so you mean we an actually get insurance that actually covers something, and not be canceled just because we are inconvenient to the profit margin?

Wow.. amazing. Insurance companies actually insuring again!!

Oh, no one says they have to offer Obama care policies. If it looks like it would hurt the bottom line, they won't be offered. And then everyone will have to pay the Obama Care tax.

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I don't get the opposition to a single payer system. Do people really think you'll pay more in taxes than you do out of pocket for healthcare?


I would think the only people that should be worried about a single-payer system, would be the rare few who have private insurance covered in full at no cost to them. Who doesn't have co-pays? Who doesn't pay 25-50% of the weekly premium for private care though your employer?

Currently there are plenty of people who spend 1/4 to 1/2 of their income, just for insurance for their families. This is NOT ok. Obamacare in itself will not change this, but maybe the next steps will.

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#resist

Gary, this should be a very large boon for the insurance industry.

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And what about employers who currently provide (or subsidize) coverage but now decide its cheaper to drop coverage and pay the penalty? Good for the employer, bad for the employee.

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me@rescam.org

And what about employers who currently provide (or subsidize) coverage but now decide its cheaper to drop coverage and pay the penalty? Good for the employer, bad for the employee.

OR, good for the employee! If the cost of care will be related to income... Cause right now it sure as h*** ain't.

Personally, many people I know, and myself included, will be better off with Obamacare, vs our private insurers. I doubt we'll be expected to pay 33% or more of our income for health insurance under Obamacare vs. company supplied insurances where many of us currently DO.

(A little side note, if our employers free up money by dropping insurance coverage, perhaps some/many of us would have an easier time arguing for raises? Just a thought.)

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#resist

Misfit, employer supplied health care is income to the employee that is not taxed. Very unfair to the tax payers who do not have that benefit.

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Personally, many people I know, and myself included, will be better off with Obamacare, vs our private insurers.

Ex, you did understand that Obamacare is private insurance didn't you?

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(A little side note, if our employers free up money by dropping insurance coverage, perhaps some/many of us would have an easier time arguing for raises? Just a thought.)

Doubt it. It comes down to profit margin and stock dividends. Companies and investors want the most of both.

Misfit, employer supplied health care is income to the employee that is not taxed. Very unfair to the tax payers who do not have that benefit.

I will have to fully disagree. I pay a ****load for my medical premiums. Fairness has nothing to do with my job compared to someone elses job as neither controls the other. That's like saying to a professional athlete it's not fair you make tons of money and I don't, at the cost of my ticket prices. You can't fault an employee for accepting something that is offered.

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me@rescam.org

Personally, many people I know, and myself included, will be better off with Obamacare, vs our private insurers.

Ex, you did understand that Obamacare is private insurance didn't you?

Yes.

But IF my employer does not/did not offer insurance, I would be eligible for vouchered (income-proportionate) private insurance. NOT the same thing as my overpriced 1/3rd of my gross pay family plan.

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#resist

Right -- makes me a Democrat these days -- still registered as a Republican though -- in Arizona that means I get to vote against the right wing winner twice -- once in the primary and then in the general election.

You are as rare as an Ivory billed woodpecker. A moderate republican that isn't bullied into believing its best to toss out the baby with the bath water

Right -- makes me a Democrat these days -- still registered as a Republican though -- in Arizona that means I get to vote against the right wing winner twice -- once in the primary and then in the general election.

You are as rare as an Ivory billed woodpecker. A moderate republican that isn't bullied into believing its best to toss out the baby with the bath water

Barry for president!
Then we could all get along. Us on the left would be happy, and those on the right would have a Republican with good ideas.

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Dave, the reaction to single payer is that there are folks who feel that the health care industry and the health care insurance industry were just absolutely fine as they collaborated to have health care increase to 18% of GDP while providing less effective care than the developed world where health care costs are less than 12% of GDP - even with an older population.

Actually, that was part of the deal that got insurance company support -- in exchange for the 'no more than 20% going to non-health care costs' provisions, they got the mandate instead of single payer. The mandate provides a 'profit rich' population for insurance companies.

Gary, this should be a very large boon for the insurance industry.

Mark, a very good point. Of course if there were unions..... But we shan't go there <smile>.

Actually, ideally what would happen is that employers would increase salaries in exchange for employees going to private (or exchanges) insurance.

Of course the alternative is basically implied in the Ryan budget -- in order to make the Ryan tax cuts work, you need to attack deductions -- at the corporate level that would be to define out health insurance as an allowable expense -- or alternatively define company provided health insurance as income. The ONLY way the Ryan tax cuts would work (he states they should be revenue neutral) would be to kill off major deductions, not trim around the edges. Health insurance is one of those major deductions.

And what about employers who currently provide (or subsidize) coverage but now decide its cheaper to drop coverage and pay the penalty? Good for the employer, bad for the employee.

Misfit, employer offered health plans originated during WW2 as a way to circumvent wage freezes. They were then and still are a form of income and it is tax exempt. The plan my last employer had was worth about $700 per month to me. That was tax exempt income IMO. In my working days that meant about $200 a month less in federal taxes paid than if I just got the $700 and enrolled in the plan on my own.
The fairness aspect is not about what a person earns but the fact that some classes of wage earners are making tax exempt income. What are "fair" tax rates is another discussion.

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Indeed it is, that was the deal cut to get the bill passed originally -- as opposed to single payer (ie extend Medicare to lower age groups).

Personally, many people I know, and myself included, will be better off with Obamacare, vs our private insurers.

Ex, you did understand that Obamacare is private insurance didn't you?

Single payer health care!

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand? Enlighten me?

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#resist

Single payer health care!

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand? Enlighten me?

This is where single payer will lead! Yeah! This is what everybody wants, isn't it?

Wow, that's really a stretch. Even for you...

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#resist