Fracking

Fracking 'could harm wildlife'

Classic weasel word, 'could' is not the same as 'would'.

says research commissioned by leading wildlife and countryside groups.

Who i bet don't have any form of agenda.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

The hazards of some of these chemicals.

http://lockthegategippsland.com/information/fracking-chemicals-their-uses-and-hazards/

Rather biased list. Take their entry for Hydrochloric acid as an example:

Extremely corrosive. Inhalation of vapour can cause serious injury. Ingestion may be fatal. Liquid can cause severe damage to skin and eyes. Threshold Limit Value – 5 ppm. Lethal to fish from 25 mg/l or more. Toxic for aquatic organisms due to pH shift

They neglected to mention we have a stomach full of it. ...

Gee whiz! Is that why a stomach injury is usually fatal unless treated immediately, and why people die of stomach ulcers?


Diluted, then not good but small badness on the scale of things. However, concentrated enough to break open rock and... Can you think what?...

Now get real?

You can drown in your own blood even... (Essential for your life but also some people die from that...)

All on and in our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Hello everyone! :) Have been lurking about reading your very interesting thoughts and was wondering if you'd like to read mine? :)

Clyde said this (hi Clyde):

Remember that people in this Board, against 'Non-Green Energy' are 'Plugged' into SETI, and are polluting the Planet with their Unnecessary use of electricity.

Therefore: They should set an example to the rest of us, by Shutting Down Their Computer's, and other polluting electrical devices, which are not necessary to keep a 'Roof Over Their Heads' and 'Food On The Table'.

He said this in response to Bob (Hi Bob) saying this:

So who is going to be the first to get totally unplugged and go live in a cave somewhere? Grow your own food, make your own clothes and live in the dark from sunset to sunrise to be completely green.

Which is why I am saying this :)

Could I please? I would miss SETI and boincing, but not really much else I can think of. Do you know of any caves with a little land or space to forage that won't get me into trouble for trespassing :) I would love some true darkness where I could look up at the sky at night and actually see the stars. Perhaps I've just been living too long in a big city. Would it be okay if I at least started with some clothes from my wardrobe though (I know - it's cheating :)) at least until I've worked out how to sew leaves together with grass and a stick, and to avoid any public indecency issues whilst I do so. :)

The fact is none of us could if we wanted to. Even if we owned the land that we did it on, someone would come along at some point and round us up and pop us somewhere "for our own good". It would be good... until then.

In response to Мишель (hi Мишель!) Major Kong had the following to say (Hi Major Kong!):)

Sure, the alternatives can help out some times in some places, but they can NOT (except for nuclear fission -- and how many people want those near them) carry the base load.

For that, you need oil/gas/coal power plants. Of the three (oil, gas, and coal), natural gas is by far the cleanest to burn (both in CO2, and in most other pollution as well).

What are we all gonna do? Use the technology available to extract all we can, and hope we can develop nuclear fusion before it all runs out?

Or turn out the lights, and go back to living in caves and trees?

Well you already know the latter would work for me :) but it doesn't half sound depressing for the rest of you. :)
Sorry, That should read :(
... because it is sort of implying that what we should be doing tomorrow is what we are doing today... which is not really an improvement on what we did yesterday... which is not a lot of progress overall. The points made about environmental impact of using renewables are good ones. But they should not stand baldly alone when our yesterday today and tomorrow scenario has and is leaving dirty great big fingerprints all over the place as we...write!

James said {hi James}

I think the world needs an invention where you throw organic waste into a bin and the bacteria and or nanobots turn it into energy.

Working on it as we speak! :) Tad short on nanobots. Plenty of bacteria judging by the pong. Will keep you posted, or pass out trying. :)

Whether ideas like that could work we won't know till we try - but the concept is excellent. There are two things we are particularly good at. Using energy and producing waste. Is it possible that for once we could put together two wrongs and make a right? We have become so dependent on energy for our technology alone, that it's impossible to buy a candle during a power failure! Is that mad or what?

And Chris....
Hi Chris! How are you? Still avoiding that meusli I see :) Don't blame you - oddly cardboardy :) Any way, you said:

The world has become lazy about using energy as its always been an abundant commodity, but that won't be the case for ever. In the meantime, and back on topic, it is estimated that fracking techniques, properly and safely used, could find vast reserves of gas that can be tapped while we look for alternative energy sources. Fracking will happen, because we need it to, and we will find ways around the problems.

