good thing is, looks like blackviper already updated his site with win10 info, which would make all the MS data mining and other OS pretend niceness pretty much obsolete, if you just disable the unwanted stuff.

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

I'd already made up my mind to stick with 7 Pro and I'm not seeing anything yet that persuades me away from that, even slightly.

Windows 7 doesn't fully support DirectX 12. If you're into games, you eventually do want full DX12 support, from both the OS and your hardware. Just see Square Enix's DX12 demo.

But luckily enough the games that use this tech aren't out yet, so there's no need to rush onto Win10 for now.

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You would have me believe you don't use iOS, Google or Android in any way? If that is the case, you may have an argument. Otherwise, your point is moot. This is the state of the art, get used to protecting yourself. The publishers have no interest in doing so....

As I said in this very thread:

Luckily Google owns all my emails (Gmail account), all my private communications (Android telephone) and I have neigh on nothing in private folders, so nothing to worry here. :)

Which of my points was moot, though? You quoted everything, so you ought to have read and understood everything. Have you?

No, actually you are correct, I did not notice your post. But then you understand, I hope. I have installed Windows 10 and the latest CCC, 15.20-150715a-184226E, without any trouble, whatsoever. That is my point though. Why is there so much screaming and gnashing of teeth over a simple OS upgrade. Especially one that was long overdue (like the jump from XP to 7). Anyhow, nothing personal. I happen to enjoy the new interface presented by Windows 10 and will continue to use it.

Peace and good luck crunching.

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Why is there so much screaming and gnashing of teeth over a simple OS upgrade.

People hate change. We've seen it with nearly every MS OS release for the past 30 years. We will continue to see it for the rest of our lives.

Why is there so much screaming and gnashing of teeth over a simple OS upgrade.

People hate change. We've seen it with nearly every MS OS release for the past 30 years. We will continue to see it for the rest of our lives.

Quite true...

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Why is there so much screaming and gnashing of teeth over a simple OS upgrade.

People hate change. We've seen it with nearly every MS OS release for the past 30 years. We will continue to see it for the rest of our lives.

Greetings Ozz,

There is nothing wrong with change, as long as it is change for the good. Windoze 10 does not seem to fit that 'good' change category, not when data collection and whatnot is 'turned on' by default. 90% of users, I would estimate, just do the 'Recommended/Express' install. I learned a very long time ago not to go that route.

And who's gonna read the whole EULA? I never do; it takes too long. Besides, it's written by lawyers anyway and in such a way that one needs to be a lawyer to understand what they say, for the most part and in my opinion.

No, I will wait for the smoke to clear before I start thinking seriously about upgrading. I think I'll get a couple of flash drives and download that sucker for the future if I do decide to do it. ;)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Why is there so much screaming and gnashing of teeth over a simple OS upgrade.

People hate change. We've seen it with nearly every MS OS release for the past 30 years. We will continue to see it for the rest of our lives.

There is nothing wrong with change, as long as it is change for the good. Windoze 10 does not seem to fit that 'good' change category, not when data collection and whatnot is 'turned on' by default. 90% of users, I would estimate, just do the 'Recommended/Express' install. I learned a very long time ago not to go that route.

True, but 'good' is in the eye of the beholder. There were a subset of users that thought Windows 95 wasn't 'good'. There were a subset of users that thought XP wasn't 'good'. Those OSes largely stayed the same over time. The only thing that changed was people's perception once they got used to the change.

Mind you, I am not dismissing the privacy concerns. But I do think they are blown out of proportion and partly unfounded. Attempts have been made here in this thread and elsewhere on the internet to circumvent the fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the scary wording. Still, people will seize upon specific portions of the EULA, take it out of context, and turn it into something that it is not.

And who's gonna read the whole EULA? I never do; it takes too long. Besides, it's written by lawyers anyway and in such a way that one needs to be a lawyer to understand what they say, for the most part and in my opinion.

Agreed, I do not have the inclination to read the entire EULA, nor do I have a law degree to understand the verbiage used. However, that's what makes it all the more important to not take the words out of context. I know a lot of internet arm-chair wannabe lawyers (I am not referring to anyone on this site specifically) that do the same to actual government law as well. It's a dangerous precedent to get involved in if you simply don't know.

An argument could be made that EULAs need to be easier to understand and read, but I think we could expect to find flying Unicorns before that happens.

No, I will wait for the smoke to clear before I start thinking seriously about upgrading. I think I'll get a couple of flash drives and download that sucker for the future if I do decide to do it. ;)

Understood. Nothing wrong with taking that approach at all. But do understand that history has seen this repeated so many times with MS OSes, and they have all been largely molehills made into mountains that subsided over time.

