I agree we need them but do we need them in the Government making the Law !!!!

Here its not the government that makes the laws.
Its the house of the representativs. Riksdagen.

Lawyers... If we didn't have them, we wouldn't need them.

I agree we need them but do we need them in the Government making the Law !!!!

I don't say ban , outlaw ,them form doing what they are there for or any thing just not as a member of parliament making Laws . Guess who's got a Bachelor of Laws .....Yep Tony Abbott the Rhodes Scholar

You don't need them, but as far as I'm aware no democracy has a rule that states that only lawyers can run for office. As for that matter, its also why you can't realistically ban lawyers from getting into the government, as that would be discrimination ;)

Here its not the government that makes the laws.
Its the house of the representativs. Riksdagen.

Yes Jan that's what i meant . Not the judiciary system they administer it not make it .

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You don't need them, but as far as I'm aware no democracy has a rule that states that only lawyers can run for office. As for that matter, its also why you can't realistically ban lawyers from getting into the government, as that would be discrimination ;)

That ugly word that is so often misused "Discrimination" .

What about a ex con that's been released from jail for murder after 10 yrs cos he got out on a technicality and is given a pardon ...he's a free man innocent under the Law !!!

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You don't need them, but as far as I'm aware no democracy has a rule that states that only lawyers can run for office. As for that matter, its also why you can't realistically ban lawyers from getting into the government, as that would be discrimination ;)

That ugly word that is so often misused "Discrimination" .

What about a ex con that's been released from jail for murder after 10 yrs cos he got out on a technicality and is given a pardon ...he's a free man innocent under the Law !!!

Are you comparing lawyer's to ex-con's?

I am not sure that ex-con's should be barred anyway as long as there is full disclosure at the polling booth.

The laws ex-con's broke were made by people. If you can bar a certain part of the population by creating laws that they are more likely to violate, then its a good way to disenfranchise a load of people who might actually vote against those law makers.

I think ex-cons should at the very least be able to vote, I am not sure what the various laws are about that.

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Reality Internet Personality

Lawyers... If we didn't have them, we wouldn't need them.

I agree we need them but do we need them in the Government making the Law !!!!

I don't say ban , outlaw ,them form doing what they are there for or any thing just not as a member of parliament making Laws . Guess who's got a Bachelor of Laws .....Yep Tony Abbott the Rhodes Scholar

You don't need them, but as far as I'm aware no democracy has a rule that states that only lawyers can run for office. As for that matter, its also why you can't realistically ban lawyers from getting into the government, as that would be discrimination ;)

You can ban anything with enough voter backing. i.e. smoking in public, that discriminates against those who wish to exercise their right to enjoy that vice.

In the early 20th century America banned consumption of alcohol.

Marijuana consumption is banned by Federal law and by all but 4 US states.

Point being there could be such a Constitutional Amendment if approved by the electorate.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Isn't a lawyer a private representative, like a private congressman?

Nope not here , otherwise known as a solicitor , barrister , Judge

Lawyers "represent" their clients.

Congressmen "represent" their constituents.

Lobbyists are congressman's clients.

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You can ban anything with enough voter backing. i.e. smoking in public, that discriminates against those who wish to exercise their right to enjoy that vice.

In the early 20th century America banned consumption of alcohol.

Marijuana consumption is banned by Federal law and by all but 4 US states.

Point being there could be such a Constitutional Amendment if approved by the electorate.

Well okay, if you trow away some of the principles the US stands for and severely modify the constitution, its possible to ban lawyers from getting elected. Not sure if thats something you want though.

I think ex-cons should at the very least be able to vote, I am not sure what the various laws are about that.

Recently here a Queensland member of the state Government which just had it's election has been "dobbed" in , by his mother and ,this is some of his record

not filing tax returns to avoid paying child maintinace


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-29/queensland-premier-annastacia-palaszczuk-sacks-billy-gordon-mp/6356718

scroll to bottom of page to see his rap sheet

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Well okay, if you trow away some of the principles the US stands for and severely modify the constitution, its possible to ban lawyers from getting elected. Not sure if thats something you want though.