I definitely agree with your opening statement, but I worry a little about the last and the term "it has been estimated" brought on a bit of an eye seizure (but I'm okay now :)) because I hope we'll be quicker at solving the problems than we have been in the past. Whilst it's a litter of brain damaged kittens that are having to be put down because of gas seeping up into the barn they were born in after fracking began beneath it, some may have no problem with it. How fast would we be if we started to see that in our own babies? I'm not sure we "need" this energy as much as we're being told we do. Do we need it more than our health?

In Texas, Colorado, and Pennsylvania for example, the common factor in the following emerging symptoms is that they are all occurring near fracking sites. That's why the heads of this industry don't want it in their backyard. After all, how can you enjoy all that lovely money when you are suffering from rashes, nosebleeds, severe headaches, have difficulty breathing, joint pain, intestinal illnesses, memory loss and more?

With the release of the gas we are seeking comes thousands of gallons of contaminated water. It contains the original fracking chemicals, plus heavy metals and radioactive material that were once safely buried in the shale.

The industry that uses this technology calls its product "natural gas". What it is is half a billion years of safe storage of methane and everything that surrounds it, surrounded by compressor stations that compact the gas for pipeline transport, ponds of contaminated flowback, flare stacks that burn off gas impurities, diesel trucks in quantity, thousands of miles of pipelines and more (across rural America) that gives us something new to burn whilst at source, pumps carcinogens and toxins into water, air and soil.

Does it not alarm people that some of us on this planet today can set light to the water coming out of their taps? Is that just a neat little party trick we'd like to be able to do also?

The corporations that are exploiting the shale in Pensylvania for example have received lavish federal entitlements: exemptions from the Clean Air, Clean Water, and Clean Drinking Water Acts, as well as the Superfund Act, which requires cleanup of hazardous substances. The industry does not have to call its trillions of gallons of annual waste "hazardous". Instead, its euphemised as "residual". Pensylvanians still don't know all there is to know about what's going on around them because the fracking companies are allowed to keep secret many of the chemicals they use.

Precisely how are we going to do any better here when we're getting advice and following in the footsteps of industry experts like those?

Ooh. I got a little heated there. Sorry. Didn't mean to. :)

But spare a thought for the greens and the save the planet peeps,
wringing their hands over fracking, and saying tut tut over their muesli
and carrot juice in their eco friendly yuppie apartments. Protesting at
fracking sites at weekends gives their Barbour waterproof jackets and
Hunter Balmoral wellies an airing whilst walking the Labrador and
sucking a Werthers original. Followed by 1/2 pint of best bitter at the
country pub with a packet of Tyrells lightly sea salted crisps. You have
to have some sympathy with them the poor dears.

Chris! Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? :) It is easy to poke fun at them I know but, their concerns are genuinely held, and not without foundation. Humbug to waterproofs! I soak that rain up like a sponge and sometimes I suck it into my shoes too - so bleuch to wellies! Bleuch bleuch BLEUCH to werthers and tyrells, especially together!

But I ask you, what did the labrador do to you? :)

I did like what you said in response to the Simonator's (Hi Simonator!) understandable wariness of the use of the word "could" in relation to concerns about our wildlife.

You said:

The report was conducted by the Angling Trust, the National Trust, RSPB, the Salmon & Trout Association, The Wildlife Trusts and the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust. They are all nationally respected bodies, and if they have genuine concerns they should be listened to.

I heartily second that. Our wildlife don't book an appointment for themselves at the vet's when they're feeling poorly. They suffer in silence and crawl off somewhere to die in pain alone. If they're found alive, often all we can do is end their suffering as quickly as we can. We have hemmed in our wildlife all over this planet. It is therefore our responsibility to limit any damage we do to the space they have left. It's not unreasonable to assume that the ailments mentioned above could affect animals too. We only need our current generation of breeding wildlife to produce brain damaged infants to bring about an ecological chain reaction which I have yet to find evidence of being included in any of the risk assessments that have been carried out by our government departments.

We should be protesting about fracking - much as a teacher protests when homework has not been satisfactorily completed.

Anyway - that's what I think about fracking at the moment. :) But I haven't read the guardian's view yet (can't find my sandals :)) so I might be back... Hope everyone's having a lovely day!

Methane has been coming out of the Ground, Lakes, Streams, and Oceans, Naturally, Forever.

With Fracking, The EnviroFreaks have Another Weapon to use against Corporations. They are so Happy.

99.9999% of Methane is already there. Has always been 'seeping' out. No One has been Testing Like Crazy till now. The Greenies are using Naturally Occuring Seepage of Methane against The Man.

Believe those Documentaries and Articles. Why Not? They Show and Say what yOu want. For yOur Cause.

Ginn it up Broheims.

Got Cave?

fO shO

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Brighton beach has fairly liberal views.

Sorry. Removed the link - was eating. :)

Ever been within 3 feet of one when they shake their coat after being in a deep puddle or gone swimming?

:) yes, frequently. And not just labradors. Try a St Bernard. Feels like going through a car wash when you forgot you weren't in a car. :)

All 100% down to fracking?

All 100% not?

Our wildlife don't book an appointment for themselves at the vet's when they're feeling poorly. They suffer in silence and crawl off somewhere to die in pain alone. If they're found alive, often all we can do is end their suffering as quickly as we can.

Which is why I support many animal charities and also the Hunt Saboteurs.

:) :)

We should be protesting about fracking as much as a teacher protests when homework has not been satisfactorily completed.

Fracking should only be allowed after exhaustive investigations into the safety of it, and full evaluations as to possible future effects upon wildlife and humans.

:) I'm glad we agree. :) Hope you're having a nice evening :)

Methane has been coming out of the Ground, Lakes, Streams, and Oceans, Naturally, Forever.

With Fracking, The EnviroFreaks have Another Weapon to use against Corporations. They are so Happy.

99.9999% of Methane is already there. Has always been 'seeping' out. No One has been Testing Like Crazy till now. The Greenies are using Naturally Occuring Seepage of Methane against The Man.

Believe those Documentaries and Articles. Why Not? They Show and Say what yOu want. For yOur Cause.

Ginn it up Broheims.

Got Cave?

fO shO

Hi there. :) How are you? May I call you fO shO?
You definitely are right when you say that methane naturally does seep out. And in some ways removing it and putting it to use till we find other means to supply our energy needs once traditional resources have run dry, is not necessarily, a bad idea at all. I think where a lot of the reservations about fracking come from are whether the methods that are used to extract it are safe. I don't have a cause in the sense I think you're using the term. I just care about a better life for all life on our planet and that's all. I know for us that also means jobs and being able to heat our homes when its cold etc, so am aware that it simply isn't possible to get it right all the time - but if we can try not to do it too wrong would be nice. This is one of those opportunities to do so and I would like to think we all would want that. It is wise to examine some of the problems that are being attributed to fracking because if genuine, they surely help the fracking industry to refine their methods of extraction and to reduce the potential risks of litigation that may potentially harm their profit margins...

And no, fO shO, I don't have a cave. You don't perhaps know of one available though do you? :) and whether there'd be any fracking going on in the neighbourhood? :)

Best wishes, Anniet

Hi anniet

Yes, I was being somewhat Sarcastic.

Pro/Anti Fracking:

We do need the extra energy, not only for us. But for the 2.5 to 3 Billion people, attempting to rise out of poverty. They will need VAST amounts of cheap energy.

We do need to understand that ALL the pollutions we have been emitting into the Air/Water/Land have bad effects.

Is there not a middle ground?

Hi Clyde! :) How are you? Well I hope?

I am one of those people who think there must be and that many of us are in fact already standing in it. If we care about our planet - which I think everyone who's posted on this board does, then we just need to find the next step we can murmur our agreement on. Ok, with every step the noise level will rise I'm sure... :) and we might lose some people along the way (metaphorically speaking of course :)) but in the process we might get to learn a lot about why they feel the way they do. For example, how can someone who depends on the oil industry for a job to feed their family and clothe their children, see any benefit accruing to them in the immediate now sense of the word if laws were brought in tomorrow to close the industry down. They will home in on the information that will justify the status quo and if enough do that, and they shout loud enough together, maybe they'll see their children graduate and go onto university as a result.

The green side of the argument tends to look further into the future than that, but their concerns are firmly embedded in the dirty, exploitative way in which we use this planet now, ways we inherited in large from our forebears. Such concerns are equally as valid if harder to quantify on a personal level. Labels don't help either side. If we use them it should really be in the interests of brevity rather than generalised insult. It's easier to respect both viewpoints as long as we keep in mind that we all care about our home.

But maybe I'm being naive. Or maybe it's too late. Maybe we have allowed ourselves to get so wound up by the plethora of opposing agenda's out there, that we haven't noticed them attaching their strings to us. So we respond as expected every time one is pulled. Anyway... :) Just me thinking... again! :)
Hope everyone's enjoying themselves!

Ps. We also all do SETI... and I love SETI!