Response to [url=http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=7871#62559]Kinnison <a>

Hi and thanks

My source is Danah Zohar's book The Quantum self, 1990, Bloomsbury Publishing Ltd
Danish edition: Den kvantemekaniske bevidsthed, 1991, Gyldendalske Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag A.S., Copenhagen

page 33,

where Erwin Schrödinger's name is spelled like this.

As a writer, I'm a real nitpick myself ;-) so as he seems to be of German origin, I think his name is spelled as Schrödinger, and as many other names have been "Americanized", the umlaut has been throwed away! Else it would, in my oppinion, be Schroedinger.

The umlaut ¨ is on my Danish keyboard sited right next to the ~ and under the ^.

The quote I have taken/stolen/was inspired by/rewritten from Hutch, [url=http://www.rain.org/~hutch/index.html]Mark Hutchenreuther,<a> who was SIG-general for [url=http://www.rain.org/~hutch/cm_sig.html]The Creative Mischief SIG,<a> a now former Mensa SIG, I was a member of. And I'm sure Hutch wouldn't mind my rewriting!!! :-)

He has also made this:

Schroedinger's Cat Sitting Service

Going out of town for an extended period of time? Tired of your neighbor or coworker forgetting to feed Fluffy as promised? Don't trust the local pet-sitting services?

Try our national chain of over-qualified trained pet sitters, many world-reknowned physicists. Our rates are reasonable and our service is absolutely the best around.


Call today! 1 (800) NOT-SURE @M.Hutchenreuther

N.B. As you can see Hutch spells his name Schroedinger, so I don't know! But, not to nitpick too much, I think I'm right!!! ;-)
[EDIT] Ups, I just saw that I actually had spelled his name wrong, I had forgotten the r. Corrected now! Thanks Kinnison!

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Hi Lena,

Sorry to nitpick like that - actually I'd seen a few posts but secretly I hoped that one of the learned members of Cafe Seti would nitpick instead of me ;)

I remember Schrodinger from my physics lessons at uni a *long* time ago - at least 15 yrs now! Is there a cat there or not? We could start a discussion on quantum tunnelling or something, but lets not!!

I am pretty sure he was spelt Schrodinger in our UK physics books - with the umlaut. Maybe with an e is an americanisation?

There's probably some weird way I can get an umlaut on my keybord, with the ALT button maybe? But I dunno.

Nice to talk to ya,

Chris aka Kinnison.

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<img border="0" src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=268&amp;prj=1&amp;trans=off" /><img border="0" src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=268&amp;prj=4&amp;trans=off" />

> Hi Lena,
>
> Sorry to nitpick like that - actually I'd seen a few posts but secretly I
> hoped that one of the learned members of Cafe Seti would nitpick instead of me
> ;)
>
> I remember Schrodinger from my physics lessons at uni a *long* time ago - at
> least 15 yrs now! Is there a cat there or not? We could start a discussion on
> quantum tunnelling or something, but lets not!!
>
> I am pretty sure he was spelt Schrodinger in our UK physics books - with the
> umlaut. Maybe with an e is an americanisation?
>
> There's probably some weird way I can get an umlaut on my keybord, with the
> ALT button maybe? But I dunno.
>
> Nice to talk to ya,
>
> Chris aka Kinnison.
>

Hi Chris!

We nitpickers loooove this, so let's just continue! :-)

I actually blushed when I realized my missing r, which is embarrassing to see for a nitpick! ;-) So thanks for drawing my attention to it! But now it's corrected!

No, Schrödinger used the cat as an example to explain the principles of indefiniteness (is this translated correct???) in quantum mechanics, which says that the photons can exist both as a particle and as a wave. Schrödingers cat has the destiny to be both alive and partly alive at the same time and suffers from a certain quantum-identity crisis.

So he puts the cat in a cage with opaque walls, so nobody can see the cat until the story is over. Then he puts a small amount of radioactive material in the cage, which has the, for the clarity of it, the probability of 50% to send radiation upwards and the probability of 50% to send radiation downwards. If the radiation goes upwards it will hit a particledetector which turns on a switch, which lets a lethal dose of poison drop down in the foodbowl, and if the radiation goes downwards, it turns on a switch, which drops food down in the bowl, and the cat will survive until the next experiment.

These possibilities, upwards, the cat dies, downwards, the cat lives, are what we usually expect in our daily world, but things are not so simple for the quantum cat, as it, according to the prevalent quantum theory, both is dead and alive. The cat in in the same condition as the electrons, which can be both waves and particles at the same time.

