6a: Setting Europe Ablaze - Part 2


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Sirius B
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Message 1458249 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 17:35:40 UTC

1: The End is Near
2: The End of the Beginning
3: What Next
4: M.I.A
5: Big Bang Looming
6: Setting Europe Ablaze

The Mekon up to her tricks again

"It is also pushing for changes to the Lisbon Treaty to give greater European control over policy. Germany's closest ally in Europe, France, opposes such a move, as do other member states."

Hmmn, why is that Merkel?
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Message 1458254 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 17:55:13 UTC

The Mekon up to her tricks again

If Germany can preserve the Euro then It can preserve it's economics high status.
If the Euro folds then along with it goes a large tranche of German wealth
creating ability too.
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Message 1458418 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 8:41:43 UTC

From the previous thread, also welcome Joe

Sirius B
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Message 1458460 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 13:54:21 UTC

Hollande's Sauce (©Chris S) turns bitter

So we can expect an influx of Frenchies then...
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Message 1458466 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 14:31:04 UTC

They are short of money, simple fact. I doubt it will affect the immigration figures. All it might do is invoke some civil unrest in France, but then again that is nothing new in their history. He has a sauce to do it but not much other choice. We'll just sit and watch from over the ENGLISH Channel.

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Message 1458470 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 14:38:14 UTC - in response to Message 1458466.

The English channel no longer needs watching, you forgot the Channel Tunnel.
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Message 1458479 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 15:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 1458466.

They are short of money, simple fact. I doubt it will affect the immigration figures. All it might do is invoke some civil unrest in France, but then again that is nothing new in their history. He has a sauce to do it but not much other choice. We'll just sit and watch from over the ENGLISH Channel.

Meh, it effects only a few top incomes and the vast majority of people agree with it, so I doubt you'll see any civil unrest.

This whole measure is more about symbolism anyways.

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Message 1458659 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 6:44:14 UTC

Hollande invoked this tax rise because of his waning support amongst the
French electorate. Had he still been popular I suspect he would have kept this
tax hike on the back burner.
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Message 1458707 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 10:05:46 UTC

Border controls

The issue is hotting up as I thought it might do. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. If Cameron goes ahead he risks a back bench revolt by 90 senior MP's plus a large chunk of the electorate. If he doesn't he will face breaking EU law, and get considerable opposition and maybe fines from within the EU. The simple position is this :-

Bulgarians and Romanians gained the right to visa-free travel to the UK in 2007, when their countries joined the EU. Since then, temporary restrictions have been in place meaning Romanians and Bulgarians have been able to work in the UK only if they are self-employed, have a job offer, or are filling specialist posts for which no British worker can be found. These restrictions will be dropped on 1 January, having been extended to the maximum period of seven years. Mr Cameron has said the government "can't stop these full transitional controls coming to an end".

That is the Governments view.

How are local authorities going to be able to support unrestricted new immigrant individuals and entire families without additional financial support or increased local taxation?”

A good question.

But the letter, written by Conservative Grassroots chairman Robert Woollard and "backed by local association chairmen, former chairmen and other senior activists", says they "respectfully disagree" with the government's position. It says a "safeguard clause" written into the EU accession treaty for the two countries "allows for the re-imposition of temporary restrictive measures in any member state if it is 'undergoing or foresees serious labour market disturbances'.

"Long-term UK youth unemployment - at 21% - is the third highest within EU and OECD [Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development] countries," it adds.

A possible solution, by reading between the lines of the accession treaty?

My own view is that we extend it for a further 3 years to give time for the EU Referendum. If we vote to come out of Europe the issue is moot anyway. in the meantime we stay as we are i.e.

able to work in the UK only if they are self-employed, have a job offer, or are filling specialist posts for which no British worker can be found.

We already have enough economic migrants who are here for their benefit but not for ours. I said before that the UK is not Europes refugee camp, and I'll go further and say that neither are we Europes Job Centre or Employment Bureau either. But with just 2 days to go it's likely going to happen.

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Message 1458741 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 11:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 1458659.

Hollande invoked this tax rise because of his waning support amongst the
French electorate. Had he still been popular I suspect he would have kept this
tax hike on the back burner.

No, it was one of the first things he tried to do. Only people where doing difficult and it proved more difficult for him to actually create this little tax hike. What happened just now is that some court confirmed that he could go ahead with the tax hike.

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Message 1458743 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 11:43:23 UTC - in response to Message 1458707.

