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BarryAZ
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Message 1224245 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 4:59:33 UTC - in response to Message 1224227.

Great, a Bladerunner quote -- good fit under this topic.


Uhh.......
I've seen things.......

I have.

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Message 1224329 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 10:56:43 UTC
Last modified: 28 Apr 2012, 11:13:58 UTC

If you haven't read Supernature by Lyall Watson get hold of a copy and do so, fascinating!

He finds that Fibonacci numbers are present throughout nature e.g. the Golden Spiral which approximates to shells dating from pre-historic ammonites to snails today. The series of numbers even approximates to the spacing of leaves on a plant stem, and many other things in nature.

What about the Golden Ratio?



Why do we all find that ratio so pleasing? Artists use it for their paintings, marketing people size their detergent packets in that way etc. It is uesed in everyday design for example in the shapes of postcards, playing cards, posters, etc. In 2010, the journal Science reported that the golden ratio is present at the atomic scale in the magnetic resonance of spins in cobalt niobate crystals.

The golden ratio and related numbers are used in the financial markets. It is used in trading algorithms, applications and strategies. Some typical forms include: the Fibonacci fan, the Fibonacci arc, Fibonacci retracement and the Fibonacci time extension.


Intelligent design ????

But ooops, the International paper sizes are different with an aspect ratio of 1:root 2 or 1:1.4142 I guess it is easier to fold paper in half than nature ....

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Message 1224468 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 17:17:35 UTC

The Fibonacci numbers series has been used for over 50 years by the followers
of Elliott wave theory. This theory being used to predict major and minor
moves in stock markets using the Fibonacci series to count wave movements.
Here the Golden ratio is also used to mark expected change in market direction.

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Message 1224487 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 18:00:13 UTC
Last modified: 28 Apr 2012, 18:01:14 UTC

Are we implying that because the Fibonacci patterns exist, that means there is a designer?

To me the puzzle of the phenomena simply implies there are more mysteries of the universe to be unlocked.

Science- specifically physics, is working everyday to further our understanding of what's going on beneath it all.

Simply stating there is a designer and that that's the reason for these patterns in nature, is akin to saying evolution follows patterns because of design. There are better explanations.
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Message 1224498 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 18:17:38 UTC



:0)

The above posts do tell me alot. I do miss Fred.

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Message 1224499 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 18:18:56 UTC - in response to Message 1224227.

Uhh.......
I've seen things.......

I have.


Through glasses?

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Message 1224501 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 18:23:59 UTC - in response to Message 1224468.

The Fibonacci numbers series has been used for over 50 years by the followers
of Elliott wave theory. This theory being used to predict major and minor
moves in stock markets using the Fibonacci series to count wave movements.
Here the Golden ratio is also used to mark expected change in market direction.


Then everyone must have bailed before the last stock market crash and no one lost money.

The gulf between used and used successfully should always be examined before such statements are made.

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Message 1224529 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 19:12:03 UTC

Spirograph!

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Message 1224536 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 19:19:11 UTC - in response to Message 1224529.

Spirograph!

Indeed! Did you note the circle with the pin in it? Fibonacci numbers? The Golden Spiral?

[smile] perhaps?

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Message 1224579 - Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 21:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 1224498.

Going nowhere fast.
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Message 1224666 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 1:01:33 UTC

Were numbers discovered or invented?

If numbers were invented patterns were invented. They are merely an artifact of the invention.

Nature is better explained by repetitive rules than numbers, see Wolfram's book. That some number patterns sort of match some rules is just an artifact.

But if numbers were discovered then we would expect them to behave independently of other things and have no particular relationship to anything else save in some grand unification theory. We would expect to be able to isolate "numberness" from things as protons can be isolated.

Were the gods invented or discovered?

If the gods were invented we would expect them to match their nature. The Roman gods were arbitrary, capricious and fickle. The Christian god is good and kind but comes with tedious and tendentious explanations as to why it only appears to be arbitrary, capricious and fickle when it really is not. Jews have an immature, jealous, petty, vindictive god who can be outmaneuvered and out-thought by a clever human as in Abraham negotiating over Sodom. As with the Romans its actions are not in need of explanation to anyone familiar with small children.

But if the gods were discovered then we would not expect them to have any particular relationship to our reality any more than we could expect to predict the behavior of any other alien species.

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Message 1224806 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 7:46:03 UTC - in response to Message 1224501.

The Fibonacci numbers series has been used for over 50 years by the followers
of Elliott wave theory. This theory being used to predict major and minor
moves in stock markets using the Fibonacci series to count wave movements.
Here the Golden ratio is also used to mark expected change in market direction.


Then everyone must have bailed before the last stock market crash and no one lost money.

The gulf between used and used successfully should always be examined before such statements are made.

As I stated Mat, by the followers. I suggest you read a little about this first
then you will understand that using Elliott wave theory is more an art than a
proven science. The above posted by me was an example of where Fibonacci
summation series is being used, and at no time did I state that it was being
used successfully. It was not a statement claiming that Elliott
wave is at all successful at predicting accurately movements in the stock
market.


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Message 1224914 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 15:05:06 UTC - in response to Message 1224806.

BTW you couldn't make those nice lines with the spirograph set that way.
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Message 1224920 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 15:29:20 UTC

Yes there is structure in Nature and in Mathematics. Send me a private message and I will send you a paper on the subject which starts with a good discussion of Fibonacci (Leonardo of Pizza).

The ratios and the spirals turn out the way things have to be when growth occurs.

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Message 1224970 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 17:49:48 UTC - in response to Message 1224806.

The Fibonacci numbers series has been used for over 50 years by the followers
of Elliott wave theory. This theory being used to predict major and minor
moves in stock markets using the Fibonacci series to count wave movements.
Here the Golden ratio is also used to mark expected change in market direction.


Then everyone must have bailed before the last stock market crash and no one lost money.

The gulf between used and used successfully should always be examined before such statements are made.

As I stated Mat, by the followers. I suggest you read a little about this first
then you will understand that using Elliott wave theory is more an art than a
proven science. The above posted by me was an example of where Fibonacci
summation series is being used, and at no time did I state that it was being
used successfully. It was not a statement claiming that Elliott
wave is at all successful at predicting accurately movements in the stock
market.


An art is no a science and thus cannot qualify as a theory. Making claims beyond the evidence or without evidence is a believer thing.

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Message 1224981 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 18:15:45 UTC - in response to Message 1224970.


An art is no a science and thus cannot qualify as a theory. Making claims beyond the evidence or without evidence is a believer thing.


What ever your feelings on it is, Mat, the fact is that Elliott Wave theory
works on "utilising" the Fibonacci summation series, the subject of this thread.


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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

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Message 1225021 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012, 19:31:18 UTC

Ah, to a point we agree. Thank you gentlemen.

And we went someplace fast. :)

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Message 1225238 - Posted: 30 Apr 2012, 5:47:16 UTC - in response to Message 1224981.


An art is no a science and thus cannot qualify as a theory. Making claims beyond the evidence or without evidence is a believer thing.


What ever your feelings on it is, Mat, the fact is that Elliott Wave theory
works on "utilising" the Fibonacci summation series, the subject of this thread.



And inapplicable in the context in which it was raised because it is an art and does nothing useful.

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Message 1225240 - Posted: 30 Apr 2012, 6:00:19 UTC
Last modified: 30 Apr 2012, 6:00:43 UTC

You--just don't really---understand do you?

Good night....

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