Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III


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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III

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Message 1225749 - Posted: 1 May 2012, 14:11:31 UTC - in response to Message 1225621.
Last modified: 1 May 2012, 14:12:59 UTC

Matt-G is back and by his arguments: "Let the World be Damned".

Oh, and so CO2 and fossil fuels don't exist and pollution is good for us and the planet?


I'm pretty sure the rest of the world will disagree with Matt. (Which is where he likes it?)


No summer ice in the Arctic is very significant for all of us and the world.

All on our only one planet,
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Message 1225750 - Posted: 1 May 2012, 14:15:02 UTC

I'm pretty sure the rest of the world will disagree with Matt. (Which is where he likes it?)


I'd love to know Mat G's age. Is he a disenchanted teenager with spots, 50 going through a mid-life crisis, or a curmudgeonly 70 year old with gout and a grudge.

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Message 1225752 - Posted: 1 May 2012, 14:19:58 UTC - in response to Message 1225750.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the world will disagree with Matt. (Which is where he likes it?)


I'd love to know Mat G's age. Is he a disenchanted teenager with spots, 50 going through a mid-life crisis, or a curmudgeonly 70 year old with gout and a grudge.


I suspect past 90 and desperate to take us all out with him...


(Beware the multiple pun meaning in that...)

Cheers,
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Message 1225753 - Posted: 1 May 2012, 14:24:28 UTC

Hi Martin,

You may well be right ;-))

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Message 1225767 - Posted: 1 May 2012, 15:08:16 UTC
Last modified: 1 May 2012, 15:15:06 UTC

Here is a link to AtlanticConveyor
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Message 1228350 - Posted: 6 May 2012, 16:51:45 UTC

Diageo to end funding of Heartland Institute after climate change outburst

Diageo owns brands such as Guinness, Smirnoff, Johnnie Walker and Mo√ęt & Chandon.

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Message 1228503 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 0:01:48 UTC

Good. Nobody should give a group like that any money! In what freaking way does being concerned about OBVIOUS climate change make one anything like the unabomber!

This is why I could never be a republican... WOW
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Message 1228524 - Posted: 7 May 2012, 2:02:56 UTC - in response to Message 1228503.

Good. Nobody should give a group like that any money! In what freaking way does being concerned about OBVIOUS climate change make one anything like the unabomber!

This is why I could never be a republican... WOW

Why do you think heartland is a party plank of the republican party?

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Message 1232671 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 23:57:25 UTC - in response to Message 1228524.

Good. Nobody should give a group like that any money! In what freaking way does being concerned about OBVIOUS climate change make one anything like the unabomber!

This is why I could never be a republican... WOW

Why do you think heartland is a party plank of the republican party?

Walking the plank or not, "Heartland" is rumbling along for good or for ill:


Heartland Institute grows isolated as three more donors disassociate

Ultra-conservative climate sceptic thinktank continues to lose mainstream support, damaging its prospects of expansion


I just hope the politicians really are not gambling our planet...

It is the only planet we have,
Martin

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Message 1232746 - Posted: 16 May 2012, 2:02:08 UTC - in response to Message 1232671.
Last modified: 16 May 2012, 2:03:11 UTC

I just hope the politicians really are not gambling our planet...


What do you specifically propose that we do ??

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Message 1246614 - Posted: 15 Jun 2012, 22:19:57 UTC - in response to Message 1232746.

I just hope the politicians really are not gambling our planet...

And the gamble continues into ever greater recklessness:

Warming gas levels hit 'troubling milestone'

The world's air has reached what scientists call a troubling new milestone for carbon dioxide, the main global warming pollutant.

Monitoring stations across the Arctic this spring are measuring more than 400 parts per million of the heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere. The number isn't quite a surprise, because it's been rising at an accelerating pace. Years ago, it passed the 350 ppm mark that many scientists say is the highest safe level for carbon dioxide. It now stands globally at 395.

So far, only the Arctic has reached that 400 level, but the rest of the world will follow soon. ...

... the readings show how much the Earth's atmosphere and its climate are being affected by humans. Global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels hit a record high of 34.8 billion tons in 2011, up 3.2 percent...

... "History will not understand or forgive them."

But political dynamics in the United States mean there's no possibility of significant restrictions on man-made greenhouse gases no matter what the levels are in the air, said Jerry Taylor, a senior fellow of the libertarian Cato Institute. ...




What do you specifically propose that we do ??

One small start is to give your local politicians a wake-up call to let them know your vote goes to whoever stops the existing rot and and stops the fossil fuels corruption.

Note: BOTH our planet and the economy can be saved. The question looks ever more to be about overcoming the overwhelming lobbying from the fossil fuels suppliers/polluters...


This is our only planet,
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Message 1246668 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 0:43:50 UTC

Oh well, global warming has reared it's head again. Which countries government
agency is promoting this all over again? One suspects it's all been bought
back on the agender again because someone wants to use global warming as
a source for more green tax's. Extra Tax's required to prop up falling revenues
throughout the whole of the civilised world at the moment. Strange thing is that
fuel consumption has been going down due to the current depression, down 7% in the
UK, yet global CO2 emissions is still rising so where has this increase come from?
If this rise in Co2 it attributable to both China's and India's increased growth
hence increased emissions then extra green tax's applied by the western nations
will just prejudice any chance of growth in their own economies. Another oddity
is that global warming was supposed to give the southern parts of the UK
continental summers, so we were told back around 2001. Yet to date we have
experienced about two respectable summers this past 12 years, both prior to
2007. 2007 and onward's we have experienced wet summers of which three have
been very wet including this current one. Clearly in the science of global
warming we have yet to discover any scientist who can be classed, yet, as an expert
in this field. For those who fear that our planet is going to be destroyed
by man-made global warming then don't expect your government to support your
cause to protect the planet...they are doing next to nothing to stop it.
You have to ask your selves why? Is it that they genuinely don't believe in
it all?