Change is good . The problem is Microsoft mangeling it
Nobody wants these damn tiles anywhere plus i really don't want this xbox crap and the apps that cannot be uninstalled.
I want to have control what's on my machine and that is why i run linux on the machines i work with , i couldn't care less about the crunchers ... nothing to see there really

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I came down with a bad case of i don't give a crap

Microsoft has always had a dominant vision of an OS for "everybody". This means catering to the lowest common demoninator and making things as stupid easy as they possibly can. This should directly read the opposite of customizing like most geeks like to do.

It's a tough act to try to make an OS to fit everyone, from the grandmas that only know clicking on the E means she can visit her friends on the Book of Faces or playing her games on Pogo.com to the tech who wants to remove anything they consider to be unnecessary in the OS - all the while trying to move computing along into the future and playing catch-up with features found in Mac OS X and borrowing ideas from Linux too.

As for all the apps and tiles.. Microsoft is trying to unify all platforms so that in the future, it won't matter if you're on their gaming system, their phone OS, or a tablet, you will have the same experience on all. It's not a bad vision, but that does mean things will change, and need to change. That means people will complain and say things like "My desktop is not an XBox or a tablet!". Fair enough. But to unify the experience, it needs to happen.

But yes, Microsoft does mangle it from time to time. Windows 8 was their first attempt at doing so, and the OS felt very disjointed and like it suffered from MPD. Windows 10 is far better at it, and with the ongoing updates, the experience across all platforms will become more and more unified as time goes on.

Change is good . The problem is Microsoft mangeling it
Nobody wants these damn tiles anywhere plus i really don't want this xbox crap and the apps that cannot be uninstalled.
I want to have control what's on my machine and that is why i run linux on the machines i work with , i couldn't care less about the crunchers ... nothing to see there really

Greetings Zombu2,

Hear, hear! I agree 100%. I would like a way to remove tiles and/or replace them with a verbal equivalent. I cannot read pictures, but I sure as hell can read words. Pictures take up too much real estate. I do not own, and never will own, an Xbox. I want that 'option' removed too. And yes, I don't want crap on my PC that I don't use and cannot remove. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to remove unwanted, irremovable apps. :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

And....it's back. The 353.62 driver got reinstalled last evening, despite the updates having been "hidden" by that troubleshooter hack. As I described in my Message 1707385 on Saturday morning, the troubleshooter seemed to work, hiding the driver updates and preventing them from applying over several reboots, both soft restarts and one complete shutdown and reboot. However, there was that one nagging artifact left on the Windows Updates screen showing an update for the 660 still sitting there, even though the troubleshooter didn't show it.

Over the remainder of the weekend, I went through perhaps 15-20 reboots, tinkering with different things in my attempts to figure out the problem with only 2 of 8 cores working. The driver remained unchanged through all that and nothing new was downloaded by Windows Update overnight Saturday.

Then, shortly after 8:00 PM yesterday, while I was on that machine checking something else out, the screen display starting jumping and cutting in and out. It did that for about a minute, then settled. About 2 hours later, I decided to shut the machine down for the night, and ended up having to wait about 5 minutes for the shutdown to complete. I suspect it was applying the driver update, although with Windows 10, the screen just goes black without providing any of those "Stage 1 of 3", etc., updating messages, so I have no idea what was really going on. This morning there it was, the 353.62 driver for all 4 GPUs. Checking the Windows Update history, it shows a single driver update for a GTX 660 on August 2, yesterday.

So, that's it. I think I've learned enough about Win 10 to know that it's not an OS that's ready for prime time...yet. It's certainly not something I'd want on my daily driver, which was the reason I was using the xw9400 as a guinea pig in the first place. I expect that sometime later on today, when I can get to it, I'll try rolling back to Win 7, assuming that Win 10's rollback process actually works. If it doesn't, I've got an image copy of that machine on Win XP from 2 weeks ago that I should be able to revert to.

And then I think I'll hunker down with the large crowd of folks that have decided to wait for several months to see how responsive MS is in getting Win 10's issues "fixed".

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the "show or hide" troubleshooter still shows the driver update for the 660 as hidden. However, the one for the 750Ti has disappeared from the "hidden" screen. Go figure!

-[ snip ]-

As for all the apps and tiles.. Microsoft is trying to unify all platforms so that in the future, it won't matter if you're on their gaming system, their phone OS, or a tablet, you will have the same experience on all. It's not a bad vision, but that does mean things will change, and need to change. That means people will complain and say things like "My desktop is not an XBox or a tablet!". Fair enough. But to unify the experience, it needs to happen.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Ozz,

My cell and tablet are Android driven. Luckily, Micro$oft cannot touch them. :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Change is good . The problem is Microsoft mangeling it
Nobody wants these damn tiles anywhere plus i really don't want this xbox crap and the apps that cannot be uninstalled.
I want to have control what's on my machine and that is why i run linux on the machines i work with , i couldn't care less about the crunchers ... nothing to see there really

Greetings Zombu2,

Hear, hear! I agree 100%. I would like a way to remove tiles and/or replace them with a verbal equivalent. I cannot read pictures, but I sure as hell can read words. Pictures take up too much real estate. I do not own, and never will own, an Xbox. I want that 'option' removed too. And yes, I don't want crap on my PC that I don't use and cannot remove. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to remove unwanted, irremovable apps. :)

You might not be able to read pictures, but pictures are easier to understand universally and require little or no translation to other languages.

