpu apps available from Crunchers Anonymous compiled by TBar, you are doing a disservice to your cpu compute production.
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Message 1951153 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 21:57:47 UTC
Last modified: 21 Aug 2018, 22:00:51 UTC

im using the apps from the zi3v-Cuda90_Special package. i am not using the whole boinc install from Tbar, only the zi3v app package. i installed boinc manually from the command line.

i had to redownload to check it. as all i did was copy/paste the files. i didn't look what was actually in it, and was part of my question. looks like it does include the AP and MBv8 cpu apps.

like i said it's version r3711. but does this include avx support or not?

i see r3345 from the lunatics site claims to support AVX, which is what is part of my confusion. does an old version of the app really contain newer features that are not present in the new version?

my CPUs support AVX, but not AVX2, so an AVX2 app wont help.

E5-2690
E5-2680v2
E5-2697v2

so which is faster? the zi3v r3711 with sse4.1, or the lunatics r3345 with AVX?
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Message 1951157 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 22:07:37 UTC - in response to Message 1951153.  

If you look at the app_name of the r3711 app, you can see it is SSE41 based SIMD instructions. If you want AVX, then you need the r3345 AVX app from Lunatics or the AVX2 applications from CA. I find the SSE41 application faster than the AVX apps in the Lunatics benchmarks.
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Message 1951162 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 22:12:43 UTC

are you saying that the AVX2 app will work on a CPU that claims to only support AVX? is the "AVX2" app somehow for both AVX and AVX2?

like i said, my CPUs do not support AVX2, only AVX
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Message 1951186 - Posted: 21 Aug 2018, 22:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 1951162.  

are you saying that the AVX2 app will work on a CPU that claims to only support AVX? is the "AVX2" app somehow for both AVX and AVX2?

like i said, my CPUs do not support AVX2, only AVX

No, I could have phrased my post better. You can run the AVX2 app on AVX2 compatible processors. AVX on AVX compatible processors. I don't think TBar compiled the AVX2 app to handle AVX backwards compatibility.
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Message 1951357 - Posted: 22 Aug 2018, 15:35:10 UTC - in response to Message 1951157.  

If you look at the app_name of the r3711 app, you can see it is SSE41 based SIMD instructions. If you want AVX, then you need the r3345 AVX app from Lunatics or the AVX2 applications from CA. I find the SSE41 application faster than the AVX apps in the Lunatics benchmarks.


Here is the Linux AVX app. So far it hasn't trashed anything. Hope its faster.
I accidentally tried a AVX2 app and yup, it trashed "several" cpu tasks.


http://lunatics.kwsn.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=467

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Message 1951365 - Posted: 22 Aug 2018, 16:21:21 UTC

Teah that’s what I was considering using, but reports are that the sse4.1 app is still faster.

I might play with it after the Wow competition is over.
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Message 1951367 - Posted: 22 Aug 2018, 16:36:21 UTC - in response to Message 1951365.  

Teah that’s what I was considering using, but reports are that the sse4.1 app is still faster.

I might play with it after the Wow competition is over.


To make it more confusing, the tasks that are being reported are not using AVX. They are using "Build features: SETI8 Non-graphics FFTW FFTOUT JSPF SSE4.1 64bit "

So it is possible that I have either a misnamed file. Or someone took a look at the results and decided they would keep people from "slowing down" by trying AVX :(

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Message 1951373 - Posted: 22 Aug 2018, 17:22:04 UTC

you need to add the new file name to your app_info file, otherwise it will just use your old 3711 app
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Message 1951638 - Posted: 23 Aug 2018, 20:10:56 UTC - in response to Message 1951373.  
Last modified: 23 Aug 2018, 20:14:32 UTC

you need to add the new file name to your app_info file, otherwise it will just use your old 3711 app


I think I did. I think it just took more time than I thought for the uploads to show up on the website.

Someone just posted an older benchmark (shades of 2017?) that shows the non-AVX apps running 75%-80% in speed/time.

I am hoping that the hour and half on the cpu I was getting is now falling to 1.25 hours or less (I hope). Eventually I will add it to my E5-2670 boxes. Both are basline at 2.6Ghz while the cpu (i7-3779) baselines at 3.4Ghz (I think) so even if the E5-2670 turbo to 3.0Ghz (which it looks like they are doing) the confounding factor is one cpu is faster than the other.

