I've grown stronger in the last three months, going through my mother's illness, than in the sum of my 46 years. Life on this planet really adapts and moves forward somehow.

It sure does Gordon:) I believe you two, being so close, gives you and her strength, you have a 'mission' together. I remember Dirk (Sutaru Tsureku) here a couple of months ago. His mother was dying, he was very worried and posted regular updates here in the Cafe. They are both doing quite well now:)

I remeber that Julie.
Im trying to pick the right words about what I want to say. Its more emotion and feeling then a concrete thought. So please bare with me.

I was ten years old when I found out what death was. That was when my Grandfather died. My parents and everyone else tried so hard to hide it from us kids. As the oldest in my family I knew something was up. And after he died we were not even allowed to go to the wake or the funeral. To this day I feel that is and was wrong. As far as I know every single one of us is going to die. And hiding it from anyone is wrong.
Fast forward to 2003. My Grandmother( my grand fathers wife) who was 96 was slipping fast. Every single member of the family from young to old was there to say goodbye. And when my dad died in 08 the sane thing.

Well, I dont know what im feeling is what is being typed. But never sugar coat death to your kids. They deserve the truth also.

I don't have any children (that I know of), but with 4 nieces and a nephew, and 40 years of watching other people's children grow up around me, I have to agree with James. You can't hide anything from kids for very long. They learn quick, and pick up on the attitudes and non-verbal cues the "grown-ups" give off. So you tell them what you can, in a way appropriate for their age and maturity. That shows respect for them, and helps build trust between you and them.

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

I've grown stronger in the last three months, going through my mother's illness, than in the sum of my 46 years. Life on this planet really adapts and moves forward somehow.

It sure does Gordon:) I believe you two, being so close, gives you and her strength, you have a 'mission' together. I remember Dirk (Sutaru Tsureku) here a couple of months ago. His mother was dying, he was very worried and posted regular updates here in the Cafe. They are both doing quite well now:)

I remeber that Julie.
Im trying to pick the right words about what I want to say. Its more emotion and feeling then a concrete thought. So please bare with me.

I was ten years old when I found out what death was. That was when my Grandfather died. My parents and everyone else tried so hard to hide it from us kids. As the oldest in my family I knew something was up. And after he died we were not even allowed to go to the wake or the funeral. To this day I feel that is and was wrong. As far as I know every single one of us is going to die. And hiding it from anyone is wrong.
Fast forward to 2003. My Grandmother( my grand fathers wife) who was 96 was slipping fast. Every single member of the family from young to old was there to say goodbye. And when my dad died in 08 the sane thing.

Well, I dont know what im feeling is what is being typed. But never sugar coat death to your kids. They deserve the truth also.

I agree James, My Grandpa died when I was 9.5, so yeah I knew something had happened, I wasn't able to go to the funeral or to anything else important, but what's done, is done, short of a viable time machine that is.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I feel with you James. I was not allowed to say goodbye either. I don't have a conchias(?) memory of my two Greatgrandmothers. I was only two then, but still have that sense of loss in my heart.
The first funeral I ever attended was in the US. My ex's cousins ex Wife. A young life snuffed out by a hit and run.
My kids have always been allowed to make their own choice.

OK I take that back. Burried a Son in 1979. Lived only a few minutes due to a bad DR. Born to soon. Even back then he could have had a chance.
So if you see me posting about two sons, Danimal and Cookietaster, don't think Gabriel is far from my heart.
It helped the healing process, as Cookietaster was given the same first name.
Both my living sons have four first names, but that is taking things of topic.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

I feel with you James. I was not allowed to say goodbye either. I don't have a conchias(?) memory of my two Greatgrandmothers. I was only two then, but still have that sense of loss in my heart.
The first funeral I ever attended was in the US. My ex's cousins ex Wife. A young life snuffed out by a hit and run.
My kids have always been allowed to make their own choice.

OK I take that back. Burried a Son in 1979. Lived only a few minutes due to a bad DR. Born to soon. Even back then he could have had a chance.
So if you see me posting about two sons, Danimal and Cookietaster, don't think Gabriel is far from my heart.
It helped the healing process, as Cookietaster was given the same first name.
Both my living sons have four first names, but that is taking things of topic.

Im sorry to hear about your loss Uli. I can barley remember my mom have a premature boy back in 1955. He didnt even get a name. I was 3 years old. Thats is the earleist memory I have. And it seems that is the only one from that age.
He was buried on my dads brothers grave who was killed in action during the Korean war. I think its kind of fitting though. A brother who I never knew buried with an Uncle I never knew.

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[/quote]

Old James

His Grandfather had one wish. I want to see his grave. Wish granted.

