On a much lighter note, the babe photo in Dullnando's signature proves that if there is a God, he's One of the Guys :-)

No. No. No.

Being a New Poster Here, you can Be Forgiven My Son.

Around Here, They Don't Believe in GOD, and They Never, Never, Never mention DullNanDO, except with Derision.

Get with The Program Matey. You are Doing Good Otherwise.

ControlAltDeleteDullNanDO

p.s. Notice The Hot Babe has a book. Who reads books anymore?

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

guido.man said "Evidence for God from Science: No evidence.

Christian Apologetics History of the Bible: Christians trying to convince themselves that "the Bible is the word of God".

How The Bible Came To Us: Many writers, many editors, many publishers."

Don't forget censors and bored scribes that invent things.

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I has a MiniCity :)
http://en-ki-du.myminicity.com

Some of the scribes were actually illiterate, and did their best to copy what they saw. Meanings were changed accidently as well as on purpose.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Some of the scribes were actually illiterate, and did their best to copy what they saw. Meanings were changed accidently as well as on purpose.

Steve

I would have assumed, Steve; that to be a scribe meant you had a reasonably high
level of education...especially going back to those days.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Not really. Some were apointed because they were the first person, the person in charge saw, or because they were in good with the higher ups. There is one example of a scribe copying some text 10 times in a row. The first three were one way, and the next 7 were something different, but all the same, showing the scribe made a mistake, and kept copying the mistake.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I guess there is no relationship between Noah's ark and Moses being delivered the 10 commandments on two pieces or plates of stone (or the similar) on top of Mt. Sinai.

If we should believe history (I presume the Old Testament), Noah's ark was meant to salvage both humans as well as animals. Possibly plants and trees were included aboard the ark as well.

How did they know in advance and in which way was the ark presumably built, meaning with this - what were their capabilities for doing this?

Sometimes we forget that some stories last a long time, some times they last a short time and in between there may often be hundreds of years when nothing of significance is happening at all.

If Noah's ark actually contained two of every animal, plant, bacteria, fungus, it would have been hundreds of miles long. What would all those animals eat? There would have been a huge problem with waste, and we would all be inbred, susceptible to deformities and diseases.

As for Moses receiving the 10 commandments, for all I know he may have carved them himself, of found them laying there where someone else left them. The commandments themselves were more appropriate at the time they were written. I mean none of them say "Thou shall not molest thy neighbors children."

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Scribes were more or less artists, but I do beg to differ about the part that they were for the most part uneducated. Previous to the innovation of printing presses, they had to be rather bright.

What they did in antiquity involved copying books (ie: the impossibly beautiful artwork in some old old olllld bibles), including other Sacred Texts, Secretarial and Administerial jobs like dictation and the keeping of judicial, historical and business records. That implies the necessity to be smarter than the average bear, ya? :)

imo, The scribes who were just there because they were the only ones worked on things that weren't too beastly important. ^^

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I has a MiniCity :)
http://en-ki-du.myminicity.com

Only some were illiterate. I never meant most, just some. You are right. Many were artists, and quite bright. With trades of today, some workers are exceptional at what they do, and others, not so much....

It was just one source of error in the versions of the Bible.

My source is:

http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060738170

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Stev:

I you could be able to put up three different subjects (among several others) and in a way rank these subjects in order of significance (perhaps what suits you best), in which order would you put up the relevance or significance of the following subjects?

a) The Bible and its history

b) Evolution of the Universe (including the evolvement of species here on Earth)

c) Nature's brutality (including wars and conflicts)

d) The subject of math, physics, etc.

By the way, labels a) through c) is the "order" which I choose to put it up here only.

Do we not see a God in all these main points? Do we not extract data from all thought or known chaos in order to try making up a meaning or explanation from the same chaos?

Is not then the result coming out of what is supposed to be chaos then again resulting in order coming out of this, and if not so, is is possibly the opposite way around?

Can order better be explained by means of the presence of a God rather by means of chaos? Both conditions seems to be co-existing side by side all the time.

I guess both order and chaos again relate to the subject of math.

The commandments themselves were more appropriate at the time they were written. I mean none of them say "Thou shall not molest thy neighbors children."

Uh, shouldn't that be don't molest the congregation's children? But I digress into the issue of organized religion and why it is the tool of the devil, if the devil exists.

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As for Moses receiving the 10 commandments, for all I know he may have carved them himself, of found them laying there where someone else left them. The commandments themselves were more appropriate at the time they were written. I mean none of them say "Thou shall not molest thy neighbors children."