Don't get me wrong. The system with more cores is processing more tasks even if the smaller core# is a bunch faster.

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Message 1951695 - Posted: 24 Aug 2018, 0:08:29 UTC

That is odd.

I copied the app_info.xml from my I7-3770 box along with the avx app it referred to and put them on my e5-2670 one cpu box and it promptly threw up all over me.

Then the Seti server snipply said "Your app_info.xml file doesn't have a usable version of SETI@home v8."

So I renamed the original app_info.xml back and we will see if I have gremlins tonight.

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Message 1951707 - Posted: 24 Aug 2018, 1:00:33 UTC - in response to Message 1951695.  

Yes I have gremlins.

:(

I think they are undisplayable characters.

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Message 1951720 - Posted: 24 Aug 2018, 1:57:15 UTC - in response to Message 1951707.  
Last modified: 24 Aug 2018, 1:58:21 UTC

Yes I have gremlins.

:(

I think they are undisplayable characters.

Tom


The executable file has execute bit set?

Process creation (../../projects/setiathome.berkeley.edu/MBv8_8.05r3345_avx_linux64) failed: Error -1, errno=13
execv: Permission denied


This will display it. This bites me too on custom apps sometimes.
sudo ls -l
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Message 1951737 - Posted: 24 Aug 2018, 3:28:26 UTC

Anytime you copy an app from a different machine with different login or user group, the execute bit gets stripped. Bit me in the ass one time and trashed a couple hundred gpu tasks in about 1 minute before I could scramble to exit BOINC and look at the gpu app I had copied from another machine. Yep, execute not set. Set the app for execute and restarted BOINC and off to the races.
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Message 1951781 - Posted: 24 Aug 2018, 11:29:27 UTC - in response to Message 1951737.  

Anytime you copy an app from a different machine with different login or user group, the execute bit gets stripped. Bit me in the ass one time and trashed a couple hundred gpu tasks in about 1 minute before I could scramble to exit BOINC and look at the gpu app I had copied from another machine. Yep, execute not set. Set the app for execute and restarted BOINC and off to the races.



Sigh. Got that fixed. Got the app_info.xml patched to point at and still got the "no valid app" complaint.

But as reported in the other thread, I booted it up and started it up this morning and it cheerfully downloaded 100 tasks and started munching on them using the AVX app.

Its weird! We have just hit an example of "unexplained computer errors" only this time it wasn't either compiler error or a strange run-time error (on our app) it was on the other guy :)

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Message 1952100 - Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 0:51:30 UTC

So far my i7-3770 is apparently averaging about 1.5 hours / cpu task.

So far my i5-2670 is apparently averaging about 1.83 hours / cpu task.

They are using the same CPU AVX app.

I think the crucial difference is the i7 is running at 3.4GHz and the i5 is running at 2.6GHz and sometimes 2.9999 GHz.

I have a CPU upgrade for the e5 machine on order. I am want to wait till the RAC peaks before I start any GPU processing and/or upgrade the CPU ( the upgrade runs at 2.8GHz and has 15c/30t). I hope I have the patience to wait. :)

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Message 1952103 - Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 1:05:59 UTC

Well since I am just a beginner on Intel this past spring, I had to learn that Xeon means "locked" processor with no overclocking capability other than the stock 2-core allowed fixed boost speed. Then when I got a i7-6850K to be able to overclock, I learned that you are still limited to 2-core stock boosts, UNLESS you have a motherboard that can set "Sync All Cores" to a fixed multiplier. Yay! Overclocking all 12 cores to 4250Mhz. And as expected the faster you can run your cores, the faster you can crunch cpu tasks. Regardless of which particular cpu app you are using. Faster=faster.
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Message 1952169 - Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 11:20:09 UTC - in response to Message 1952103.  

I have always been "knee jerky" about over-clocking even when I wished I could because I associate overclocking with running "too hot" even though with modern coolers it is less likely.

Xeon seems to be aimed at the Server market where 27/7 reliability is prized over faster processing. Although Xeon seems to show up in workstations too.

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Message 1952172 - Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 11:27:54 UTC - in response to Message 1952169.  

... where 27/7 reliability is prized ...
Is that "Time Overclocking"? LOL
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