Hi,
I was involved in a accident yesterday. I was travelling down a three laned road in Liverpool UK, in the middle lane, I was coming up to some lights approx 0.1 miles away at little over 30mph, when I noted this I slowed to below 30mph, I came off the throttle and put my foot on the brake pedal to prepare / start to slow the car down, dropped from 5th to 4th. A car behind me also started to brake, but the another car behind him swerved to avoid hitting the car behind me, cross the clear lane, and mounted the Kerb and seriously hurt two pedestrians. Myself and the KA were all in the middle lane I didnt see where the Mercedes came from.

Whats the likely out come of this? I and the Police noted that the man driving the car that mounted the pavement had a external cage fitted around his lower left leg.

Im worried sick for the young man involved, and in case its deemed I have braked too early etc and caused this horrific incident.

The Ford car in the middle (the one the Mercedes tried to avoid) didn't stick around and drove off.

any advice taken.

I not going to go ringing around, the Police only took a witness statement and by the fact the driver in the mercedes ended up across one lane of traffic, over a foot (approx) foot wide path then 20ft up a grass bank, and about 50ft along it if not more, suggests to myself that he was at least speeding. I'm not normally effected by these things but this has shook me up a great deal, to the point my boss doesnt want me back in work for a coupld of days.

4. It is ALWAYS the person behind that has to ensure that they are a far enough distance away from the car in front, to be able to brake safely, whatever the situation.

==================================
ditto:
A driver is always responsible for the control of his vehicle at all times.
You may just be suffering from the stress of the incident, and that is why you are calling about the victims. (P.T.S.D. Post traumatic stress disorder.)
Call a lawyer! to protect yourself.

celttooth

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I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but in North America if the attending officers had ANY suspicion you shared the blame in any way, they would have issued you a citation of some sort on the spot, just to keep you in the process. No ticket, no problem.

As long as you were driving a safe and legal speed, even if you slammed on the brakes, the cars behind should have been at a distance and speed that would allow them to react normally, and stop safely. Clearly the car right behind you was able to do this. Based on your description, the Mercedes probably failed on all counts (speed, distance, attention to traffic). That driver probably has legal and moral problems, but not you.

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I see no problem for you here.
You were the one paying attention to what was going on in front of you, and reacted correctly by slowing down to keep a safe distance. The fact that those behind you were inattentive, driving too fast, or following too closely is certainly not your fault.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Here in New York State, If you rear end a vehicle, You get the ticket. plus whatever the cop decides to give you. ie speeding or following to close for conditions.

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[/quote]

Old James

[cynicism]Sue the Merc driver for the axiety he's causing you.[/cynicism]

If you were slightly above speed and had to brake a bit, then if the car behind you has to brake he must have been slightly too fast as well/ too close - not your fault at all. In any case if the Merc lost control trying to avoid a previously slightly too fast car he was either speeding, much too close or didn't pay attention at all.

In germany you could get a part fault if you had braked for no apparent reason (e.g. coming to a sudden standstill on an empty countryside road), but I don't think you have that in the UK and anyway it woudln't apply.

As the middle car failed to stop - are there any other witnesses?

I'd say since the Merc lost control, he is to blame, but I'm no lawyer looking for a way out.

If you drive with due care, you are not responsible if an idiot behind you causes an accident.

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Carola
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I'm multilingual - I can misunderstand people in several languages!

I agree with the statements made here. I'm also not sure how things are done across the pond, but I would imagine its similar to here. Do make sure to let your insurance company know, simply because of the fact you were a witness, you gave a statement, that driver could somehow some way pull you into the mess. Also the advise of an attorney is a good idea as well. I really don't see anything happening to you, but its always good to CYA (Cover your A**).

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As both a former lawyer and judge from across the pond, I have to throw my 2 cents worth. Well at $250 an hours its a little more than 2 cents, but here goes.

1. Not true that no contact means no liability. Based on the facts I don't think Bill has much to worry about, but there can be no contact fault.

2. Contacting insurance and giving a statement is very wise. Here in the US we attorneys are taught to file a claim against every possible person. Failure to do so can be mal-practice making the attorney liable. Whenever a client asks me if they can be sued for something I reply that they can be sued if someone does not like their neck tie. Winning is another matter. I have represented clients that I truly believed had no liability, yet the client (insurance company actually) will often agreed to pay some amount just to get it over with.