The Constitution is only as good as the will of the people to force those in power to respect and follow it's framework and amendments. An educated lawyer and purported Constitutional scholar and lecturer proves everyday that certain members of government are not subject to Constitutional restriction.

Since the Socialist/Democrats can no longer force legislation through a Conservative Congress, the new tactic is death by regulation. The point here is that the President is a Lawyer, the Vice-President is a lawyer. The majority of both houses of the legislature are lawyers (with several Doctors and one Comedian). Lawyers live by BILLABLE HOURS.

How do you increase the billable hours? Write the laws and regulations is such a convoluted manner as to need a translator(Lawyer)to understand them. And the more convoluted the more time billed to the victims(clients).

Shakespere got it SO right in "Henry V" '...first we kill all the lawyers.'

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Since the Socialist/Democrats can no longer force legislation through a Conservative Congress, the new tactic is death by regulation. The point here is that the President is a Lawyer, the Vice-President is a lawyer. The majority of both houses of the legislature are lawyers (with several Doctors and one Comedian). Lawyers live by BILLABLE HOURS.

How do you increase the billable hours? Write the laws and regulations is such a convoluted manner as to need a translator(Lawyer)to understand them. And the more convoluted the more time billed to the victims(clients).

So its a secret conspiracy by lawyers to infiltrate the government to make them write laws so lawyers have more work to do? Riiiiight....

Regardless of what "form" a government takes, they are all "recipes". Just like recipes, they require ingredients...

...unfortunately many governments today are lacking a vital ingredient...

...TRUST.

So its a secret conspiracy by lawyers to infiltrate the government to make them write laws so lawyers have more work to do? Riiiiight....

Good counter argument.............riiiiight..............

It's not a secret, it's not a conspiracy, it's a fact supported by empirical evidence. The 'Affordable' Healthcare Act is a stack of documents 3 feet thick! The IRS regulations are THOUSANDS of pages written in a manner that they can be construed in whatever direction suits the enforcer.

Most companies and even individuals are regulated to DEATH by the EPA. How do you know what regulation you may be in jeopardy of violation? You have to hire a lawyer........

Of course you have to open your eyes in able to see, a fact the Government (Lawyers) rely on daily to keep their phony jobs.

And when they themselves violate a law or regulation they claim some form of immunity or say it's 'necessary' for the 'safety' or 'common good'.

Are you listening HRC? Now there's a Lawyer everyone can trust. (That was the sarcasm font)

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Who are govern who?
If the right people don't have power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs

It's not a secret, it's not a conspiracy, it's a fact supported by empirical evidence. The 'Affordable' Healthcare Act is a stack of documents 3 feet thick! The IRS regulations are THOUSANDS of pages written in a manner that they can be construed in whatever direction suits the enforcer.

It is a conspiracy the way you put it. You are claiming that politicians are making laws needlessly complex just so they can get their non politician lawyer friends more work. That suggests there is some kind of cooperation between the two groups, and since that cooperation is not out in the open, its secret, making it a conspiracy.

Its also just not true. Yeah, some laws are very complex, but that isn't because lawyer politicians wanted to give their practicing lawyer buddies more work.

The affordable care act is a complex piece of legislation because it deals with an incredibly complex problem. Its regulating health care, in an extremely complicated fashion, for the entirety of the United States. There are dozens of stakeholders involved, each with their own interests and lobbies that try to get those interests in, and with a lot of political compromises in order to get the thing to pass through the legislature. It could have been more simple, but that would require the solution to be more simple as well. You'd end up with universal health care or no regulated health care, but those policy options were both unacceptable for the Republicans and Democrats.

The Tax code is complex because basically the American congress is corrupt. Its complex because its choke full of nice little loopholes that were put in there by every lobby representing some sector of the economy in order to minimize corporate taxes and taxes for the wealthy. Its designed to be complex so people like Mitt Romney only have to pay like 13% taxes over their income.

Most companies and even individuals are regulated to DEATH by the EPA. How do you know what regulation you may be in jeopardy of violation? You have to hire a lawyer........