---

Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

I've never seen My Grandparents graves, they're out in the Inglewood Cemetery I think, I'd have to look up exactly where they are buried in LA County, it's not the same area where My Brother is buried at, He's at a Whittier Narrows Cemetery, I've only been to His site once, He's there cause that's where His widow wants to be buried at. Meanwhile My Moms ashes stay here with Me, I'm unable to bury Her or Myself under current law without losing My SSI benefits, since Burial costs more than the $1,500.00 limit that's been in place since 1972, so My relatives will have to bear the burden.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Uli, so sad :( I lost a baby too, but early in pregnancy, which I think is much easier to bear than what you have been through. So sorry. And of course, for Julie too, who has been through so much, and still is. :(

Something I need to do before I die is visit my brother's grave. No one in my family ever has :( I don't even know if it is still there :( or what they do with old graves in Zambia. At eight months old, I was a little younger than you James so didn't have the pain of saying goodbye. For you to have remembered it at such a tender age, it must have deeply affected you :(

I didn't know my brother existed until my mother told me it was my fault he didn't :( and all the rational thought in the world doesn't change the fact that I need to make my peace with that. Visiting his grave, or at least being somewhere near it where I can touch the earth he is now part of would do that I think. To say hello, so that I can then properly say goodbye :)

I suspect you were being "protected" Vic when you did not attend your grandfather's funeral. Perhaps for some children that is the right approach, but I don't think for many. Excluding children that are old enough to know what sadness feels like, suppresses their freedom to grieve properly and openly in the company of others I think. :( So I think Donald, you are right when you said "So you tell them what you can, in a way appropriate for their age and maturity. That shows respect for them, and helps build trust between you and them." So true!

note: I can recommend not taking a six month old baby girl suffering with a severe case of adenoids to her great grandmother's funeral however (my daughter :) baby-sitter cancelled at last minute) she snored loud enough to wake the dead and caused a fit of giggles in all the mourners - at which point, her and I had to leave the service because the right reverend conducting it got the giggles too :/

My wife lost a child too during pregnancy (5th month).
My younger sister gave birth to 2 dead daughters.
It wasn`t easy for me so i can imagine what a woman feels.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

So sorry to hear Mike:(

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

So sorry to hear Mike:(

That is so sad. :( The loss a dad feels in circumstances such as those is just as bad. Not only do they mourn the baby they never had a chance to get to know, but the sense of helplessness that comes from seeing their partner suffer the grief of empty arms and an aching heart whilst trying to be strong for them, is immeasurable I think. So sorry to hear that Mike, truly am :(

Chris you are so right. I can't even begin to imagine the horror and suffering of all those men who fought and died for their countries. As for those who survived the sheer awfulness of it all, experiencing the loss of friends who'd become brothers - and witnessing death delivered with such destruction... it beggars belief. That any of them were able to return home and pick up their lives again is incredible.

Whilst we share many, we do have different strengths too (us girls and boys I think :)) when we get it right it makes for wonderfully supportive partnerships don't you think? :)

So sorry to hear Mike:(

That is so sad. :( The loss a dad feels in circumstances such as those is just as bad. Not only do they mourn the baby they never had a chance to get to know, but the sense of helplessness that comes from seeing their partner suffer the grief of empty arms and an aching heart whilst trying to be strong for them, is immeasurable I think. So sorry to hear that Mike, truly am :(

Chris you are so right. I can't even begin to imagine the horror and suffering of all those men who fought and died for their countries. As for those who survived the sheer awfulness of it all, experiencing the loss of friends who'd become brothers - and witnessing death delivered with such destruction... it beggars belief. That any of them were able to return home and pick up their lives again is incredible.

Whilst we share many, we do have different strengths too (us girls and boys I think :)) when we get it right it makes for wonderfully supportive partnerships don't you think? :)

So many of those men, Did have problems. Today they would all have been diagnosed as suffering from PTSD. But they ( excuse the over used term ) Sucked it up and went about living and providing for their familys. All the while suffering mental anguish I cant imagine.

And Annie, When you do find that right partnership, I agree its the best feeling in the world.

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[/quote]

Old James

So sorry to hear Mike:(

That is so sad. :( The loss a dad feels in circumstances such as those is just as bad. Not only do they mourn the baby they never had a chance to get to know, but the sense of helplessness that comes from seeing their partner suffer the grief of empty arms and an aching heart whilst trying to be strong for them, is immeasurable I think. So sorry to hear that Mike, truly am :(

Chris you are so right. I can't even begin to imagine the horror and suffering of all those men who fought and died for their countries. As for those who survived the sheer awfulness of it all, experiencing the loss of friends who'd become brothers - and witnessing death delivered with such destruction... it beggars belief. That any of them were able to return home and pick up their lives again is incredible.

