To the left of the posting box are placed "The Rules". A description as to what is permitted and what is not permitted to be posted on these fora.

"The Rules" thenselves seem pretty straight forward. Posts must be "Kid Friendly", no commercial adverts, nothing insulting, nothing too suggestive and no "nasty" links. Yes it all sounds pretty reasonable.

However, in practice, it does not work as straight forwardly as "The Rules" would suggest. Too often it seems posts or threads are hidden purely on the basis of a Moderator's personal biases rather than any actual infraction of "The Rules". In the past I can recall threads/posts being hidden because someone called someone else a "jackass" which is hardly a major flame. Yet posts that use asterixes instead of vowels in certain critical places remain ev*n though every*ne knows what is be*ng inferred.

I would like to know just what is the moderation procedure. Is a post/thread hidden purely on the whim of one person or is a majority decision required ? What steps are taken to ensure moderation policy is fair and equal in it's application across all boards and all posters ? I realise these boards are not a Democracy but some consistency would be nice. It would also be appreciated by the "Great Unwashed" if The Moderators could post a reason for making a post/thread disappear rather than sending it to limbo without a second thought. The Rules are to the Left, it would take no effort at all to nominate which one has been broken. This is done on other boards, why not here ?

Finally. What is the criteria for a person being selected as a moderator ? It seems to have nothing to do with their number of posts to the boards, cash donations or contribution to The Project in any other way. Indeed, some moderators have been only just above the minimum RAC that enables them to post to the boards. New Moderators just seem appear from nowhere, then when their term has finished, the majority of them just disappear back from whence they came. There are a few exceptions to this, but most moderators over the last few years I had not heard of until they popped up with "Moderator" on their profile.
T.A.

flames will always be hidden. If I were to call myself a jackass, no biggy. name calling is still a no no. It's not nice coming from small children and as adults we should be above that. We have the ability to discuss without calling someone a moron. Though you can still call someones idea moronic.

Unless things have changed the Politics forum is a bit more adult oriented though taunts and abuse are still a no no. though a bit stronger language is also allowed to some extent here.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

...
Indeed, some moderators have been only just above the minimum RAC that enables them to post to the boards. New Moderators just seem appear from nowhere, then when their term has finished, the majority of them just disappear back from whence they came.

...

Well, i thought that also to myself.

Another thing..."Kid Friendly" - how old are "Kids" for you. I don't belive
a 5 year old Boy/Girl (that's a Kid for my understanding) will go at the
SETI@home Forum and read in Politics or Number Crunching. LOL

And older Kids - well they have these days a often more poor pronunciation than i
have read here before. :D

Helli

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A loooong time ago: First Credits after SETI@home Restart

First, the moderation policy is publicly available can be viewed at Moderation. As Seti is a Multinational group of people. At times there are things which are typed; which offend people from another part of the world. Thus the job as a moderator, is not going to be easy. I could spend 4 hours typing what I know and it would still be incomplete. So here is the short version (thus there may be sins of omission). That is okay.

To the left of the posting box are placed "The Rules". A description as to what is permitted and what is not permitted to be posted on these fora.

"The Rules" themselves seem pretty straight forward. Posts must be "Kid Friendly", no commercial adverts, nothing insulting, nothing too suggestive and no "nasty" links. Yes it all sounds pretty reasonable.

Over the last few months some things have been relaxed a bit. The individual Forums have slightly different rules that are told the the moderators as they are welcomed on board. The goal is to have a cross section of moderators from around the world both female and male.

However, in practice, it does not work as straight forwardly as "The Rules" would suggest. Too often it seems posts or threads are hidden purely on the basis of a Moderator's personal biases rather than any actual infraction of "The Rules". In the past I can recall threads/posts being hidden because someone called someone else a "jackass" which is hardly a major flame. Yet posts that use asterixes instead of vowels in certain critical places remain ev*n though every*ne knows what is be*ng inferred.

Unfortunately, there are things that happened to cause a message/thread to become hidden. What happens next is any messages that quoted from the original then are removed. Or what you thought you saw is now gone. Honestly, any message/thread is not gone it just not viewable by users or web crawlers. It is viewable by moderators and administrators. This is for a review process (for every ones protection).

I would like to know just what is the moderation procedure. Is a post/thread hidden purely on the whim of one person or is a majority decision required ? What steps are taken to ensure moderation policy is fair and equal in it's application across all boards and all posters ? I realise these boards are not a Democracy but some consistency would be nice. It would also be appreciated by the "Great Unwashed" if The Moderators could post a reason for making a post/thread disappear rather than sending it to limbo without a second thought. The Rules are to the Left, it would take no effort at all to nominate which one has been broken. This is done on other boards, why not here ?