...and you can remove tiles and replace them with tiles of your choosing if you wish. I've done it, and I find it just as handy as pinning stuff to the taskbar or to the old Start Menu.

Well after a week of attempting to put Win 10 on my Win 7 Home laptop, I've given up the ghost.

Tried twice but each time something failed, what I don't know. Before attempting a third time, attempted the normal recovery procedure, that failed, so before using the recovery disks, removed HD & attached to desktop.

Both the recovery & "C" partitions snafu.

I did intend to eventually put Linux Mint on the laptop when Win 7 "died", however, done that now & laptop faster & more responsive than what it was at new, bye bye MS. I am not some dumb user & know what I've been doing since the days of DOS, think you need to get back to the drawing board.

-[ snip ]-

As for all the apps and tiles.. Microsoft is trying to unify all platforms so that in the future, it won't matter if you're on their gaming system, their phone OS, or a tablet, you will have the same experience on all. It's not a bad vision, but that does mean things will change, and need to change. That means people will complain and say things like "My desktop is not an XBox or a tablet!". Fair enough. But to unify the experience, it needs to happen.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Ozz,

My cell and tablet are Android driven. Luckily, Micro$oft cannot touch them. :)

Understood. It's great to have options, isn't it? But that isn't going to stop Microsoft from trying to unify the experience for those sold on the Microsoft ecosystem. Again, it isn't a bad goal, nor does it make the changes "not good". It is just different and requires people to adjust to change... which goes back to: people hate change.

:-)

It is just different and requires people to adjust to change... which goes back to: people hate change.

:-)

Not always. Putting apps on an O/S that many do not want says a lot about a company. Shouldn't they be in the "Apps" store for people to decide what they want on their systems?

For Microsoft to implement the changes as you state, shouldn't they have made the transition to Win 10 a lot smoother than what is currently occurring with many?

If I want to give Win 10 a spin now, can I put it into VirtualBox as a VM Machine???

Sure you can install it in a VM such as VirtualBox.

Will I need a Key to Activate it, or can I just run it straight???

I guess it'll follow the same manner as previous Windows versions, where you can install it for 30 days without requiring to activate it.

...and an OLD NVIDIA GeForce card.

This one will not be used, as VirtualBox uses its own virtual videocard, which is a generic 2D/3D card that you can appoint a maximum of 128MB of memory to, or something alike.

While VBox will use the hardware videocard for OpenGL and DirectX 3D 8/9, it won't do OpenCL, CUDA or anything else.

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It is just different and requires people to adjust to change... which goes back to: people hate change.

:-)

Not always. Putting apps on an O/S that many do not want says a lot about a company. Shouldn't they be in the "Apps" store for people to decide what they want on their systems?

Then people would be complaining that they had to go install it after-the-fact when they didn't have to before. People have gotten used to their OS coming with certain apps, such as a media player for video and audio, or a calculator, etc. Again, the average tech will just install their own apps separately, and they still can.

It seems like a no-win proposition for the company.

For Microsoft to implement the changes as you state, shouldn't they have made the transition to Win 10 a lot smoother than what is currently occurring with many?

Truthfully... the number of complaints is just a fraction of those who had successful transitions. Squeaky wheel and all that.

A tech friend and I were just discussing our experiences with the Windows 10 upgrade and we were both quite impressed with the ease of the upgrade and how they truly made the experience something that anyone can do.

Perception is reality though. When your experience says it is bad, it is bad. It's all about context, and unfortunately statistics.

https://jonathan.porta.codes/2015/07/30/windows-10-seems-to-have-some-scary-privacy-defaults/

Go on, tell us what they really do? :-)

“Personalize your speech, typing, and inking input by sending contacts and calendar details, along with other associated input data to Microsoft”

“Let Windows and apps request your location, including location history, and send Microsoft and trusted partners some location data to improve location services.”

“Use page prediction to improve reading, speed up browsing, and make your overall experience better in Windows browsers. Your browsing data will be sent to Microsoft.“

“Automatically connect to suggested open hotspots. Not all networks are secure.”

“Automatically connect to networks shared by your contacts.”

“Send error and diagnostic information to Microsoft”
(This one cannot be disabled)

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*shrug* Pretty sure I said the privacy concerns were legit, if not overblown. Not sure why you think I would be in a position to tell you "what they really do".