Clyde you ignoring the FACTS - the shear number of Americans killed EVERY year by guns, be it legal, or illegal. Far more than those killed annually by guns in Europe - you are AFRAID to give you your weapon of murder, mayhem and destruction. These weapons are held legally, or illegally, by the population of your country, and you persist in the denial of that one FACT - MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED IN YOUR COUNTRY by these guns than in the whole of of Europe.

You persist in harking back to events of the last century, events from which Europe has learnt a lot, and has taken steps to prevent them happening again. However America refuses to take the step, the very simple step, required to reduce the waste of human life resulting from all those guns "washing around" in your society. Control the guns better and you will reduce that human toll.

So let's say the US makes it illegal for it's citizens to own guns. What will be the next statistic? Knives? Do we make them illegal too? Where does it end? At what point do we accept that making things illegal doesn't solve the problem, it just shifts it to another source? And the only people that will abide by the law are the law-abiding citizens in the first place. People who have no regard for the law will still acquire guns and use them regardless of their illegal status.

I morn the loss of human life due to violence here in the US as much as the next person, I just disagree that making all guns or tighter gun control laws will make it better. I also fail to see the relevance of comparing the US's laws with other nations/countries considering most other countries have no problem making increasingly restrictive laws and forcing it's citizenry to live in very specific ways... meaning less individual freedoms. That is the basis the US was founded on, and there's a reason why we still fight to this day to protect that which no other country seems to understand.

Why should a goverment fear a law abiding civilian who has a weapon? They should be a hell of a lot more afraid of the criminals in hate groups who have them. Why pass all these stupid laws against honest hard working law abiding folks and go after the criminals who use firearms for crimes. How about a law that says if you use a firearm or even allude to having one during the commission of a crime you get 30 years in prison with no possible parole. Dont you think that would make the gang bangers think twice?

Here in the states we have career criminals with felony records longer than your arm , But they still get to walk. Why, Idiots now run the asylum.

Hardly. Having weapons while committing a crime already carries heavier punishments and it never stopped gang bangers. Besides, they are far more involved in drug the drug trade, which by itself carries ridiculously heavy penalties (and that also never stopped anyone from dealing crack).

And again, the problem is not the law abiding citizen with a gun, the problem is the easy access to guns. Their prevalence in American society has made access to them also very easy for criminals and has driven their price down, making them much more affordable for criminals, also changing the whole cost benefit picture of using guns while committing crime.

The problem with allowing everyone to carry arms, is that EVERYONE can carry arms.

This guy is nutjob, racist, terrorist who is so heavily armed that he has ended up in a stand off with the police when they tried to take him to task about his continuing illegal actions. This criminal got his guns legally!!!

CNN exclusive: Rancher says he's not racist, still defiant over grazing battle

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Reality Internet Personality

The problem with allowing everyone to carry arms, is that EVERYONE can carry arms.

This guy is nutjob, racist, terrorist who is so heavily armed that he has ended up in a stand off with the police when they tried to take him to task about his continuing illegal actions. This criminal got his guns legally!!!

CNN exclusive: Rancher says he's not racist, still defiant over grazing battle

The problem with Freedom of Speech is that EVERYONE can say whatever they want. Of course, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. The same goes for those with guns that would us them to harm others unprovoked.

Such is the burden of freedom.

The problem with Freedom of Speech is that EVERYONE can say whatever they want. Of course, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. The same goes for those with guns that would us them to harm others unprovoked.

Such is the burden of freedom.

The burden resulting from some nut job using a gun is considerably different from the burden resulting from some nut job speaking their mind. What about my freedom to walk down the road without being shot by the aforementioned nut job?

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The problem with allowing everyone to carry arms, is that EVERYONE can carry arms.

This guy is nutjob, racist, terrorist who is so heavily armed that he has ended up in a stand off with the police when they tried to take him to task about his continuing illegal actions. This criminal got his guns legally!!!

CNN exclusive: Rancher says he's not racist, still defiant over grazing battle

I love Stewarts 'The Daily Show' coverage on this particular nutjob.

The problem with Freedom of Speech is that EVERYONE can say whatever they want. Of course, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. The same goes for those with guns that would us them to harm others unprovoked.