As there are things that offend other users from around the world and are against the rules, sometime a Red-x happens notifying the moderators something needs to be looked at. Whichever moderator(s) are around look. If there is something that is obviously against the rules, it is gone. In some cases a discussion happens in the moderators email. What can be decided is no action is necessary. In some cases, it can be determined that a post should be hidden or unhidden. There are cases where a specific user who is prone to causing issues for his/her own pleasure/enjoyment which the moderators note over time. Then they tend to look on the message/post in a less understanding manner.
If there is a thread where rules were posted by the Originator and a Red-x about off Topic. It is gone. If it is a Flame it is gone.

If a user feels that their post/message was/were removed out of hand, there is redress (which is stated in each modeation notice). Email the Seti moderators Seti_moderators (at) ssl.berkeley.edu with your original moderation notice and everyone will look at it. Please note there may be some delay as many of the moderators live in time zones around the world, someone is going to be asleep. In some cases, you will receive an almost immediate reply with more reasons or you will have to wait for the moderators discussion to complete. If you feel that you received an unsatisfactory answer from the moderators, you can then email the original request and quote any replies from the moderators to Seti Forums Admin (Fred) at setiforums (at) ssl.berkeley.edu. Please be prepared to wait for a bit. This means that Fred taking time away from Seti Servers and other administrative business will need to see your email (and if you send the original moderation notice) can look at the original post and others that are in context. Fred can then look at moderator discussion. Fred can then let you know that(s)he agrees, then the post/thread will be unhidden. The moderators will also have notification about the action. From that instructions about easing or increasing attention to various areas/indiciduals of moderation can occur.

Finally. What is the criteria for a person being selected as a moderator ? It seems to have nothing to do with their number of posts to the boards, cash donations or contribution to The Project in any other way. Indeed, some moderators have been only just above the minimum RAC that enables them to post to the boards. New Moderators just seem appear from nowhere, then when their term has finished, the majority of them just disappear back from whence they came. There are a few exceptions to this, but most moderators over the last few years I had not heard of until they popped up with "Moderator" on their profile.
T.A.

Anyone can apply to become a moderator, see Fred's address above. Generally Moderators at points in time recommended various Seti users to for the position. Fred reviews posting history and form an opinion. (S)he may send an email asking if the user would consider the position. This is based on goal that Fred has to move moderation policies in whichever direction. My own opinion is that the current moderators has the best interests of the Seti Users and Seti at heart. It does not mean they do not make mistakes, it means when a mistake might happen they learn. They support each other in the best interest of you the Seti Users and Seti. For the part, where they came from may be a forum that you do not always visit. For Rac, they may have only one very old computer, it does not make them less worthy that some who spend all their time keeping 15+ machines running. It does give them some insight about how the majority of users view Seti.

All this said, these are only my words. They represent my feelings about what I have learned and thus guides how I react to posts/messages/threads which violate rules and policy.

For now my personal feeling are this is a good discussion about moderation policy. If someone brings up a "specific instance" about individual(s) that violates the rules, it will be removed.

Regards

Pappa

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Thanks Pappa for a good general explanation but you did not answer many of my questions.

First, the moderation policy is publicly available can be viewed at Moderation.

Yes but that page is basically a duplicate of "The Rules" thereis no "meat" in it for anyone looking for further information on policy

Honestly, any message/thread is not gone it just not viewable by users or web crawlers.

If we can't see it, it's "gone". :-)

As there are things that offend other users from around the world and are against the rules, sometime a Red-x happens notifying the moderators something needs to be looked at. Whichever moderator(s) are around look. If there is something that is obviously against the rules, it is gone. In some cases a discussion happens in the moderators email. What can be decided is no action is necessary. In some cases, it can be determined that a post should be hidden or unhidden.

This answer is the meat. There are some posts that are obviously rule breakers, but what about if something is stated or quoted in an ironic or satirical sense as has happened a few times in the past year? Are the moderators just "literate computers" that always take things in the literal sense or is allowance made for figures of speech?

Obviously a "Red X" is an alert but your answer still implies that the whim of the individual moderator has a lot to do whether a post is hidden or not and therefore what one moderator may find ok, the next might find "offensive". This is what led to my original observation about a lack of consistency in the moderation procedure. I would also like to mention that the language in some of the "Language Other Than English" threads has gotten quite raunchy at times yet no action has been taken. Is it only English speaking "kids" that need to be protected?