We already have enough economic migrants who are here for their benefit but not for ours. I said before that the UK is not Europes refugee camp, and I'll go further and say that neither are we Europes Job Centre or Employment Bureau either. But with just 2 days to go it's likely going to happen.

Trust me, no one in Bulgaria and Romania thinks that you are. Most of them aren't even interested in going to Britain. They are all going to Southern European countries. The whole idea that millions of Bulgarians and Romanians are going to be moving to the UK or other Norther countries is a myth created by politicians for their own political benefit.

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Message 1458746 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 11:52:35 UTC - in response to Message 1458743.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 11:52:50 UTC

I believe the estimated total quoted over here was approx. 80,000 so where your statement of millions come from is unknown.

Care to enlighten us?
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Message 1458750 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 11:59:09 UTC

Trust me, no one in Bulgaria and Romania thinks that you are. Most of them aren't even interested in going to Britain. They are all going to Southern European countries. The whole idea that millions of Bulgarians and Romanians are going to be moving to the UK or other Northern countries is a myth created by politicians for their own political benefit.

I really sincerely hope you are right. I would also suggest that the Tabloid press love the shock horror headlines it produces as well, doesn't half sell extra news-copy. But in case you are wrong we have to protect ourselves in some way and it seems we are doing so at long last.

New NHS charges

But this NHS rip off by foreigners has been going on since 1948, when the NHS was first introduced, why has it taken 65 years to clamp down?

Free NHS care is offered to anyone living in the UK who has temporary or permanent permission to do so

Asylum seekers, non-European Economic Area nationals who do not have permission to live in the UK, British expats, and visitors usually have to pay for treatment

The UK has reciprocal agreements with most European nations and 28 other countries, and under these visitors are given free NHS care

The NHS should claim these costs back from the relevant governments - but research suggests just £73m a year is recouped out of more than £460m at present.

Lets face facts. Where would you rather have your baby or a serious operation. Bulgaria, Romania, or England?

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Message 1458751 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:03:30 UTC - in response to Message 1458750.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 12:15:37 UTC

But that's the main problem with the UK and the EU. Out of the 28 nations, we are the only one to fully implement their regulations.

Should we attempt to counter those regulations, we face fines.

Still haven't seen anything from the European Parliament or the European Commission regarding Spain's refusal to accept the EHIC's.
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Message 1458756 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:17:58 UTC - in response to Message 1458751.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 12:18:31 UTC

But that's the main problem with the UK and the EU. Out of the 28 nations, we are the only one to fully implement their regulations.

Excuse me? The only one? Everyone has to implement them or face fines. And the UK gets opts out of every single bit of European legislation so half of the time new EU legislation doesn't even apply to the UK.

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Message 1458757 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:19:26 UTC - in response to Message 1458756.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 12:20:54 UTC

Is that a fact? So why hasn't Spain been taken to task regarding acceptance of the EHIC's?

Edit:

For those who are unaware of EHIC

European Health Insurance Card
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Message 1458759 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:32:31 UTC

They launched legal action back in May.

Legal Action

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Message 1458761 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:37:57 UTC - in response to Message 1458759.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 12:39:12 UTC

Yes I know. however, as far as I am aware, there has been no resolution to date.

Ah Yes I hear the Europhiles say, it will take some time as we have to follow procedures.

Yes, but the larger the EU gets the longer it's going to take - more bureaucratic B/S - Well, they have to justify their position don't they and all on the taxpayer's dollar!

Edited for grammmer - Don't want Ageless on my case over the use of its and it's :)
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Message 1458762 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:39:03 UTC - in response to Message 1458757.
Last modified: 30 Dec 2013, 12:40:01 UTC

Is that a fact? So why hasn't Spain been taken to task regarding acceptance of the EHIC's?

Edit:

For those who are unaware of EHIC

European Health Insurance Card

Several reasons. First, usually by the time a regulation is created, countries usually still have several years to implement them. So some countries might be slower than others. Second, when countries are clearly to late with implementation, the commission can start a procedure to get countries to implement regulations. However that is a pretty long process and it still may take months if not longer before the Commission finally reaches the phase where it can go to court. Court cases also take time, so by the time the Commission can begin sending fines its years later.

EDIT: and no, this procedure does not gets longer once the EU grows. Size of the EU is irrelevant in these cases.

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Message 1458763 - Posted: 30 Dec 2013, 12:40:54 UTC - in response to Message 1458762.

Another case in point proving that the EU is becoming too large and unwieldy. Well done.
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