Such is the burden of freedom.

The burden resulting from some nut job using a gun is considerably different from the burden resulting from some nut job speaking their mind. What about my freedom to walk down the road without being shot by the aforementioned nut job?

Yes, some freedoms are more dangerous than others. I don't think the answer is to take away those freedoms simply because a small minority of people are unable to handle that freedom responsibly.

The problem with Freedom of Speech is that EVERYONE can say whatever they want. Of course, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. The same goes for those with guns that would us them to harm others unprovoked.

Such is the burden of freedom.

The burden resulting from some nut job using a gun is considerably different from the burden resulting from some nut job speaking their mind. What about my freedom to walk down the road without being shot by the aforementioned nut job?

And what would prevent said nut job from just swerving his car over and kill you?
Has it ever dawned on anyone that maybe mental health care sucks in the US. To many politicians with no medical expertise using the feel good laws they pass are to blame.

Does everyone need to be in a mental ward. No, But if a kid has a history of violence and setting animals on fire, Id say he needs to be in one.
How many times have you read in the paper about a guy who killed a dog getting a stiffer sentance than an idiot who kills someone.

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Old James

Mental health is a completed issue, and there is some truth in James' comments. But not all nut bars are alike, or need to be treated alike. Sadly, western governments have reduced expenditures in this area in the last few decades, in the name of balanced budgets. The reality is that the effected people are a small percentage of the population, and don't represent a significant voting block. The chickens are coming home to roost, and some of them are armed.

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Mental health is a completed issue, and there is some truth in James' comments. But not all nut bars are alike, or need to be treated alike. Sadly, western governments have reduced expenditures in this area in the last few decades, in the name of balanced budgets. The reality is that the effected people are a small percentage of the population, and don't represent a significant voting block. The chickens are coming home to roost, and some of them are armed.

And what lasting impression does something like this leave I wonder...?

In that pictures context, You can make up what ever side of the boat your on.

I taught My 3 daughters how to shoot when the when they were young. Why You ask, For two reasons. The first one was to that guns are not toys and need to be treated with respect and safety at all times. The second reason was to get rid of that curiosity.

My oldest daughter is a better hunter than I am.
My middle daughter has nothing to do with them.
My yougest daughter after going through predeployment training for Iraq in 2005 can outshoot me.

They all know how to safely handle a firearm.

Get the nut jobs off the street in the US. I have a nehpew who is a whack job. He smokes that bath salt crap. Hes been reported to the cops a lot of times. BUT he hasnt hurt anyone yet. So he gets a pass. So somebody will die before he gets mental and or drug help.

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Old James

Get the nut jobs off the street in the US.

Its not that easy, even if you have the best mental health care system in the world. I mean, this is mental healthcare we talk about. That is about equal parts guesswork as it is science. If you get cancer, you have clearly defined symptoms that fit the specific form of cancer you have. If you open up the DSM and look at how mental disorders are defined, one you will find that a lot of symptoms are related to multiple disorders and two, you will probably be able to diagnose yourself with a number of disorders, even if you are completely healthy because they are so vaguely defined. Mental disorders are not like normal diseases because they can have a whole range of causes and they do not follow the predictable pattern of normal diseases.

Furthermore, how do you distinguish between an introvert who is completely harmless and an introvert who is about to go off and kill someone? Outwardly they are almost exactly the same, the only difference is that one is harmless and just an overall nice guy while the other cracked and turned violent. You cannot distinguish the two until it is to late.

Also, the way we treat mental disorders is often extremely dangerous. Those pills they give you? Yeah, that stuff is poison and yeah, they can cause violence. Ask yourself, how many of those spree shooters turned out to be on anti depressants already? But okay, then what? No longer give anti depressants to people when in plenty more cases they do their job? What do you do when one vital part of the treatment in mental disorders causes in a significant number of people side effects such as violent behavior?

Finally, we haven't mentioned the costs yet. A country that has serious issues in dealing with normal sick people is fundamentally incapable of carrying the costs of high quality mental health care. Unlike normal diseases, most mental disorders are pretty much chronic. Depression is a chronic disease. You can alleviate the problem, it can disappear for a while, but it is never gone. You will be popping pills and seeing a therapist the rest of your life in most cases. And that ain't cheap, and the people that need it most, the poor, do not have the money to buy anti depressants and see a therapist for the rest of their life. Oh, and did I mention that about half of the adult population in the US has to deal with a mental disorder at some point in their life? Yeah....fixing your mental healthcare is going to bankrupt you.