So the best thing we can do for this poor cat is to descibe it with all its possibilities with a Schrödinger wave-function, an equation, which describes all its possibilities. (And don't ask me about this equation!)

In this example the possibilities tells us that the cat has eaten the poison and is dead (1. possibility) and that the cat has eaten the food and is alive (2. possibility). First when this wavefunction collaps, when all possibilities solidify, we can approach a real cat which we either can pet or burry. A such collaps must happen at a certain time, because when we, as the story goes, open the cage and see the cat, it's dead. The question is then: What killed the cat?

This question, which isn't only relevant to our quantum cat, but to all of us and all what we see around us, goes directly to the question of, why there exists a reality, and this creates a paradox because the world is full of ordinary cats which are either dead or alive, and on the other side
the physics that says that this is impossible. The math behind Schrödingers equation says that nothing can decide the destiny of the cat, that nothing can make its wavefunction collaps. Even if we place a camera inside the cage to monitor if it's dead or alive, the camera will be so "overwhelmed" by all the possibilities, so it will assume the classic quantum mechanic behaviour and show everything to everybody.

So, despite of what we say, the quantum theory says that the cat is - and must always be, both dead and alive. And this paradox is called the observationproblem, as it contradicts our usually observations and because it focus on the role of the observervation and thereby the observer in creation of reality.

This is what I found so amusing about my signature, because I also sometimes don't know if I'm dead or alive! :-P

I found [url=http://www.starr.net/is/type/intlchart.html]this<a> site, where you can see the position of the ¨.

If we shall talk more about this, let's move over to the science board. ;-) The topic may be a little too longhaired for the Café.

Hilsen Lena :-D

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> Hi Lena,
>
> Sorry to nitpick like that - actually I'd seen a few posts but secretly I
> hoped that one of the learned members of Cafe Seti would nitpick instead of me
> ;)
>
> I remember Schrodinger from my physics lessons at uni a *long* time ago - at
> least 15 yrs now! Is there a cat there or not? We could start a discussion on
> quantum tunnelling or something, but lets not!!
>
> I am pretty sure he was spelt Schrodinger in our UK physics books - with the
> umlaut. Maybe with an e is an americanisation?
>
> There's probably some weird way I can get an umlaut on my keybord, with the
> ALT button maybe? But I dunno.
>
> Nice to talk to ya,
>
> Chris aka Kinnison.

Chris, you can use WinXPs character map utility to get the un-American textual characters such as ö. I'm not sure how effective the prvious Windows versions character map utilities were. I do not remember them being as sophisticated as the one in WinXP. The utility can be found like this: Start/Programs/Accesories/System Tools/Character Map

I hope this helps you when you find the need to use other characters.

L8R....

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My Time: Sunday, 09 January 2005 - 08:20 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

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CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

You're much better at describing this stuff than me, Lena :)

From what I remember about Schrodinger's Cat - it *is* all really an observation problem, as you said.

The cat could be alive, the cat could be dead - but the actual *act* of looking makes him dead.

I'm sure it's closely related to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Eek, 15 yrs renders me unable to remember equations and the like, but the basic pronciple he had was that you cannot tie down the *EXACT* position and velocity of any particle, ie. an electron. The mere scientific act of trying to perceive the position of a particle means you cannot know it's velocity or speed.
Simply to look at something is to alter it.

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Hold the Alt key while pressing the code for the non-American/English letter and you will get the letter in most fonts.

For example: ALT + 0246 =ö

ß=0223
º=0186
ä=0228
ë=0235
ï=0239
ü=0252

The character map gives the codes for other letters and symbols. I keep a small chart on my monitor of the ones I most frequently use.

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> No, Schrödinger used the cat as an example to explain the principles of
> indefiniteness (is this translated correct???) in quantum mechanics, which
(snip)

The word you're looking for in English is "uncertainty".

Great explanation! :)

> Hold the Alt key while pressing the code for the non-American/English letter
> and you will get the letter in most fonts.
>
> For example: ALT + 0246 =ö
>
> ß=0223
> º=0186
> ä=0228
> ë=0235
> ï=0239
> ü=0252
>
> The character map gives the codes for other letters and symbols. I keep a
> small chart on my monitor of the ones I most frequently use.
>
The better way for XP is to install an alternate keyboard layout. I use either US standard or US international. In US International to get a ö, I hit " followed by o. The only reason that I don't use US international is that I make my living as a C++ programmer, and US international is a true pain for writing software.

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BOINC WIKI

Now that we're off-off-topic, here's one I can't figure out.

