Republicans Can't Handle The Truth


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Reed Young
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Message 1303603 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 17:45:44 UTC

You won't see this story on Fox, and you won't read it in the Wall Street Journal.

But it really happened. And if you recently voted Republican, more of this sort of political propagandizing by the most powerful elected Republicans is what you have voted to help enable. Whichever policy you support, suppressing the facts and suppressing non-partisan, professional analysis as Senate Republicans just did, is simply un-American.

Nonpartisan Tax Report Withdrawn After G.O.P. Protest
By JONATHAN WEISMAN
Published: November 1, 2012

WASHINGTON — The Congressional Research Service has withdrawn an economic report that found no correlation between top tax rates and economic growth, a central tenet of conservative economic theory, after Senate Republicans raised concerns about the paper’s findings and wording.

The decision, made in late September against the advice of the agency’s economic team leadership, drew almost no notice at the time. Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, cited the study a week and a half after it was withdrawn in a speech on tax policy at the National Press Club.

But it could actually draw new attention to the report, which questions the premise that lowering the top marginal tax rate stimulates economic growth and job creation.

“This has hues of a banana republic,” Mr. Schumer said. “They didn’t like a report, and instead of rebutting it, they had them take it down.”

Republicans did not say whether they had asked the research service, a nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress, to take the report out of circulation, but they were clear that they protested its tone and findings...


Decide for yourself whether Senate Republicans had any legitimate complaint about the "tone" or the "findings" of the CRS report that they have tried to suppress.
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Message 1303619 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 17:59:03 UTC

They probably can't face up to reality......

"This will be an acid test for the Republicans. The old guard won't give up so easily. You only have to watch Fox News, a virtual land of denial where many commentators refused to acknowledge the results late into the night. Above all Rove, who kept resisting even after his network had called the race for Obama."

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Message 1303620 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 17:59:12 UTC

From the analysis of the two parties after the election on BBC's NewsNight, it appears, from the consensus, that the USA has moved on culturally and religion is holding back the Republicans. Stuck in a 1950s early 1960s time warp on attitudes and policies.
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Message 1303633 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 18:19:33 UTC - in response to Message 1303620.

John, in terms of the cultural battle, it is interesting that the Teapublican partisans which dominate the Republican Party today are largely older white men.

These folks were the younger folks who were part of the Nixon 'silent majority' of the 1960's. Today, the culture war that broke out in the 60's is being revisited.

But demographics and values have moved forward.

Frankly, the Democrats really NEED a legitimate center right party (let's call that party the Republicans) to work with in order to effectively govern. The Teapublican partisans who dominate the Republican Party today are bad for the Republican Party (those demographics are going to increasingly undermine its voice). (I'd note as an aside that the only reason the Teapublicans didn't get pushed back big time in the House, like they did in the Senate was the control Republicans had in critical state houses during redistricting which happens every 10 years). But that Teapublican dominance is also bad for governance in general as the Democratic party doesn't have a moderating partner for bipartisan governance -- and they seriously need that.

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Message 1303649 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 18:32:54 UTC

actually the Conservative Catholic is a modern product. 50's and 60's Catholics were very liberal and supported Democratics ideals(house and feed the poor, take care of those that cannot take care of themselves). Modern Catholics are all about the abortion issue. They've seem to have forgotten own to look after those that are already alive and worry about those that aren't, yet. Noble as that is it still is a deep change in philosophy for the Catholics
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Message 1303681 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 19:27:38 UTC - in response to Message 1303649.

Skill, to a large degree, the developing schism within the Catholic church is similar to the schism with the Republican party.

A large proportion (probably a solid majority here) of Catholics are NOT supportive of the birth control diktat of the church. Also a fair proportion don't support the Churches absolute position on abortion. Further, on issues regarding women's role within the church, celebacy of priests, protection of predators within the church, and a number of other issues, the Church is doing itself more harm than help. These plus a retreat from social justice positions have meant that large numbers of Catholics have left the church -- either to become non-observers, or to join in increasing numbers some evangelical church.