Again, the EPA is dealing with a complex policy field which naturally results in complex rules.

Of course you have to open your eyes in able to see, a fact the Government (Lawyers) rely on daily to keep their phony jobs.

You realize that although those politicians have a law degree, most of them never practiced law right? They go straight into politics, and after they are done serving in public office, they take a nice well paying job as consultant for some big corporation. Not to consult that firm of the actual laws mind you, but because those politicians have a nice network that those firms just love to exploit.

It is a conspiracy, but not secret. Here is the socialist plan of war laid out by, Obama and Clinton's mentor, Saul Alinsky:

Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 – June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals. He and his third wife (Irene McInnis) were the socialists that
Barack Obama has studied and followed their community organizer philosophy.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare –Control healthcare and you control the people

2) Poverty –Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt –Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control –Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare –Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.

8) Class Warfare –Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

WOW, I couldn't have scripted the current Administration's agenda more clairvoyantly if I were Kreskin(a charleton mind reader from the 70's).

Riiiiight...........it's all in our heads..........

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Riiiiight...........it's all in our heads..........

Yep, it really is.

1) Healthcare –Control healthcare and you control the people

The government hardly 'controls' healthcare. It just doesn't. All it does is ensure that insurance is mandatory, so everyone has at least some level of access to health care. Is that a bad thing? Well, considering that America has some of the WORST healthcare in the industrialized world, no its probably about time someone tried something new.

2) Poverty –Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

Sorry, but thats been an issue since Reagan. Its simply the result of trickle down economics, and its not Obama's fault.

3) Debt –Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

Well then I guess your pal Reagan was a socialist as well. After all, he did massively expand the government, raised taxes and increased the debt.

4) Gun Control –Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

Despite what people think, Obama should literally be counted as the NRA's best friends. He has not touched upon gun control one little bit.

5) Welfare –Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

Again, these things have been around since long before Obama.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

Still very much in the hands of local and state legislatures. Because you know, the Federal Government has no constitutional power in the field of education?

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.

Its called the separation of church and state and has nothing to do with socialism. It is however, very much a part of the state not forcing one particular brand of religion down everyones throats and letting people decide for themselves what to believe in. You know, that thing called liberty.

Also, there are plenty of religious private schools all around the US. If people want to, they can just send their children there.

8) Class Warfare –Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Yeah sorry, but that is simply the result of having 1% of the people own more than half the money and assets in the country, of having an obscene divide between the super rich and everyone else, of no longer having a middle class. That has nothing to do with any policy supported by the White House, that is simply what happens when the rich get all the money.

WOW, I couldn't have scripted the current Administration's agenda more clairvoyantly if I were Kreskin(a charleton mind reader from the 70's).

Well, apart from the fact that the current administration does non of these things in the way you think they are doing it.

The Tax code is complex because basically the American congress is corrupt. Its complex because its choke full of nice little loopholes that were put in there by every lobby representing some sector of the economy in order to minimize corporate taxes and taxes for the wealthy. Its designed to be complex so people like Mitt Romney only have to pay like 13% taxes over their income.

Is this fact or your opinion?

A Fact, is a Fact.
How you interpret a Fact, is an Opinion

Corruption Perceptions Index 2014: Results:)
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
Oh dear.
US has the same corruption as in Germany and Britain.

Since the Socialist/Democrats can no longer force legislation through a Conservative Congress, the new tactic is death by regulation. The point here is that the President is a Lawyer, the Vice-President is a lawyer. The majority of both houses of the legislature are lawyers (with several Doctors and one Comedian). Lawyers live by BILLABLE HOURS.

How do you increase the billable hours? Write the laws and regulations is such a convoluted manner as to need a translator(Lawyer)to understand them. And the more convoluted the more time billed to the victims(clients).

So its a secret conspiracy by lawyers to infiltrate the government to make them write laws so lawyers have more work to do? Riiiiight....

Half of them only win one election and then have to go back into private practice. No conspiracy to give yourself more work ......

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A perception is not a fact.

It is a fact that many perceive governments to be corrupt.