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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19101 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
It is the gap from now until nuclear fusion or some other unknown power source are developed that is the problem. It is not helped when politicians make wild claims for green power, as shown in this article about the claims of Scottish politicians and the facts as detailed by Oxford University engineering study about wave power in the Pentland Firth. Wave goodbye to hopes of tidal energy exports, Scots politicians told |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20383 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
It is the gap from now until nuclear fusion or some other unknown power source are developed that is the problem. It is not helped when politicians make wild claims for green power, as shown in this article about the claims of Scottish politicians and the facts as detailed by Oxford University engineering study about wave power in the Pentland Firth. From that article: "14GW" previously assumed... That is then reduced to "1.9GW" with the assumption that "Three rows of turbines would be the maximum that could be deployed without seriously eroding the power-generating capacity of the tidal flow". That looks to be surprisingly pessimistic... Also, only 3 rows of turbines to kill the flow?... I strongly suspect some arbitrary 'minimal value of non-disturbance' has been assumed/used rather than calculating for a much higher maximum energy return which will slow the tidal flow. Also, this quote looks to be a little suspicious: "This would produce a power output that could match or exceed that of wind turbines," Is that a clever swipe to divert grants/funding?... Regardless, even with overly pessimistic figures, that still adds up to [about] half of the power used by Scotland. Good and interesting but a curious angle... Note also that is only one of a number of tidal races around the UK. All on our only planet, Martin [edit] As usual, detail lost in the journalism... Instead see: Pentland Firth turbines could generate "almost half of Scotland's electricity" "the researchers assumed that, to be viable, the potential energy generated by each tidal turbine would have to be greater than that of off-shore wind turbines" So, grabbing 10% of the potential available energy assuming various current economics is perhaps not too unreasonable. I wonder if the undersea tidal turbines could be combined with above-sea wind turbines on the same fixtures for better economy and power output?... [edit] See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20383 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
There was some grandiose scheme for the Severn Estuary that never got off the ground. That one is always getting sunk by the too-greedy construction consortium wanting a multi-billion guaranteed corrupt gravy train to pour stupid amounts of CO2-costly concrete and the country and environment be damned. Meanwhile, our money is now to instead be squandered on an ever-expanding "High Speed 2" train line to shave off a few minutes inter-city time for an elite. How can a train line be so expensive and take so long to construct?! All for such little gain... Meanwhile, the same money could either fund discrete tidal stream turbines around the whole of the UK, no monstrous mega-barrage needed. Or, speed up the development of Fusion power... It's all our choice... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20383 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
A possibility to keep using coal as a clean energy source. Thanks for that. Looks to be developing nicely. I wonder if that can come into play before and instead of the next round of dirty old tech is allowed in for the rushed next round of replacing old coal power in UK?... There's a lot of current old coal spluttering along beyond end of life... And predictably the power industry is ramping up the rhetoric of "the lights will go out, so lets build anything dirty quick"... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Coal is natural but dug up by us. So the below is or isn't natural? And what pumps out more Co2? Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Please give real answers. Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Meanwhile, our money is now to instead be squandered on an ever-expanding "High Speed 2" train line to shave off a few minutes inter-city time for an elite. How can a train line be so expensive and take so long to construct?! All for such little gain... Being kind here a bit aren't you Martin?...don't you mean, "Ruddy wasted" Some Europeans countries, including France, are dropping any further plans to extend their High Speed train networks. Reason being that advances in communications technology will render long distance HS travel unnecessary. HS2 wont go ahead, we can't afford the £100 billion price tag that this whole project is now going to cost. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
I prophesy that HS2 will go ahead. ...Oh no it wont!! The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile} Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51469 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Tidal turbines, eh? Now....I wonder just how long it shall take for the environmentalists to pipe up and claim they would kill too many fish? Same as the wind turbine/bird argument. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile} If they do start to construct the line it will eventually go down the same road that TSR2 went.....will get cancelled before fully completed. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20383 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Tidal turbines, eh? I should imagine the environmentalists will be all for most of the types of undersea turbines. The blades are broad and squat and turn slowly (water is a LOT heavier/denser than wind and flows comparatively slowly also). So little danger to fish and seals. Larger mammals have echo location and would likely be scared off by the unnatural noise in any case. More of concern will be the hazard to fishing trawlers and large vessels... Which also offers the hope of the areas becoming marine sanctuaries to keep the marauding trawlers of destruction away altogether... Overall, for the comparatively small areas to be exploited/protected, we should gain a big win all round, including for rejuvenating the marine environment to allow catching MORE fish! All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51469 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Tidal turbines, eh? Well, good news then. I would suggest that in the name of safety and enhancing the positive aspects you hope for, a boating/fishing free zone be enforced in their vicinity. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Tidal turbines, eh? Owls and eagles have VARY good eye site and still get killed by wind turbines. Reckon they wont learn till a whale get turned into sushi? Damn tree huggers..... Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile} Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-) Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile} Well, they do seem to have their heads in the clouds at times so anything is possible. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20383 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-) Just a hint of cynicism?... For both of the Bristol Barrage and HS2 schemes, there does seem to be something of a grandstanding stance for the present politicians to burn their names into history with some great UK-changing project. Corruptly with a very eager construction industry desperate to squander 50 to 100 BILLION POUNDS? Whatever the project is almost seems irrelevant. Can we have an all-UK ITER + DEMO fusion reactors for that please instead? Likely less cost and with grand payback guaranteed! Might even save the planet rather than burn it up more quickly. All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-) I said, honest. I'll buy three Unicorns and one rainbow. What you do with the money is all up to your country. I don't care. Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30697 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
So now you want man to play with ocean currents. Aren't they what is keeping this world cold in the first place. Now you want to slow down the air conditioner because we are getting hotter? Go post this in the denial thread. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Coal is natural but dug up by us. What pumps out more Co2, the photo or us? Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
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