The Republican party is faced with somewhat similar dilemmas - the antipathy toward the poor, toward immigrants, toward gays is attracting far right advocates who previously might have been outside of the party, while losing moderates, gays (who might well support rational fiscal conservatism), hispanics and the young.

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Message 1303683 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 19:37:53 UTC - in response to Message 1303681.

Skill, to a large degree, the developing schism within the Catholic church is similar to the schism with the Republican party.

A large proportion (probably a solid majority here) of Catholics are NOT supportive of the birth control diktat of the church. Also a fair proportion don't support the Churches absolute position on abortion. Further, on issues regarding women's role within the church, celebacy of priests, protection of predators within the church, and a number of other issues, the Church is doing itself more harm than help. These plus a retreat from social justice positions have meant that large numbers of Catholics have left the church -- either to become non-observers, or to join in increasing numbers some evangelical church.

The Republican party is faced with somewhat similar dilemmas - the antipathy toward the poor, toward immigrants, toward gays is attracting far right advocates who previously might have been outside of the party, while losing moderates, gays (who might well support rational fiscal conservatism), hispanics and the young.

Agreed. If you ever go to Mass you'll note that most families have 2 or fewer children and the parents seem quite happy with that number. Now one can assume that the parents stopped having sex after the children were born or reality where the parents are being responsible to themselves and the rest of the world by not popping out 12+ kids that they cannot afford or support.

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Message 1303684 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 19:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 1303683.

Now one can assume that the parents stopped having sex after the children were born or reality where the parents are being responsible to themselves and the rest of the world by not popping out 12+ kids that they cannot afford or support.


Now that's already being picked up on here, with the government considering only paying child support for the 1st 2.

40 years well overdue, but whether or not it'll be implemented is another matter.
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Message 1303697 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 20:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 1303684.

Check out the birth rate in Italy -- a nominally Catholic country.

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Message 1303714 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 20:37:00 UTC - in response to Message 1303681.
Last modified: 8 Nov 2012, 20:39:06 UTC

The Republican party is faced with somewhat similar dilemmas - the antipathy toward the poor, toward immigrants, toward gays is attracting far right advocates who previously might have been outside of the party, while losing moderates, gays (who might well support rational fiscal conservatism), Hispanics and the young.


These are the very points the NewsNight analysis came up with, and the ageing religious white majority came up with. This drives the policy agenda against all the groups you mentioned. You can also add - African blacks, Latinos, women (50% of the population), etc.

Having policies which in part alienates these large minority groups means there are not enough aged white males being minted to give the votes to counter balance at elections, etc. Which is why I suggested they were stuck in a time warp, probably better chosen from the post war area.
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Message 1303716 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 20:52:04 UTC

Now that's already being picked up on here, with the government considering only paying child support for the 1st 2. 40 years well overdue, but whether or not it'll be implemented is another matter.

Oh heck, I can't keep up with this, I'm going to have to take to my bed with a fit of the vapours.

Yet another post where I agree with Sirius.

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Message 1303739 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 22:22:55 UTC

Time warp? I think all of you are completely missing the mark!

The tea idiots are throwbacks to the 4th century!! Absolutely no different that any other fundamentalist religion.

For many years they were taken in by the democrat party. Then sometime around the 60's the democrats threw them out. It took until the 80's before the idiots settled into the Republican party. Now that they seem to have gone off and formed the Tea idiots perhaps the Republicans can finish throwing them out and they can become a totally marginalized non issue.


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Message 1303764 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 23:19:59 UTC - in response to Message 1303739.

Time warp? I think all of you are completely missing the mark!

The tea idiots are throwbacks to the 4th century!! Absolutely no different that any other fundamentalist religion.

For many years they were taken in by the democrat party. Then sometime around the 60's the democrats threw them out. It took until the 80's before the idiots settled into the Republican party. Now that they seem to have gone off and formed the Tea idiots perhaps the Republicans can finish throwing them out and they can become a totally marginalized non issue.