I've always preferred George Carlin's Two Commandments. :-D

[Edit] Forgot to add that the link to Youtube has adult language (typical Carlin), so if you're easily offended, please don't click.

Stev:

I you could be able to put up three different subjects (among several others) and in a way rank these subjects in order of significance (perhaps what suits you best), in which order would you put up the relevance or significance of the following subjects (a through c is the order I put it up here only).

a) The Bible and its history

b) Evolution of the Universe (including the evolvement of species here on Earth)

c) Nature's brutality (including wars and conflicts)

Do we not see a God in all these main points? Do we not extract data from all thought or known chaos in order to try making up a meaning or explanation from the same chaos?

Is not then the result coming out of or following this order out of chaos?

Can order better be explained by means of the presence of a God rather by means of chaos. Both conditions seems to co-exist side by side all the time.

The evolution of the universe and life here and possibly other places is a part of the brutality you speak of. The universe got here as a result of billions and billions of explosions. The earth was formed by asteroids smashing into each other, and coalescing for billions of years. The atmosphere was methane at one time, until bacteria ate the methane, and gave off oxygen. It formed, and later developed life because the conditions were correct. There is no need for any God to have anything to do with any of it.

Years ago scientists took a glass container, and filled it with the gases that were present on the early earth, and sparked it with electricity for some period of time. What began to build up on the sides of the glass were organic molecules. The same ones that could be combined into DNA.

Animals have always been brutal. Survival of the fittest worked for hundreds of millions of years. If one animal killed another's babies, then the killers babies would survive, or if one animal stole food from another, then the one with the food eats. People are just a different species of animal. They harm others for profit, fun, and ignorance among other reasons.

The order you speak of is physics. I don't see any reason for a God to exist at all. Religion is a human invention to provide an explanation for events, or to act as a stick to lean on. It helps many people, but that help is coming from within them, and not external.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Stev:

Please admit this: Both we as well as nature strive for perfectionism as well as symmetry. Still physics is showing us that nature's rules are thawed or infallible from the start already.

If neither symmetry nor the opposite is of no value when it comes to the understanding of certain things, is it then that easy not to be believing in a God?

Should we better seek out and be looking for such a God, or should we rather not be doing such a thing?

No, humans strive for control, perfectionism and symmetry.

Nature is rather chaotic, imperfectly perfect so as to form a sort of symmetry.

I can't admit it because I don't believe it. There is no need for any God to exist anywhere in the universe, other than in the minds of people.

In my viewpoint, the universe and people behave exactly as one would expect with no God at all.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

At both of you, Gentlemen, you may possibly have read one of my other posts here where I make a reference to Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

I mention in this post that the position as well as some other characteristics regarding the properties of a particle can not be determined with exact precision because the way in which this is being measured is only affecting the particle itself.

Another example is Mercury's orbit around the Sun. When its position was measured based on exact calculations known about its orbit around the Sun, the location of the planet in the sky deviated from the computed position with about 43" (or 43 arc seconds).

This could not be explained by means of Newtonian mathematics. Only when Albert Einstein formulated his laws of relativity, this discrepancy could be explained in full detail.

This means that also randomness as well as chaos in the end can be be correctly explained mathematically.

Just because I don't understand something fully, doesn't mean it points to some supernatural entity causing it. Actually I have never seen anything that would suggest that something supernatural is responsible for anything.

Even an experiment that gives a strange result can be repeated again and again, each time varying the conditions slightly. It is still testable. Once you bring a supernatural diety into things, nothing is testable, and nothing makes sense.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

On a much lighter note, the babe photo in Dullnando's signature proves that if there is a God, he's One of the Guys :-)

No. No. No.

Being a New Poster Here, you can Be Forgiven My Son.

Around Here, They Don't Believe in GOD, and They Never, Never, Never mention DullNanDO, except with Derision.

Get with The Program Matey. You are Doing Good Otherwise.

ControlAltDeleteDullNanDO

p.s. Notice The Hot Babe has a book. Who reads books anymore?

Dull, ya think the lack of belief in god may be due to the fact that most people here are interested in science?

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This means that also randomness as well as chaos in the end can be be correctly explained mathematically.

That we are able to find a mathematical certainty to nature, that doesn't imply it was done by Design. Again, mathematics is simply abstract, and mathematics can be our tool to make sense of the chaos, but that certainly doesn't imply Design either.