There is no doubt that a man called Jesus of Nazareth lived and was crucified.

Do you even read more than a few words of anyone else's posts anymore?

Was the Josephus passage a forgery?

So?

There are many persons and events in secular history, we only have ONE or Two mentions, or only ONE interpretation.

They are taught in our Universities (as I did) as 'A Story - Accepted'.

Why this Secular Attack against the existence of Jesus?

To this Atheist. Since Secular Ideological Believer's, have committed as many atrocities as Jesus/Religious Believer's:

The Ideological believer's have no Ethical, nor Moral Foundation for their attacks.

Because physicists created the atomic weapon, and chemists and physicists have been involved with the creation of many other types of weapon, and, over time, these weapons have killed millions, physicists and chemists have no moral nor ethical foundation for an attack on flat earthers. Likewise, due to biologists involvement with chemical weapons, I.D. should be free from attack by them.

Right?

Alternatively, facts are facts and woo is woo, and it doesn't matter who points out what belongs in one category or the other.

Or, yet another alternative: there is no secular attack. You, Bobby, know very well where I stood on religious matters 9 years ago. Clyde does not and, of course, will not. He thinks he knows my type, but is consistently proven wrong by those really paying attention. :)

I suspect the definition of secular eludes.

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

You guys/gals have no clue.

Keep up the truly unthinking attacks against those outside of your little universe.

Yes... There are very intelligent beliefs beyond yours.

Your obsession with attacking and not discussing opinions different from your beliefs:

Is sad.

Your belief in your superiority, as different from believing one is correct: Has resulted, if your type takes power:

In the mass murder and enslavement of Humanity.

That is a fact.

BTW: I have posted "Then we agree, to disagree" to Es99 and other truly Intelligent Posters.

Agree, to disagree is beyond your understanding.

How sad.

You continue to demonstrate your ignorance. That is not an attack. It is a fact. That you view it as an attack is sad.

I guess I will have to help you out, "rookie investigator".

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=39810&postid=577700

"Sarge" wrote:

"BillHyland" wrote:

"Sarge" wrote:

"BillHyland" wrote:

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I see and talk to Muslims on a daily basis. So I know what they're saying and what they claim to agree with. I suppose you do not meet many Muslims in your area of the country.

What is your point and how does it relate to what I said? I also work and talk with Muslims every day. The statement is a non-sequitir.

Let me spell out what I am saying very clearly. When those murderers are murdering in the name of Islam and Allah, we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts. This leads many to the assumption that the Imams agree and support those murderers.

The Muslims I know DO speak out against the words and actions of extremists.
Thus, it is your conclusion that is a non-sequitUr.

I say with a high degree of confidence that I more than other posting here now or ever have done more to get people to show respect to those posting here with religious beliefs. Not just Muslims, as this post from 2007 shows (just the one I found quickest), but all.

If you would take the time to read others in that thread and the ones that preceded it in a series, you will learn a lot, "rookie investigator". And perhaps you will see "secular attacks", "secular ideological believers", "obsession", "your belief in your superiority" and other lines you spout for the bull crap claptrap they really are.

You haven't read the clues that have been dropped you.

Do you have the intellectual honesty to follow the link, read that post, others in that thread and preceding threads to back to about March 2006?

(If I were you, asking me that question, you'd end with "I doubt you will.")

And you still need to respond in the Racism thread.

Here's a really good one.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=32479&postid=435477

"Sarge" wrote:

Now that I am home, I will post one more thing. Hopefully, I can get a good night's sleep so I can work hard tomorrow and complete one big task on which I have been working.

Consider this. Earth is not the center of the universe. It revolves around the sun. The solar system is in the armpit of the Western Spiral Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy (another Adams reference). The Milky Way Galaxy is an average one among many others.

We are small. Insignificant. Imperfect. (No, I do not think we will not work out all the things that are mysteries to science now in a few thousand years. It is not in our capacity, I believe, now or ever. I doubt most scientists function under that assumption. The most we can hope for are theories/models that allow for increasingly better explanations/predictions.)

If you accept evolution as a premise (and all you can do, if you aren't a scientist performing an extensive literature review on it or doing research it, is accept or not accept it), then we came from lifeforms we would consider insignificant ... dirty. ([humor on]Think "Planet of the Apes."[/humor off]) So, we too are insignificant. We should be humble.

If you accept that a creator exists and if you accept some portion of the Genesis story ... that Adam was created from something like dirt and clay ... then we are insignificant ... dirty.

Weird parallel, huh?
Rather than suggest that all followers of all religions follow out of fear, why not consider the possibility that they do so out of recognition of their insignificance? If you accept that God exists, one that cares, that's pretty stunning in light of our insignificance. (Too bad some religious people do not follow the admonitions to be humble.)

With that said, hopefully I will be asleep soon!

Secular attack my patootie.

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

That's a good question. i can say that when I do respond to these threads, I try to include factual information, and not just this is wrong or this is right. What I would like to do, if I ever get the time, is compile the historical evidence of what I have learned, and post it. I do not even want to start it, because it will take me a few weeks to compile all the information from the various sources, and make sure those sources are referenced. One of the things that I find confusing about religion, is that few have been taught the actual history. What I find is a series of mis-quotes, and otherwise plain wrong information. When it is a science thread, many of us work together to correct mistakes. I have been corrected more than once, and I will acknowledge that, even posting a fresh link stating that I was wrong. The history of Christianity, is actually fascinating, and has very little to do with modern beliefs.

Anyway, perhaps someday I will have enough time to compile everything. For now, I need to get back to work. :D

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

Clyde attacks because he thinks he knows what people's points of view are.
He does not realize many of us have come here to here each other out, learn from each other and perhaps improve our own arguments or finally cast aside our old beliefs.