OS X stores it's keymaps in XML files, which means that I should be able to remap dead keys to XML/SGML expressions. The US keyboard layout, for example, remaps &#x2325;s &rarr; &szlig;, &#x2325;e followed by e &rarr; &eacute;, &#x2325;n followed by &#x21e7;N &raquo; &Ntilde;, and so forth.

But since that's the case, I should be able remap it so that &#x2325;s &rarr; &szlig;, &#x2325;e e &raquo; &eacute;, and &#x2325;n &#x21e7;N &raquo; &Ntilde;... but no success.

As for programming, you can't code in anything but a US layout. How many C-heads do you know use Dvoark? I can count on one hand how many, and have five fingers left over.

It could be worse.
Remember APL?

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Bump! And please pay my first mentor in the fine art of creative mischiefs, Mark Hutchenreuther, a visit! Even his site is old, you can still get a good laugh there!

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> I am pretty sure he was spelt Schrodinger in our UK physics books - with the
> umlaut. Maybe with an e is an americanisation?

The e is an alternative for the Umlaut: it's either Schrödinger or Schroedinger.

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> > I am pretty sure he was spelt Schrodinger in our UK physics books - with
> the
> > umlaut. Maybe with an e is an americanisation?
>
> The e is an alternative for the Umlaut: it's either Schrödinger or
> Schroedinger.

Explanation from Germany:
O-Umlaut (Ö) is usually the same as 'OE', just in surnames some (most?) people insist on their special spelling.
The telefonbook reads and lists it as 'OE' as well.
Like in my nick: Sänger == Saenger

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Gruesse vom Saenger

For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki

As someone else said somewhere else:
One thing thats not uncertain about Schroediger's Cat is that it will try claw your face off if it's alive when you open the box :)

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Need help? Check out the excellent Unofficial BOINC-Wiki!
'We are the BOINC. Prepare to be assimilated.'

If the box is sealed, the Schroedinger's cat will eventually suffocate, choke on its own hairball, starve, dehydrate, or possibly scommit suicide by smashing itself against the walls.

Or perhaps, it will take the Douglas Adams route. (IIRC, when Schroedinger's Cat's box was opened, the cat was no longer there. It had found a quantum-mechanical exit.)

Schrödinger created his cat to demonstrate the principal of quantum uncertainty which says that a particle does not have a specific location until it is measured. Rather a particle --such as an electron-- has only a probablility of being in any location. This probablility is described as a wave function. That is, where the probablility is highest, the particle has the highest probablility of being found. But in fact it may be found (with lesser probability) at any point in space in line with Heisenburg's principal of undertainty. Thus, in quantum terms, we cannot say that the cat is either alive or dead, or both, until the particle is detected (measured) by the device set to detect it, thus collapsing the probability wave to a single point in spacetime.

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THE MOTHER OF FOOLS IS ALWAYS PREGNANT

I'M TROLLING FOR FOOLS. THIS MUST BE THE PLACE!

The other night I was watching the German movie [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130827/]"Lola rennt"<a> on tv, and it was a very interesting experience, besides it's a great movie, cool, contemporary, and with a very interesting directing and cut, as I recognized the Heisenbergs Principle of Uncertainty in it.

The director, Tom Tykwer, describes three different probabilities - waves - in Lola's life, which happens in a timespand of 20 minutes each! And there are some fractal images put in it too :-)! He has chosen to show these 3 waves as a sequence, so the movie contents the beginning, the explanation for Lola's choices, then the 3 different possibilities of 20 minutes each, and in between, a hint of what may become the collaps of the wave, so the possibility solidify as the true ending of the movie!

Of course there would be many other possibilities to the situation; Lola may tell Manni to go f*** himself and hang the phone up on him, or she may call the police, or Manni didn't do what he did in the first place to get in his situation etc.

A very recommendable movie! Enjoy!!! :-)

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It is the best example of German philosophy with the best example of techno music videos.

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> It is the best example of German philosophy with the best example of techno
> music videos.
>

Are there some Germans in da house??? Is it German philosophy? In this case I'm not familiar with it, but it seems to me that Tom Tykwer is very interested in philosophy and physics.

Last night they showed an another movie, [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0203632/]"Der Krieger und die Kaiserin",<a> of him on tv, also with the lovely Franka Potente in the lead part, where the theme is fate; do we meet people randomly or are we meant to meet, some way or the other? I didn't see the movie as I needed to go to bed, so I'll see it later! But the first part of it looked interesting!

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I'll ask Guido. :-D

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> I'll ask Guido. :-D
>

Did you see his new [url=http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=11109#74247]website?<a>

I don't know if he's interested in German philosophy. I couldn't find any there! :-P

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