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Message 1246866 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 9:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 1246668.

the government is being tied in knots by the high dollar interests in maintaining our fossil fuel addictions, rather than moving forward.. where it might not be their pockets that make some money.

So the lobbyists and the teapublican sabotage do their work to sidetrack, PR wars, and general poo pooing by the uninformed.

Global warming has not gone away, it was briefly shouted down and distracted from for a bit.

It does not come and go at your convenience.. people simply ignore it because they do not like it.


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Message 1246872 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 9:24:18 UTC
Last modified: 16 Jun 2012, 9:39:41 UTC

So I say again : What would you specifically propose that we do ?

While you are at it:

What will your proposal cost
How would you convince others that your climate science is correct and that human activity is the culprit.
Which countries would have to execute your plan
Where are the resources to carry out your proposal
How long will it take to carry out your plan
What will be the effect on the economies of those countries that do what you say.


Railing against politicians or worrying that the sky is falling will not stop CO-2 increases nor global warming if it is in fact occurring.



Let me get you started.

to replace 100 million cars in the United states with pure electrics would cost 4 trillion dollars.
To stop burning fossil fuels just for electricity production in the United Stats would require 1000 nuclear reactors in the US at a cost of another two trillion dollars and take 10-20 years. To replace oil and gas fired home and industrial heating systems in the US would cost at a minimum of another half trillion dollars.

My electric bill during the hottest and coldest months of the year would top $2000 per month if nuclear were to replace coal entirely. Almost as much as my fellow Tennessean, Al Gore, is paying now !!

My numbers are rough estimates but you cannot deny that the cost of a change of this magnitude is out of the question in today's or any other day's economy.



Another good rant by Daddio

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Message 1246899 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 12:24:54 UTC - in response to Message 1246872.

We have been through specifics many times in many threads. The cheapest energy source to add to the grid by FAR is wind. Stop paying the military to defend international fossil fuel reserves that when we get done with we still have no right to. Allow oil to ascend in price to 2-3 times todays prices and ta da,
all of the alternative energy sources become cost competitive. If we have government incentives to build the infrastructure, we have millions of additional jobs to the economy, and suddenly we could be once again become a leading nation economically as well as environmentally.

The cradle to grave philosophy we applied to asbestos could be extended to all the hydrocarbons. Put the cost back on the producers of these vial products until they are economically unviable, which they would be today if it was not for government subsidies, let alone the global damage that is being done by spillage.

Keep the windmills and solar panels going up. Tidal and wave energy can also be harnessed.

Once again, 100 miles square (think old nuke test sites in nevada as great candidates) of solar can produce more energy per year than the entire electric needs currently.

How do you start a 1,000 mile walk? Put one foot in front of the other. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.


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Message 1246900 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 12:30:16 UTC

Keep the windmills and solar panels going up. Tidal and wave energy can also be harnessed.

There is a backlash in the UK to onshore and offshore wind farms. The NIMBYS are in full cry.

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Message 1246902 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 12:39:33 UTC

Allow oil to ascend in price to 2-3 times todays prices and ta da,
all of the alternative energy sources become cost competitive


ROTFLMAO. You can't see the Economic Destruction in the above statement?

No need to Detail It for you. You will still repeat:

Allow oil to ascend in price to 2-3 times todays prices and ta da,
all of the alternative energy sources become cost competitive


Nutters. All of the DEM/Lib/Progressive/Socialist/Commie Greeners.

SlickAsOilDullNanDO
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Message 1246905 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 12:43:09 UTC - in response to Message 1246900.

Keep the windmills and solar panels going up. Tidal and wave energy can also be harnessed.

There is a backlash in the UK to onshore and offshore wind farms. The NIMBYS are in full cry.


There is a beauty to them as well. I have mental images of wind turbines that would be to me more beautiful, less obstructive, bird safer, and potentially more efficient. I am sure others have plans to put in place as well.

But some times, people just need to have a good cry. Buy them an ice cream when they are done. Are oil wells or nuke stacks really that much prettier?
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Message 1246938 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 14:30:19 UTC - in response to Message 1246905.
Last modified: 16 Jun 2012, 14:32:39 UTC

... But some times, people just need to have a good cry. Buy them an ice cream when they are done. Are oil wells or nuke stacks really that much prettier?

Not to mention all the many acres of waste and ground level pollution from the fossil fuels mess.

There is yet another application to open up new open-cast coal mining near here that will obliterate farmland and forest for many years, with a vague 'promise' of it will all be made nice again in a few decades time... Unsurprisingly, the NIMBYs are yet again rising up in revolt.


So how do we undo the unfair and corrupt subsidies to fossil fuels that allows them to pollute with impunity, to the vaster greater cost of all others around them?


As for that old "global warming" FUD that supposedly we should be enjoying nicer summers. That old story is so trite as to be an insult. Increasing the average energy in our atmosphere means that we get more extreme weather, and more often. The present gale blowing across the UK at the moment is yet another example of that. The USA for example, might not expect more storms blowing across. However, those storms will on average become more intense and so you can expect more of them to develop into very severe storms and hurricanes. This is demonstrably happening...


Perhaps people are scared of change. Especially so for those that are reaping all the short term profits for the present...

Still our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1246949 - Posted: 16 Jun 2012, 14:57:41 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 14:21:05 UTC

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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III

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