3. The car behind is not always at fault. In this case I would say yes, but I had one case where the car behind was already stopped and the car ahead somehow put it in reverse causing the accident. Lack of working tail lights can make the car ahead at "fault."

4. Leaving the location as the second car did is a felony in most if not all US states. Unless something prevented you from stopping. I successfully represented a young man charged with hit and run. It seems that his car suffered damage that made his throttle stick and brakes fail. He did stop about 5 blocks away after he had turned off the engine and coasted to a stop.

5. Contacting an attorney is not necessary so long as you have insurance. The insurance company will retain an attorney that they have under contract to defend you. After all if you lose they pay.

6. If you want to recover for emotional distress, see a doctor or psychologist. Sounds like you have real damages, loss of work, but recover is not allowed unless there is physical damage. You will need a medical person to state that you suffered physically if you want to make a claim. (exception to rule 5 if you want to make a claim then find a good personal injury lawyer. He will be able to lead you to the appropriate medical treatment and it will normally cost you nothing until the case settles.

Oh I could go on, but your free consultation is over.

PS this is based on California Law, the laws of your state, your country could and most likely are different. This is not a solicitation for employment or direct legal consultation. This information is provided to solicit open discussion and may not apply to your facts. If you have any questions consult a lawyer licensed within your jurisdiction. (I have to be careful. Don't want anyone saying that I am practicing law without a license.)

Sounds like you have no problems other than an over active conscience. Relax you didn't cause this.

Just a for instance,
If the Mercedes hit the Ford behind you and the Ford hit you then the Ford driver could potentially be responsible for damages to your car.

However, In certain instances where the Second car had given space but was shoved forcedly into the front car then the rear vehicle is held responsible for the entire incident. My dad was involved in an accident like this and was the second car. The third car was found to have be driving with excessive speed. My dads little truck got crunched on the front and back ends. But it didn't affect his insurance

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Dave I do not see that you have anything to worry about 1/10th mile and in the middle lane and as long as your brake lights were working you were giving enough notice that you were stopping the guy in the Merc well they will probibly throw the book at him.Do as your boss says and chill for a few days,and if you dont feel like driving for the next few days use the bus and let someone else drive.

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Old enough to know better(but)still young enough not to care

Dave

Based on your post, I would say you have nothing to worry about. The accident involves a car several back from you, and, I understand, you had no damage. It is also unlikely any liability would attach to you.

Follow Chris's suggestion and report the incident to your insurance company, but not as a claim for damage to your vehicle.

I am not a lawyer but the facts are plain, and the Merck driver was clearly speeding for the conditions and lost control of his car. It could be made worse for him as his leg brace may mean he should not have been driving, and, in an extreme position, his insurance may be invalidated because of it.

Nothing to do with you, but cover yourself for safety.

You know the UK is going the same way as the States with litigation. Personally my position with these accident ambulance chasers is they should follow the plaudit - the only good laywer is a dead laywer. All they are capable of is sucking the economic life from society and contribute nothing to that society.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

the only good laywer is a dead laywer. All they are capable of is sucking the economic life from society and contribute nothing to that society.

I really feel the love John.
I will leave it with something I was told by a teacher the first day of law school. He said there's no such thing as "Shyster Lawyers". Only "Shyster People", some of which are lawyers.

Time to lawyer up.

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As both a former lawyer and judge from across the pond, I have to throw my 2 cents worth. Well at $250 an hours its a little more than 2 cents, but here goes.

1. Not true that no contact means no liability. Based on the facts I don't think Bill has much to worry about, but there can be no contact fault.

2. Contacting insurance and giving a statement is very wise. Here in the US we attorneys are taught to file a claim against every possible person. Failure to do so can be mal-practice making the attorney liable. Whenever a client asks me if they can be sued for something I reply that they can be sued if someone does not like their neck tie. Winning is another matter. I have represented clients that I truly believed had no liability, yet the client (insurance company actually) will often agreed to pay some amount just to get it over with.

3. The car behind is not always at fault. In this case I would say yes, but I had one case where the car behind was already stopped and the car ahead somehow put it in reverse causing the accident. Lack of working tail lights can make the car ahead at "fault."

