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An argument for the existence of God: First formulation…
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19158 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
I.D. at one stage you claimed that the United States is founded on Christianity, so how many of these were Christians. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Paine and Ulysses S. Grant? And how many of the first 20 Presidents can, without question, be classified as Christians? |
SciManStev Send message Joined: 20 Jun 99 Posts: 6653 Credit: 121,090,076 RAC: 0 |
I.D. at one stage you claimed that the United States is founded on Christianity, so how many of these were Christians. I was waiting for that! I'm very glad you brought it up, as that is another misconception that the US was founded as a Christian nation. Excellent! Steve Warning, addicted to SETI crunching! Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group. GPUUG Website |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24884 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Sirius B, if we don't use labels, it makes it very difficult to comment. WHY? Try saying something about how people act without using labels. While taking a shortcut via the embankment of the River Nene this morning, I spotted a group of fishermen enjoying themselves, laughing, smiling & sharing their foodstuffs. It made for a great tranquil scene. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Steve, you point out the middle ground of misconceptions. There is the conservative side of miss-conceptions, and the liberal side of ms-conceptions as well no doubt <smile> I suppose a miss-conception in this thread regards the definition of 'statesman'...
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Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24884 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Alot of Bible is Allegory. Read my post again. Nowhere did I mention modern times or countries - I referred to the Old & New Testaments & compared the "prophets" to modern day politicians. Oh & your website is 100% factful & proves that god exists? Really? You really should have become a catholic priest. With what you've been posting here so far, I guarantee, you would've have become pope by now. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24884 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Thank you |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Sirius B, if we don't use labels, it makes it very difficult to comment. WHY? Try saying something about how people act without using labels. While taking a shortcut via the embankment of the River Nene this morning, I spotted a group of fishermen enjoying themselves, laughing, smiling & sharing their foodstuffs. It made for a great tranquil scene. Isn't the term "fisherman" a label too? Aren't labels nothing more than names of categories for Stuff and Things? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24884 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
LOL...I was hoping that Guy came back on this one. Yes it is. However, I mentioned the labels on my post in regards to the topic. In general, no one cannot speak with a "label" creeping into the conversation. Back to the topic - Why the religious labels, they're not really needed as they really serve no purpose. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
What's all this stuff against lapels -- folks here don't like sport jackets? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24884 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Abells tolling....it tolls for ID. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Guy, in his classic 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' Gibbons posited that one cause of the fall was the adoption of Christianity.... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
I.D. at one stage you claimed that the United States is founded on Christianity, so how many of these were Christians. Ummm, you claim I don't know history and you lump Abe Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant as founders? Riiiiiiiight. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
bobby, there's no scientific proof (according to the rules scientists like Steven Hawking follow) any god exists. Quit trying to introduce the bait and switch tactic with me. You were the one that said "This alone, I believe, makes the Christian God stronger than Allah", bait, I followed you up on that comment and your reply is switch. What am I missing? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
I.D. at one stage you claimed that the United States is founded on Christianity, so how many of these were Christians. Another failure of comprehension? Where (other than in your reply) is there a claim that any of those listed were Founding Fathers? It could be argued that the U.S. was founded anew by the Civil War (thus Lincoln and Grant were founders of a renewed U.S.). I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
Poster with no name and no afterlife quit putting words in my mouth. Just how are you imagining this stuff? Have you recently turned on, tuned in, and dropped out? So you have a problem with proselytizing priests and ministers as much as you have a problem with proselytizing Atheists? I'm glad to hear I was wrong about you and your double standards. Again, without the majority of a nation believing in God, that nation is doomed. Oh I see... so because a list doesn't exist for nations that have prospered with a removal of God, that automatically proves that a nation will fail without one. I'll tell you what, since you're using puerile logic, I will respond in kind: you provide me with proof that a nation will fail without a God (since I asked second and 2 is more than 1), and I'll give you a list of nations that have prospered due to the removal of God. Such intellectualism simply astounds me! I'm glad this thread is moving right along. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
How do you know a Christian man from a man who does not believe in a God? By his words and deeds. All ethics are founded in Gods Law. Chris S has already covered that. Now where would that leave U.S. Grant one might say? Depends on what you think is a Just War. I do think the Civil War was a Just War. I admire the English for ending slavery of the Black Man without war. I think of war as the last straw. And everytime war breaks out and our President sends our troops to war; Impeachment trials should be held till that President can prove Just War Cause. That is what a states man is, he is the protector of the Rule of Law and the mouthpiece of the voters. I ask that the Constitution be restored, slavery was the reason for our Constitution. The founders knew this, the ones with a conscience got 3/5ths clause put into the Constitution. Here is where everyone yells about Jefferson and Washington. Most people who were slaves back then were white people, Indentured 'White Slaves' in the Colonies. They outnumbered the Black Slaves. But, nevertheless both Washington and Jefferson owned blackslaves. By the way, both men set them slaves free at their deaths. The Clause of 3/5ths held off importation of slaves till the end of Jeffersons term as President. Now we here in this Country once again find slavery. And the very elected on both sides of that one bird in congress are the ones who have enslaved us. They have ignored us in favor of reelection monies from lobbiest. Gotta have that TV money. This is Fascist in nature. This really got a foothold during the Civil War with the war machine that won the war, this lobbiest thing. Really took hold into true Fascisism in WWII, with the real partnership of the war machine and politics. Not that WWII can't be correctly called a Just War, it can, but partnership did not end with the war. Nor did the lobbiest on K-Street. We no longer make the laws in this country. The law is made either by the President, a touch of Rome. Or the law is written by a 3rd party given to congress and passed by them after it is given to them like Health Care. As I said, we no longer make laws, they are imposed. If the above is true I ask what is slavery? We are now slaves to debt. And China that banker. I ask what is slavery and where is my rule of law? How we have came to slavery from free people is the removal of good and sound ethics that came from good and sound morals that are a Gift from God. |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
How do you know a Christian man from a man who does not believe in a God? Given that I do not believe in God, and given that you don't know me personally, are you really willing to level against me that I have no ethics? |
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