I'll agree with that. It's almost a cult-like situation.
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Message 1303768 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 23:27:46 UTC - in response to Message 1303739.

Time warp? I think all of you are completely missing the mark!

The tea idiots are throwbacks to the 4th century!! Absolutely no different that any other fundamentalist religion.

For many years they were taken in by the democrat party. Then sometime around the 60's the democrats threw them out. It took until the 80's before the idiots settled into the Republican party. Now that they seem to have gone off and formed the Tea idiots perhaps the Republicans can finish throwing them out and they can become a totally marginalized non issue.



Agreed, the Republican Party need a modern version of LBJ (or Lincoln if you want to go further back for leaders that transformed their party's base). W may have been able to do it, since then I don't think any of the serious contenders have thought of trying.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1303801 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 2:25:19 UTC - in response to Message 1303681.
Last modified: 9 Nov 2012, 2:31:16 UTC

Skill, to a large degree, the developing schism within the Catholic church is similar to the schism with the Republican party.

A large proportion (probably a solid majority here) of Catholics are NOT supportive of the birth control diktat of the church. Also a fair proportion don't support the Churches absolute position on abortion. Further, on issues regarding women's role within the church, celebacy of priests, protection of predators within the church, and a number of other issues, the Church is doing itself more harm than help. These plus a retreat from social justice positions have meant that large numbers of Catholics have left the church -- either to become non-observers, or to join in increasing numbers some evangelical church.

The Republican party is faced with somewhat similar dilemmas - the antipathy toward the poor, toward immigrants, toward gays is attracting far right advocates who previously might have been outside of the party, while losing moderates, gays (who might well support rational fiscal conservatism), hispanics and the young.

[OT]On the subject of Catholics and birth control, the women of the church (even nuns) have strayed from the Vatican's stance... Here's one example. http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/157356092/bishop-explains-vaticans-criticism-of-u-s-nuns[/OT]
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Message 1303816 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 3:01:32 UTC

Republicans have lost the culture war.

[...]

Voters in Maryland, Maine, and Washington voted yes on ballot initiatives legalizing gay marriage. In Minnesota, a ballot initiative to amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage went down in defeat.

Voters also rejected the constant right-wing demagoguery on reproductive rights. They defeated Amendment 6 in Florida, which would have seriously restricted funding of abortion by taking away insurance coverage of abortion for many state employees.


Social conservatives it seems your days on the US political stage are numbered. Your continuing strangle hold on the Republican Party platform all but guarantee further Democratic Party victories. Your party will either handle this truth and dump you, or follow the Whigs into the history books.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1303823 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 3:25:15 UTC
Last modified: 9 Nov 2012, 3:26:32 UTC

Looks like some people tried to oppose the truth deniers.

ATHENS, Ga. — Charles Darwin earned almost 4,000 write-in votes against a Georgia congressman who denounced evolution and other scientific theories as “lies straight from the pit of hell.”

The symbolic votes in Athens-Clarke County were a small percentage of more than 209,000 votes won by Republican Rep. Paul Broun in his unopposed re-election Tuesday.


Charles Darwin gets nearly 4,000 write-in votes in Athens against Rep. Broun

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Message 1303841 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 4:19:54 UTC

Can I just jump in here with this real quick?

Thanks.
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Message 1303861 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 5:01:50 UTC

Is the US now becoming an offshore location for manufacturing companies.

Foxconn 'considers plan to open factories in US'

Taiwan company's reportedly evaluating LA and Detroit as site for TV assembly plants owing to rising labour costs at home

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Message 1303869 - Posted: 9 Nov 2012, 5:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 1303861.

Is the US now becoming an offshore location for manufacturing companies.

Foxconn 'considers plan to open factories in US'

Taiwan company's reportedly evaluating LA and Detroit as site for TV assembly plants owing to rising labour costs at home

Hey, if things are balancing out that quick in the global economy, I'm ok with it.
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