Anyone can apply to become a moderator, see Fred's address above. Generally Moderators at points in time recommended various Seti users to for the position. ......<snip>...... For the part, where they came from may be a forum that you do not always visit. For Rac, they may have only one very old computer, it does not make them less worthy that some who spend all their time keeping 15+ machines running. It does give them some insight about how the majority of users view Seti.

I was not inferring that to be a Mod a person had to be a Megacruncher, have donated a zillion dollars or have thousands of posts on the boards. However I have noticed over the years that some new moderators have appeared virtually out of nowhere. It's the apparent lack of previous involvement with the project or the fora that concerns me. Indeed, in the past there have been people that appear to have maintained an RAC just above the cut off point for posting, just so they could be a Moderator.

T.A.

Terror from what I have seen, moderators are picked, by the empowerment of the administrators. Basis I presume is even natured, considered fair, and priority of protecting the forums from chaos or spirals into the sewer.

excessive ANYthing can be considered spamming, and therefor disruptive. Pushing limits is going to get you noticed by moderators, but not in a good way.

From what Pappa (and others) have said, it is at the hands of a single semi-random moderator, although it is subject to peer review upon challenge. Peer being the other moderators.

Directions/rules come from the labs and thereby indirectly from Campus policy.

... the preceding is perception of the bleachers. Am I about right here?

---

Janice

Please Note
I am not "gunning" for anyone. I'm just asking questions that have built up in the back of mind over a period of years and I think the current climate is conducive to getting them answered.

T.A.

I suppose I should chime in a little here, seeing as how I am the recent 'inspiration' for the discussion.

First of all, I don't hate the current mod crew, most of them seem to be good folks. And I suppose, that given my history, my activities on the boards may garner a little more scrutiny than some.

Most of the problems I have had start with me stepping a little over the line, and when stopped and asked about it, I go a little more over the line, and...........well, you can imagine where it goes from there.

Enough about me....I don't want to cross the line about discussing specific mod actions. Fred has been liberal enough to OK discussing moderation in general here, and I think that has been overdue for a long time. Thank you Fred for allowing civil discussion on the topic.

As far as new mods go, my understanding is they are nominated by others, or can nominate themselves to Fred. I believe he makes the final decisions. Based on time zone, possibly gender, and possibly the demeanor shown in their past posting history. Whatever else he takes into consideration only he could answer. I certainly would not qualify at this point in time....so please, nobody nominate me, or Fred will cough his coffee all over his keyboard....LOL.

A lot rides in their hands.......
Consider this. I am in the top 10 crunchers on the project. I have recently helped with a number of fund drives raising many thousands of dollars for the project. Which resulted in our new servers Oscar and Carolyn. And yet, when I get out of line.....
A jury of, at last count 7, can kick me off the boards for a couple of weeks, or even more. That's a lot of power given to very few.

One last point...
May the mods consider that the red-x is a means for somebody on the boards to bring to their attention a post that they have a problem with.
Please realize, it can also be used by some as a means to poke at somebody they happen not to like behind the scenes. This may or may not be happening. Just try to keep track of who is red-xing who. Not everybody loves the kitties.

All I should say right now.

Please keep this thread civil, my friends, as I feel it is very important that we are able to discuss such things without them being kept under the sheets.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

May the mods consider that the red-x is a means for somebody on the boards to bring to their attention a post that they have a problem with.

Please realize, it can also be used by some as a means to poke at somebody they happen not to like behind the scenes. This may or may not be happening. Just try to keep track of who is red-xing who. Not everybody loves the kitties.

Mark, I am quite sure that the mods are fully aware of that sort of thing, and make the necessary allowances.

Oh, I not sure sometimes....

I can't see everything that goes on behind my back.....
although I am aware of more than most know.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

---

I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

I do not think that is the moderators responsibility.

---

Janice

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

I do not think that is the moderators responsibility.

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

---

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

I do not think that is the moderators responsibility.

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

My job is to keep the Kitties Of Wisconsin's perspective in view.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

I do not think that is the moderators responsibility.

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

And how, exactly, are they, as volunteers rather than employees, made aware of this and then monitored to make sure they are indeed doing this? Not to say that this currently a matter of concern ... .

This is how I handle things.
When I post as a regular poster that's what I am.
When I moderate I show NO favorites, I moderate.
The second is the Hard part...That is why we have several Moderators working together to help each other keep things in perspective.

Well, sometime MY perspective it hard to keep in view too, eh?

I do not think that is the moderators responsibility.

