Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?


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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1326507 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 23:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 1326491.
Last modified: 10 Jan 2013, 23:48:24 UTC

Interesting ...

The vast majority of the guns in the database were confiscated because of illegal-possession charges.

The vast majority guns were taken from otherwise law abiding citizens who were stopped for a traffic ticket and didn't have an unavailable concealed carry permit.

"Assault weapons were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban," he said in the report.

No s*** Sherlock. They cost too damn much for the average street hoodlum to buy.

Now I just wonder if someone will run the numbers to see if the ban drew attention to the weapons, making them more likely to be used in the ban than before because of the publicity concerning their effectiveness. Wouldn't that be sweet. :)
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Message 1326738 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 18:05:03 UTC - in response to Message 1326507.

Interesting ...
The vast majority of the guns in the database were confiscated because of illegal-possession charges.

The vast majority guns were taken from otherwise law abiding citizens who were stopped for a traffic ticket and didn't have an unavailable concealed carry permit.

"Assault weapons were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban," he said in the report.

No s*** Sherlock. They cost too damn much for the average street hoodlum to buy.

Now I just wonder if someone will run the numbers to see if the ban drew attention to the weapons, making them more likely to be used in the ban than before because of the publicity concerning their effectiveness. Wouldn't that be sweet. :)

I think you misread the story. The story only seems to point out that weapons with High Capacity magazines were more commonly confiscated after the ban was lifted. God bless Capitalism. It seems the ban was doing its job. preventing the illegal use of high capacity magazines by criminals and citizens alike
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Message 1326775 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 19:29:42 UTC - in response to Message 1326742.

Interesting.......
The vast majority of those who wish to obliterate our gun rights either have never owned one, never knew how to use one, or never had to employ one for their self defense.

I can plead guilty on all accounts. I have owned, been trained, and had to employ.

And Obama, who threatens our rights by Presidential decree, has many of the weapons which he threatens to deprive the public of, deployed on every edge of HIS safety window whenever in public. What the F do you think the secret service has under their coats. Not six shot pistols, I guarontee......
He's OK as long as HIS safety is assured.

But we end up with situations like this. Not the first nor will it be the last unless some sensible regulations are enforced.

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Message 1326966 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 5:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 1326738.

Interesting ...
The vast majority of the guns in the database were confiscated because of illegal-possession charges.

The vast majority guns were taken from otherwise law abiding citizens who were stopped for a traffic ticket and didn't have an unavailable concealed carry permit.

"Assault weapons were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban," he said in the report.

No s*** Sherlock. They cost too damn much for the average street hoodlum to buy.

Now I just wonder if someone will run the numbers to see if the ban drew attention to the weapons, making them more likely to be used in the ban than before because of the publicity concerning their effectiveness. Wouldn't that be sweet. :)

I think you misread the story. The story only seems to point out that weapons with High Capacity magazines were more commonly confiscated after the ban was lifted. God bless Capitalism. It seems the ban was doing its job. preventing the illegal use of high capacity magazines by criminals and citizens alike

I think you didn't read deep enough. If the only charge is illegal-possession, then why are they criminal? The old adage, outlaw guns and then only outlaws will have guns, seems to apply. Now if they were taken off a criminal who was charged with some other crime, those weren't part of "the vast majority" which is important. Does this mean police are chasing down otherwise law abiding citizens to turn them into criminals because they are carrying a gun or failed to register it, and not chasing robbers, rapists and murderers? Is this how you want your tax dollars spent on police matters? Or are you saying police only stop people who are guilty of a crime? If so why do we even bother to have judges and juries?

The database study doesn't apparently address a critical issue; the reason the police stopped the individual. If all stops were of parolees and felony suspects then there is a point to the data. If the stops were of people at random, e.g. traffic stops, then the data do not show a cause an effect relationship between criminal activity and high capacity magazines. What it shows is that honest people didn't get high capacity magazines, not that criminals didn't get high capacity magazines.

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Message 1327737 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 0:33:48 UTC

It seems to me that there are at least four separate types of problems with firearm control.
First and probably the most common are legal firearms killing people in accidents.
Second is street crime.
Third is the mentally unbalanced, this one produces the most horrific results.
The fourth is organized crime. This can be anything from drug cartels to political organizations wanting to overthrow the government.
If we want to reduce the killings a broad approach will not work, these discrete problems require discrete solutions.
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Message 1327745 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 0:51:40 UTC

If we want to reduce the killings a broad approach will not work, these discrete problems require discrete solutions.


We Already Have MILLIONS OF LAWS, REGULATIONS, PROCEDURES, etc. etc. etc. They Are Discrete. Where have they gotten US?

Discrete Is A NO NO NO. NO WORKEE.

BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA is The Only Way to Stop Humans From Being Human.

Or. Something Put In The Air, Water, Food to make US Compliant.

Or When Born, Doctors will Slip Something Into Our System To Make US Behave.

Discrete? Laws? Regulations? All That Type Of Guv Rubbish? NO WAY.

Society Shunning/Banning/Exiling US. NOPE

It Will Have To Be A WORLDWIDE VOODOO CURSE OF GOODNESS. Poof! Done!

HAPPY PILL CITY.

PROFessor S. Say: Got White Rabbit?
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Message 1327760 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 1:56:39 UTC
Last modified: 22 Mar 2014, 12:45:34 UTC

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Message 1327761 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 1:58:17 UTC - in response to Message 1327745.

If we want to reduce the killings a broad approach will not work, these discrete problems require discrete solutions.


We Already Have MILLIONS OF LAWS, REGULATIONS, PROCEDURES, etc. etc. etc. They Are Discrete. Where have they gotten US?

Discrete Is A NO NO NO. NO WORKEE.

BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA is The Only Way to Stop Humans From Being Human.

Or. Something Put In The Air, Water, Food to make US Compliant.

Or When Born, Doctors will Slip Something Into Our System To Make US Behave.

Discrete? Laws? Regulations? All That Type Of Guv Rubbish? NO WAY.

Society Shunning/Banning/Exiling US. NOPE

It Will Have To Be A WORLDWIDE VOODOO CURSE OF GOODNESS. Poof! Done!

HAPPY PILL CITY.

PROFessor S. Say: Got White Rabbit?

A couple of points for the one who used to be a worm.
We are people therefore we are not perfect but that does not mean we can not try to better. To do less is not the nature of the beast.
I did not mention laws I do suggest new ideas are needed, you contributed none. You are a quitter.
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Message 1327782 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 3:56:01 UTC - in response to Message 1327737.

It seems to me that there are at least four separate types of problems with firearm control.
First and probably the most common are legal firearms killing people in accidents.
Second is street crime.
Third is the mentally unbalanced, this one produces the most horrific results.
The fourth is organized crime. This can be anything from drug cartels to political organizations wanting to overthrow the government.
If we want to reduce the killings a broad approach will not work, these discrete problems require discrete solutions.


Number one is education. Technology can only do so much. However, idiots are more ingenious than genius can plan for. Education will help, but some can't be taught; note this applies to 2, 3, and 4 as well.

Number two is intractable. However if we get rid of drug laws, and other prohibitions e.g. prostitution, gambling, then we lessen at least one large driver of crime.

Number three is simple. Ban the crazy. If there are no crazies on the street then there are no crazies shooting up schools. -- Sounds about the same as banning guns to accomplish the same thing. The thing to remember is a crazy can go off with a knife or a bomb as well as a gun. Control the crazy and get better results.

Number four is two different problems. Organized crime isn't that different than street crime. Political organizations -- only terrorists if they fail -- aren't likely to be dissuaded. The only thing that can be done is better compromise is society.

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Message 1327814 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 5:43:02 UTC

So, when The Shoot 'em Up Hollywood Movies are MADE IN NY(With Sandy Relief Monies), is there going to be A 7 SHOT CLIP/MAG LIMIT for the Blast Away Scenes between Good Guy and Bad Guy? You Know, Like The NEW LAW/REG Gov C. has implemented?

OF COURSE NOT!

Come to New YOrk, Hollywood, MAKE MOVIES and Be Sure To Use The NEVER ENDING CLIP/MAG For The KILL SCENES. Yep.....per New YOrk.

And DEM/Lib Celebs, be SHO and Make DEM COmercials telling US How BAD DEM GUNS ARE. OK? GOod.

PROFessor S. Say: Contributing To The Mayhem is The American Way. Right NY? he ahe ahe hehe
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Message 1327906 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 12:35:39 UTC

Troops Ordered To Kill All Americans Who Do Not Turn In Guns .

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Message 1328035 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 19:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 1327906.

Guy, I hope they don't find your hidden bunker.
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Message 1328040 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 19:49:31 UTC - in response to Message 1328035.

Guy, I hope they don't find your hidden bunker.


I kinda hope they do.. but that aside I think we see the reason that at LEAST a certification of mental health is needed before firearms can be aquired.
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Message 1328042 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 19:55:20 UTC - in response to Message 1327782.

...

Number three is simple. Ban the crazy. If there are no crazies on the street then there are no crazies shooting up schools. -- Sounds about the same as banning guns to accomplish the same thing. The thing to remember is a crazy can go off with a knife or a bomb as well as a gun. Control the crazy and get better results.

..

Ban the crazy? So crazy people are less than human and should be afforded no rights, no liberty? Should we go back to the Victorian era and lock them all away in asylums so no one has to look at them?

Or better yet, shall we go the way of Hitler and get rid of the mentally infirm using a more permanent method?

Mentally ill people are still people. Please try to remember that.
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Message 1328045 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 20:03:48 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:57:11 UTC

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Message 1328049 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 20:13:35 UTC - in response to Message 1328042.

...

Number three is simple. Ban the crazy. If there are no crazies on the street then there are no crazies shooting up schools. -- Sounds about the same as banning guns to accomplish the same thing. The thing to remember is a crazy can go off with a knife or a bomb as well as a gun. Control the crazy and get better results.

..

Ban the crazy? So crazy people are less than human and should be afforded no rights, no liberty? Should we go back to the Victorian era and lock them all away in asylums so no one has to look at them?

Or better yet, shall we go the way of Hitler and get rid of the mentally infirm using a more permanent method?

Mentally ill people are still people. Please try to remember that.


Mental Disorders in America

Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year


The National Institute of Mental Health, The Numbers Count: Mental Disorders in America

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Message 1328074 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 21:05:39 UTC - in response to Message 1328042.

Or better yet, shall we go the way of Hitler and get rid of the mentally infirm using a more permanent method?

I didn't expect Godwin's law out of you Es?

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Message 1328095 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 22:32:01 UTC - in response to Message 1328042.

...

Number three is simple. Ban the crazy. If there are no crazies on the street then there are no crazies shooting up schools. -- Sounds about the same as banning guns to accomplish the same thing. The thing to remember is a crazy can go off with a knife or a bomb as well as a gun. Control the crazy and get better results.

..

Ban the crazy? So crazy people are less than human and should be afforded no rights, no liberty? Should we go back to the Victorian era and lock them all away in asylums so no one has to look at them?

Or better yet, shall we go the way of Hitler and get rid of the mentally infirm using a more permanent method?

Mentally ill people are still people. Please try to remember that.

I would recommend they be treated.. yes even forcibly if they present a threat.
But of course that would fit well with a national health plan. Extended to cover mental health.
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