You might try prevention, but that would pretty much require a total overhaul of American society, which I dont see happening any time soon....


So yeah, have fun with that.

Oh, and did I mention that about half of the adult population in the US has to deal with a mental disorder at some point in their life? Yeah....fixing your mental healthcare is going to bankrupt you.

You might try prevention, but that would pretty much require a total overhaul of American society, which I dont see happening any time soon....

So yeah, have fun with that.

So Europe has a clean bill of health then? They're all normal healthy nutjobs, so nothing to worry about :-)

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Hi James, how are you? :)

In that pictures context, You can make up what ever side of the boat your on.

And you put your side very well :)

I taught My 3 daughters how to shoot when the when they were young. Why You ask, For two reasons. The first one was to that guns are not toys and need to be treated with respect and safety at all times. The second reason was to get rid of that curiosity.

My oldest daughter is a better hunter than I am.
My middle daughter has nothing to do with them.

(I'm afraid I'm with her on this one :))

My youngest daughter after going through predeployment training for Iraq in 2005 can outshoot me.

They all know how to safely handle a firearm.

I agree that if the right to own guns continues to be exercised by someone after they've become a parent (therefore making guns part of a child's landscape) children are going to need teaching (much like we have to teach our children how to cross roads safely - simply because they are there). It is heartening to know that many parents do so responsibly. What we see from the outside however, is a self-fulfilling circular argument handed down from generation to generation... which I think is always going to puzzle and perplex us given that we are not caught up in that particular wheel. :)

My point with the picture was more that when our children are young we don't know what effect, pressures or life events (or chemical substances in the case of your nephew) are likely to have on them, or what mental health issues are likely to befall them and their families as they grow up. (The Newtown case :( demonstrated that only too well.) I think it's a shame that money can be found to fund the pro-gun lobby, but not to provide mental health services for those who need it.

Get the nut jobs off the street in the US. I have a nehpew who is a whack job. He smokes that bath salt crap. Hes been reported to the cops a lot of times. BUT he hasnt hurt anyone yet. So he gets a pass. So somebody will die before he gets mental and or drug help.

I am truly sorry to hear about your nephew James :( and I sincerely hope he does get help. Perhaps you could answer a quick question for me? Car insurance is an accepted part of owning and running a car. Allegedly (I say that because the industry is so good at wriggling out of their end of the deal at times) so I say again :) allegedly, they cover motorists from themselves and each other in both accident, negligence and dangerous driving incidents. Do those owning guns in the USA have to have similar insurance?

In the meantime, thank you for your well made point to my post :)

Before I go... a confession :) The picture was a bit of tease. (Sorry :)) It's context is: far right wing South African (feel free to insert the words racist and paranoid wherever you like). It's setting, a church hall.

Would that change anyone's view? :)

ps: today... I am mostly... feeling... mischievous :)

So Europe has a clean bill of health then? They're all normal healthy nutjobs, so nothing to worry about :-)

I never said that. But our nutjobs generally don't have access to guns.

Where did this silly European sense of superiority come from?

Overhaul American Society?

First. Cleanup your mess. Then lecture other's.

We don't have spree shooters every few months. Nor do our nutjobs have access to guns.

Where did this silly European sense of superiority come from?

Overhaul American Society?

First. Cleanup your mess. Then lecture other's.

We don't have spree shooters every few months. Nor do our nutjobs have access to guns.

...true, they use machetes instead!

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Where did this silly European sense of superiority come from?

Overhaul American Society?

First. Cleanup your mess. Then lecture other's.

We don't have spree shooters every few months. Nor do our nutjobs have access to guns.

...true, they use machetes instead!

Which are less dangerous than guns because a machete has a range of ~5 feet, depending how long your arm is.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Which are less dangerous than guns because a machete has a range of ~5 feet, depending how long your arm is.

And how often does that happen?

Question for the last two posters: -

Care to tell Lee Rigby's family that?

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