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

And how, exactly, are they, as volunteers rather than employees, made aware of this and then monitored to make sure they are indeed doing this? Not to say that this currently a matter of concern ... .

It should not be a need of concern for most Seti posters.....

The simple ones seldom cross the lines.

It's only the ones who chose, by actions or thoughts, that run amuck.

I have made my amends with the mods, I think.

And every day try to not cross the lines.

I will break through any day now, because my thoughts supersede my intentions.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

And how, exactly, are they, as volunteers rather than employees, made aware of this and then monitored to make sure they are indeed doing this? Not to say that this currently a matter of concern ... .

Aware, by the moderation policies. They are monitored by supervision. The behind the scenes communication between the moderators and all the complaints that come in are cc'd to employees of the Regents. Of course the employees can fail to do their job, but that is a matter between the employee and the Regents. If you feel that is happening you could take it up with the Regents. I'd advise against that unless it gets to criminal behavior by the employee, and that isn't going to happen.

---

I now leave this discussion.........

I have posted my views.

Enough has been said on my part.

You may continue to bash about, as some in this forum seem to do.

I, for one, have had closure.

The mods and I have come to a detante.

They know me who for I am, and I know who they are.
Fred, well.......Fred bears witness.

No more animosity here. I hope it stands on the other side.

This thread should now be locked.

As it is written, as it should be.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Their job is to keep the Regents of the University of California's perspective in view.

And how, exactly, are they, as volunteers rather than employees, made aware of this and then monitored to make sure they are indeed doing this? Not to say that this currently a matter of concern ... .

Aware, by the moderation policies. They are monitored by supervision. The behind the scenes communication between the moderators and all the complaints that come in are cc'd to employees of the Regents. Of course the employees can fail to do their job, but that is a matter between the employee and the Regents. If you feel that is happening you could take it up with the Regents. I'd advise against that unless it gets to criminal behavior by the employee, and that isn't going to happen.

I would hope that should any volunteer moderators be exhibiting criminal behaviour as part of their moderator role that they would be immediately removed and dealt with.

It is my understanding that even if the employee is a volunteer, then Berkeley is still responsible for what they do.

This is not something I have any concerns with regarding the current crop of moderators, and now with Fred as an active and engaged admin I assume that if there are any complaints from people in this regard, that those making the complaints won't be dealt with as "trouble makers" thus making the problem worse.

---

Reality Internet Personality

This answer is the meat. There are some posts that are obviously rule breakers, but what about if something is stated or quoted in an ironic or satirical sense as has happened a few times in the past year? Are the moderators just "literate computers" that always take things in the literal sense or is allowance made for figures of speech?

Obviously a "Red X" is an alert but your answer still implies that the whim of the individual moderator has a lot to do whether a post is hidden or not and therefore what one moderator may find ok, the next might find "offensive". This is what led to my original observation about a lack of consistency in the moderation procedure. I would also like to mention that the language in some of the "Language Other Than English" threads has gotten quite raunchy at times yet no action has been taken. Is it only English speaking "kids" that need to be protected?

This is tougher to answer other than my personal point of view or experience. Back in the Seti Classic Days when the Forums were created, UCB provided that posts/message should meet a strict social/decency criteria of PG-13. A Seti User should only post things which are ethically, socially and morally responsable. If a User, sees something that is obviously wrong and fails to report it. It would tend to provide that the moderators should be stricter and some things that are allowed to exist, be closed. Or it becomes the moderators job to search out everything...

I recall, when a discussion (Admin/Moderator) of an "AutoMod" function which might make life easier during a time when things were tougher. The simple sheer volume of posts to the Forums on a daily basis is hard to picture. The "AutoMod" was a true word/phrase list processor, as each message went through it when "Post Reply" was hit. It could end up in a hidden post or could also end in the case of certain restricted words end up in an AutoBan function (Racism is a big NoNo). It can not tell a user that if you re post this without a phrase or a quote (from a previous message/post) that it will be fine.
I would presume that "we" are fortunate, in that AutoMod would have no ability to read other messages above and below what is presumed a questionable post and decide whether it fits within the policy and rules (as a function of the specific Forum) and the flow of the Forum Thread. The human moderators do allow some things to slide by due to the context of what is happening. Yes there are some things that others might not object that are removed. That is the objective opinion of whichever moderator (or the results of discussion).

The moderators are human and only about half the the number they should be given that total number of messages and forums. Which leaves us with a couple of humans (female/male) attempting to read everything posted. Then deciding the merit of questionable posts.

Regards

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.