Whilst we share many, we do have different strengths too (us girls and boys I think :)) when we get it right it makes for wonderfully supportive partnerships don't you think? :)

So many of those men, Did have problems. Today they would all have been diagnosed as suffering from PTSD. But they ( excuse the over used term ) Sucked it up and went about living and providing for their familys. All the while suffering mental anguish I cant imagine.

And Annie, When you do find that right partnership, I agree its the best feeling in the world.

Sucked it up, yeah that sounds like My Dad, 'He came home from Europe(in 1946) and just wanted to pick up where He left off', at least that's what I was told. Mom also said He got more strict as time went on and that He'd changed since He'd left.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

So sorry to hear Mike:(

That is so sad. :( The loss a dad feels in circumstances such as those is just as bad. Not only do they mourn the baby they never had a chance to get to know, but the sense of helplessness that comes from seeing their partner suffer the grief of empty arms and an aching heart whilst trying to be strong for them, is immeasurable I think. So sorry to hear that Mike, truly am :(

Chris you are so right. I can't even begin to imagine the horror and suffering of all those men who fought and died for their countries. As for those who survived the sheer awfulness of it all, experiencing the loss of friends who'd become brothers - and witnessing death delivered with such destruction... it beggars belief. That any of them were able to return home and pick up their lives again is incredible.

Whilst we share many, we do have different strengths too (us girls and boys I think :)) when we get it right it makes for wonderfully supportive partnerships don't you think? :)

So many of those men, Did have problems. Today they would all have been diagnosed as suffering from PTSD. But they ( excuse the over used term ) Sucked it up and went about living and providing for their familys. All the while suffering mental anguish I cant imagine.

And Annie, When you do find that right partnership, I agree its the best feeling in the world.

Sucked it up, yeah that sounds like My Dad, 'He came home from Europe(in 1946) and just wanted to pick up where He left off', at least that's what I was told. Mom also said He got more strict as time went on and that He'd changed since He'd left.

Of course he was changed when he came home. Any man who goes off to war and survives comes home changed.
That most of them managed to get on with life is a testament to courage.
I have a late Uncle who was on a destroyer in the Pacific during WW2. I had allways thought he was a mean SOB. Some day I need to ask my cousin just what went on to make him that way. If he even knows?

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[/quote]

Old James

Chris you are so right. I can't even begin to imagine the horror and suffering of all those men who fought and died for their countries. As for those who survived the sheer awfulness of it all, experiencing the loss of friends who'd become brothers - and witnessing death delivered with such destruction... it beggars belief. That any of them were able to return home and pick up their lives again is incredible.

So many of those men, Did have problems. Today they would all have been diagnosed as suffering from PTSD. But they ( excuse the over used term ) Sucked it up and went about living and providing for their familys. All the while suffering mental anguish I cant imagine.

Sucked it up, yeah that sounds like My Dad, 'He came home from Europe(in 1946) and just wanted to pick up where He left off', at least that's what I was told. Mom also said He got more strict as time went on and that He'd changed since He'd left.

Of course he was changed when he came home. Any man who goes off to war and survives comes home changed.
That most of them managed to get on with life is a testament to courage.
I have a late Uncle who was on a destroyer in the Pacific during WW2. I had allways thought he was a mean SOB. Some day I need to ask my cousin just what went on to make him that way. If he even knows?

Destroyers and Destroyer Escorts were used primarily to protect Aircraft Carriers, Battleships, and supply convoys. They also provided artillery support for amphibious landings. In the Pacific, in addition to typhoons and other rough weather, they faced attack from Japanese aircraft, surface ships, and submarines. Even for our smallest warships, it took several hits to sink a ship. Such attacks caused fires, boiler and ammunition explosions, and flooding, all with many injured or killed. And for those who survived a ship sinking, rescue was not always certain, and sometimes they were rescued by the enemy. Naval warfare can be just as traumatic as land or aerial combat.

James, if you know the name or hull number of the ship, you can find its history or contact its Crew Association through sites such as the Naval Historical Command or HullNumber.com

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

Thanks Donald. I will have to get in contact with my cousin out in Oregon and find out what ship or ships he was on.

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[/quote]

Old James

I would like to thank all my friends who supported me here, through thick and thin... Thank you guys:)

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

There are good'uns in this world Julie, and you are one of them.

+1000

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

There are good'uns in this world Julie, and you are one of them.

+1000

tears

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

1000+1

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Got a call this morning at 5 AM that my Sister's Husband died during the night. He has been fighting cancer for about 2 years. I knoew it was about over when they put him on morphine drip about 2 weeks ago.

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Cheers everybody
Life is short so don't sip
Beer speaks, people mumble