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

Here's a really good one.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=32479&postid=435477

"Sarge" wrote:

Now that I am home, I will post one more thing. Hopefully, I can get a good night's sleep so I can work hard tomorrow and complete one big task on which I have been working.

Consider this. Earth is not the center of the universe. It revolves around the sun. The solar system is in the armpit of the Western Spiral Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy (another Adams reference). The Milky Way Galaxy is an average one among many others.

We are small. Insignificant. Imperfect. (No, I do not think we will not work out all the things that are mysteries to science now in a few thousand years. It is not in our capacity, I believe, now or ever. I doubt most scientists function under that assumption. The most we can hope for are theories/models that allow for increasingly better explanations/predictions.)

If you accept evolution as a premise (and all you can do, if you aren't a scientist performing an extensive literature review on it or doing research it, is accept or not accept it), then we came from lifeforms we would consider insignificant ... dirty. ([humor on]Think "Planet of the Apes."[/humor off]) So, we too are insignificant. We should be humble.

If you accept that a creator exists and if you accept some portion of the Genesis story ... that Adam was created from something like dirt and clay ... then we are insignificant ... dirty.

Weird parallel, huh?
Rather than suggest that all followers of all religions follow out of fear, why not consider the possibility that they do so out of recognition of their insignificance? If you accept that God exists, one that cares, that's pretty stunning in light of our insignificance. (Too bad some religious people do not follow the admonitions to be humble.)

With that said, hopefully I will be asleep soon!

Secular attack my patootie.

Please note: I said it is really good one, not too say whether it was a particularly deep thought or not (I will leave that up to the readers). Rather, it demonstrates Clyde does not understand where the questions (as opposed to attacks) have come from.

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

But ... but ... isn't that impossible?! Aren't 99% of us here "ideologues", unchanging and dogmatic in our following of an ideology? ;)

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

But ... but ... isn't that impossible?! Aren't 99% of us here "ideologues", unchanging and dogmatic in our following of an ideology? ;)

Of course we are. If we weren't the sun would rise in the west.

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Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

But ... but ... isn't that impossible?! Aren't 99% of us here "ideologues", unchanging and dogmatic in our following of an ideology? ;)

Yes, and we attack anything that doesn't fit our secular, religious, belief system(s) too. /s :P

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

But ... but ... isn't that impossible?! Aren't 99% of us here "ideologues", unchanging and dogmatic in our following of an ideology? ;)

Yes, and we attack anything that doesn't fit our secular, religious, belief system(s) too. /s :P

Yeah, "asking a question" is now defined as "an attack". :)
Gary, if Australia is North in some ideology (see "Foundation" by Asimov), then yes, the sun rises in the west.

Why were the recent threads on religion, especially Christianity, initiated? It is obvious that everyone has deep rooted opinions and beliefs on the subject and it is also obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject. Instead most everyone gets their dander up and starts attacking anyone with a different point of view. Eventually it gets so hostile that the mods end up pulling the plug. So, what's the point?

I would like to beg to differ on the "it is [..] obvious that no one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject" part. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and now identify as Atheist. This means I've had my opinions change at least once in my own life, and they continue to evolve as I learn more about the world around me.

But ... but ... isn't that impossible?! Aren't 99% of us here "ideologues", unchanging and dogmatic in our following of an ideology? ;)

Yes, and we attack anything that doesn't fit our secular, religious, belief system(s) too. /s :P

Yeah, "asking a question" is now defined as "an attack". :)
Gary, if Australia is North in some ideology (see "Foundation" by Asimov), then yes, the sun rises in the west.

No that direction isn't West. It isn't East either. It is Dusk, and it sets in the Dawn. So your directions are North, Dusk, Cross and Dawn, it that order. :)

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I think its time some people in this thread turned the other cheek.

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Reality Internet Personality

I think its time some people in this thread turned the other cheek.

OK.

Clyde, please slap me some more with your claims that I don't discuss issues. :)

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=76199&postid=1725563

I think its time some people in this thread turned the other cheek.

OK.

Clyde, please slap me some more with your claims that I don't discuss issues. :)

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=76199&postid=1725563

Let he without sin, cast the first stone.

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Reality Internet Personality

People play nice

The Question was asked ,Jesus ! . the poster has said that he knows of 4 Jesus's in the gospels . Whom & what gospels are you talking about ?

I know of 2 that are significant ...

Religon threads tend to get over the top when people that are too religous ask questions but don't like the answers people give back .

So Lesson is don't ask the question.......

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People play nice

...

So Lesson is don't ask the question.......

That sounds good advice for following a religion:

Do not ask questions, just follow the faith to have faith and believe.


All a form of self-hypnosis?...

All in our own world as wrought in the image of man (and women),
Martin

;-)

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Debates (attended many and participated in some) are not an Intelligent Discussion, as I prefer. Debates are not an attempt to find 'The Truth' (whatever that may be).

Debates are the same as a Criminal Trial. Not an attempt to find 'The Truth', but to Win.

Thats very true.
The SETI board Politics is "Discussion of Political Topics".
Nothing more.

Debates (attended many and participated in some) are not an Intelligent Discussion, as I prefer. Debates are not an attempt to find 'The Truth' (whatever that may be).

Debates are the same as a Criminal Trial. Not an attempt to find 'The Truth', but to Win.

Thats very true.
The SETI board Politics is "Discussion of Political Topics".
Nothing more.

plus a few pranksters , clowns , ricks ,blah blah blah

what a wonderful world intergalactic space travel will be we can't even play nice on Earth let alone out there

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