4. Leaving the location as the second car did is a felony in most if not all US states. Unless something prevented you from stopping. I successfully represented a young man charged with hit and run. It seems that his car suffered damage that made his throttle stick and brakes fail. He did stop about 5 blocks away after he had turned off the engine and coasted to a stop.

5. Contacting an attorney is not necessary so long as you have insurance. The insurance company will retain an attorney that they have under contract to defend you. After all if you lose they pay.

6. If you want to recover for emotional distress, see a doctor or psychologist. Sounds like you have real damages, loss of work, but recover is not allowed unless there is physical damage. You will need a medical person to state that you suffered physically if you want to make a claim. (exception to rule 5 if you want to make a claim then find a good personal injury lawyer. He will be able to lead you to the appropriate medical treatment and it will normally cost you nothing until the case settles.

Oh I could go on, but your free consultation is over.

PS this is based on California Law, the laws of your state, your country could and most likely are different. This is not a solicitation for employment or direct legal consultation. This information is provided to solicit open discussion and may not apply to your facts. If you have any questions consult a lawyer licensed within your jurisdiction. (I have to be careful. Don't want anyone saying that I am practicing law without a license.)

There are a few other exceptions to the following car always being at fault. I have been involved in an accident where the lead car of two hit the brakes hard (correctly, never mind exactly why). The second car would probably have cleared the lead car if it were not for the idiot that darted between the two while the lead vehicles brakes were locked (no, I was NOT in the car that darted into the middle). It was deemed to be entirely the fault of the car that darted into the middle. Oh, yes, I made myself involved by sticking around to 1) see if everyone was OK, and 2) talk to the police about what I saw.

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BOINC WIKI

Hi,
I was involved in a accident yesterday. I was travelling down a three laned road in Liverpool UK, in the middle lane, I was coming up to some lights approx 0.1 miles away at little over 30mph, when I noted this I slowed to below 30mph, I came off the throttle and put my foot on the brake pedal to prepare / start to slow the car down, dropped from 5th to 4th. A car behind me also started to brake, but the another car behind him swerved to avoid hitting the car behind me, cross the clear lane, and mounted the Kerb and seriously hurt two pedestrians. Myself and the KA were all in the middle lane I didnt see where the Mercedes came from.

Whats the likely out come of this? I and the Police noted that the man driving the car that mounted the pavement had a external cage fitted around his lower left leg.

Im worried sick for the young man involved, and in case its deemed I have braked too early etc and caused this horrific incident.

The Ford car in the middle (the one the Mercedes tried to avoid) didn't stick around and drove off.

any advice taken.

Admittedly, I am not from England, nor am I a layer. However, my understanding is that you do not have a problem. There was a red light in front of you. You are allowed to slow down in preparation to stop for the red light. 0.1 mile is a comfortable slow stop. You stuck around to deal with the police. You stayed in your lane. It is the driver of the third car that is in trouble for the accident. It is the driver of the second car that may be in trouble for leaving the scene of an accident with serious injuries. My feeling is that you are in the clear on this one.

BTW, the only way that you could wish the pedestrians well at this point is if you were friends before the accident, so don't contact them.

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BOINC WIKI

Apologies for being off subject, ...

the only good lawyer is a dead lawyer. All they are capable of is sucking the economic life from society and contribute nothing to that society.

I really feel the love John.

Carlos

I am sorry, and realised this came over badly for those practicing law.

In the UK, since the Government relaxed the law on Lawyers being able to advertise, there seems to be an endless stream of "ambulance chasing adverts". Most of these have the theme ... If you have had an accident then there is someone else to blame.

I come from a time of road accidents when the insurance companies sorted things out between them, and involved their own retained lawyers. It is the intervention of the ambulance chasers that that has pushed up premiums on insurance and made things very complicated for little gain.

As an outsider looking in at the contribution these professional people seem to have made to the whole is to - (a)take advantage of a situation; (b) made a lot of money for themselves; and, (c) not made any iota of difference to the RTA situation.

Indeed the main problem has been that people are advised on a "butt covering" actions. This was the basis of my comment, not on personal experience as I have (touch wood) had 19 years of accident free motoring covering over 475,000 miles in that time.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues