If your going to tell me it's all about the science stop right now! It is for the folks at Berkeley, but it's not all about the science for me.

I have a few recently returned wu's that are being granted 0 credit. My machines are not overclocked and it various between my XPSP2 machine and my W98SE machines (I think I know why it's happening of the W98 machine).

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=3578197

Is this a function of the 3rd returnee bug again? Is it a function of Linux hosts screwing Windoze hosts for credit?

Happy crunching,

---

Paul
(S@H1 8888)
And proud of it!

I got one of those except all were crunched by
Win.
http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=3540096

mine took the shortest time and i ended up with nowt! go figure!!!

> If your going to tell me it's all about the science stop right now! It is for
> the folks at Berkeley, but it's not all about the science for me.

And what will be your other purpouse? Just curious, no criticising!

---

<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=1331">

> I got one of those except all were crunched by
> Win.
> http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=3540096
>
> mine took the shortest time and i ended up with nowt! go figure!!!
>

Same here. I'm getting several invalid results per day instead of
one every two weeks or so.

Anyone of the seti crew listening? ;-)

[EDIT]
The last three invalids came in third.
This doesn't look good!
[/EDIT]


Regards Hans

---

> If your going to tell me it's all about the science stop right now! It is for
> the folks at Berkeley, but it's not all about the science for me.

This machine:

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=326921

... seems to be returning incredibly low results.

Why it would claim 9 while the other machines claim 40-something seems unreasonable.

---

> > If your going to tell me it's all about the science stop right now! It
> is for
> > the folks at Berkeley, but it's not all about the science for me.
>
> This machine:
>
> http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=326921
>
> ... seems to be returning incredibly low results.
>
> Why it would claim 9 while the other machines claim 40-something seems
> unreasonable.
>

I guess someone switched from windows to linux :o).
The benchmark results seem to be ridiculously low for the Pentium M
under linux.

Regards Hans

---

Bump for this...

I too am getting more that normal number of invalid results, all being the 3rd returned result :(

seen quite a few in the last 5 days or so

---

*** My Guide to Compiling Optimised BOINC and SETI Clients ***
*** Download Optimised BOINC and SETI Clients for Linux Here ***

This is why I'm "on vacation" from seti!

(I've got over 14k credits with seti, but can see that a boatload got lost due to server problems - 30%?)

What really suprises me is that Predictor, LHC, and CP never seems to have the problems seen with seti... And the seti crew should understand Boinc better than anyone! (same people, same lab!)

I'll have popcorn and beers the day they shut down classic seti, just to watch how bad it gets!

Heck the 4.05 slowdown on windows has been around for how long now? (while crunching, doing the same science,on the same WU's, on Linux, has been consistant! This isn't rocket science!

The chimps probably have midterms, but this should be their midterm! I'm watching "the Apprentice" right now, and it seems that someone should say "You're Fired!"

---

> This is why I'm "on vacation" from seti!
>
> (I've got over 14k credits with seti, but can see that a boatload got lost due
> to server problems - 30%?)
>
> What really suprises me is that Predictor, LHC, and CP never seems to have the
> problems seen with seti... And the seti crew should understand Boinc better
> than anyone! (same people, same lab!)
>
> I'll have popcorn and beers the day they shut down classic seti, just to watch
> how bad it gets!
>
> Heck the 4.05 slowdown on windows has been around for how long now? (while
> crunching, doing the same science,on the same WU's, on Linux, has been
> consistant! This isn't rocket science!
>
> The chimps probably have midterms, but this should be their midterm! I'm
> watching "the Apprentice" right now, and it seems that someone should say
> "You're Fired!"
>

Glad to see you are still the same old, narrow minded Woody lololololol


From a post by Paul;

From the "Rules and Policy"

===============
Liability

SETI@home and University of California assume no liability for damage to your
computer, loss of data, or any other event or condition that may occur as a
result of participating in SETI@home.

Other BOINC projects

Other projects use the same platform, BOINC, as SETI@home. You may want to
consider participating in one or more of these projects. By doing so, your
computer will do useful work even when SETI@home has no work available for
it.

These other projects are not associated with SETI@home, and we cannot vouch
for their security practices or the nature of their research. Join them at
your own risk.
==============

From the Credit Page:

Claimed credit is reported to a project when your computer communicates with
its server. The granted credit that you receive may be different from the
claimed credit, and there may be a delay of a few hours or days before it is
granted. This is because some BOINC projects grant credit only after results
have been validated.

================

From "Getting Started":

Please keep in mind:

There may be a delay of several days between when your computer reports a
result and when it is granted credit for the result. Your User page shows
you how much credit is 'pending' (claimed but not granted).
The credit-granting process starts when your computer reports a result to the
server (not when it finishes computing the result or uploading the output
files).
In rare cases (e.g. if errors occur on one or more computers) you may never
receive credit for a computation.

=================


There is no implied commitment by the developers of BOINC, any of the
projects, or anyone else that this is a "risk free" environment. Nor that it
is even worth your time. We are volunteers, they are trying to stay
responsive to us, and to create a new environment for the pursuit of science.

As much as I am unhappy with some of the day to day problems, we have come a
long way from when I first participated in the BOINC Beta program (I came in
after they had switched from the astropulse application to the SETI, for what
that is worth, though BOINC insisted that the WU were AP's).

Anyway, smile, it could be worse ...

---

Semper Eadem
So long Paul, it has been a hell of a ride.

Park your ego's, fire up the computers, Science YES, Credits No.

>
> Glad to see you are still the same old, narrow minded Woody lololololol

And I'm glad to see that you still like to post volumes of text that you don't understand! It is a bit better than your posts that say absolutly nothing, 'cause they make me ask "does this guy have kids in the gene pool?"

Go back to 7-11 and grab another quart of Old Milwaukee before it closes!

---

you just stepped over the line DO NOT pick on beer even old Milwaukee

Beer is the only thing that makes the credit system Bearable

Coors for everyone

one old drunk for Seti

---

<img border="0" src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=935" />

I first came one seti-at-home over 4 years ago, 'cause I liked the cool looking screensaver. Then I felt some sense of pride to know that I was contributing to some etherial worthy goal of finding ET. Then I saw my credits growing, and I thought, hey this is cool! Then someone told me it would run faster if I turned the screen saver off. I did, and sho-nuff it ran faster. More credits! I began to get greedy, putting more machines on, crunching more, getting more time and more WU's. What heady times they were.

Then I switchred to BOINC. I found out first that credit is granted from what someone else's machine did. I found out that I didn't get any credit until 3 WU's were returned. I found out that if my machine burbed during an upload...no credit. I found out that after version updates to the seti client, that credit for work that hadn't been granted under the previous version would never be granted. I found out that not only did I need to have a quorum of results, but that even when I did nothing to my machine, that my client software was cheating during the processing of a workunit, and that if it did, I would get no credit, even though I had no control over my client. Then I found out that even if I did everything that I was supposed to, that if my WU looked different from the other two in the quorum, that the other two would get credit and I would get none. It was INVALID, I was told.

I started complaining. I even had an answer to one of my complaints on the QUESTION AND PROBLEMS board come back:

"Mostly credit is not usefull for anything. It can still be compared to other peoples credit since they are laboring under the same problems as everyone else."

I then found out that on these boards that the majority seem to be people who believe themselves to be superior to us stupid boobs who just want to contribute and see some result of their contribution that matches the time spent contributing. We're in this for the science they said, as though that's some kind of superior reason for being here. "You volunteered for this" they said..."shut up and keep crunching"..."its the science" afterall. "The system was designed to keep cheaters from cheating." WHAT? How can you cheat? Overclocking? I've never done that, nor did I know it could be done, nor would I know how to do it if I tried. "Seti has no liability for screwing up your machine", and since they're scientists, you just need to trust that they know what's best for you. OK, heard it, been there, done that. I'm done.

I think the credit system was designed by someone as part of their doctoral thesis. I think they wanted to see how bad they could bog down a machine with useless calculations, coming up with results that don't mean anything to anyone. Maybe that's why there's been so many glitches in this stupid system, its taking so much time calculating credits that it saps all the computer power from the main purpose of sending out and receiving work units. Give me the old Classic number of workunits and time spent crunching of seti-Classic. That's all I really care about anyway. And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. OK, now all of you pinheaded science cheerleaders out there, go jump! And I haven't even had my Old Milwaukee yet. I am on a permanent vacation from seti just for this reason. As of tonight, the seti software is de-installed from my computers and you guys have loads of fun. Bye.

---

> you just stepped over the line DO NOT pick on beer even old Milwaukee
>
> Beer is the only thing that makes the credit system Bearable
>
> Coors for everyone
>
> one old drunk for Seti
>

Fred C, you sound like a perfect candidate for joining Team Beer.

> >
> > Glad to see you are still the same old, narrow minded Woody lololololol
>
> And I'm glad to see that you still like to post volumes of text that you don't
> understand! It is a bit better than your posts that say absolutly nothing,
> 'cause they make me ask "does this guy have kids in the gene pool?"
>
> Go back to 7-11 and grab another quart of Old Milwaukee before it closes!
>


You are so funny.........;o)

---

Semper Eadem
So long Paul, it has been a hell of a ride.

Park your ego's, fire up the computers, Science YES, Credits No.

> That's all I really care about anyway. And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. OK, now all

ROTFL

That just kills me. All guts and glory for what -- a few numbers you can proudly display in a banner? Dude ... lol

---

> I think the credit system was designed by someone as part of their doctoral
> thesis. I think they wanted to see how bad they could bog down a machine with
> useless calculations, coming up with results that don't mean anything to
> anyone.

No, that's what's commonly referred to as "Microsoft Windows". Nothing bogs down a CPU and 10 GIGs of memory better than Windows.

> Maybe that's why there's been so many glitches in this stupid system,
> its taking so much time calculating credits that it saps all the computer
> power from the main purpose of sending out and receiving work units.

If you don't like it, uninstall it. There's no gun to your head. You can always play online games for bragging rights; at least they have an annual world championship that will get you out of the house.

> Give me
> the old Classic number of workunits and time spent crunching of seti-Classic.
> That's all I really care about anyway. And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE.

I'm sure E.T. is really honked off about that little factoid.

> OK, now all
> of you pinheaded science cheerleaders out there, go jump! And I haven't even
> had my Old Milwaukee yet. I am on a permanent vacation from seti just for
> this reason. As of tonight, the seti software is de-installed from my
> computers and you guys have loads of fun. Bye.

We'll miss you...much like we miss dental work and venereal disease.

---

Stewie: So, is there any tread left on the tires? Or at this point would it be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway?

Fox Sunday (US) at 9PM ET/PT

> I first came one seti-at-home over 4 years ago, 'cause I liked the cool
> looking screensaver. Then I felt some sense of pride to know that I was
> contributing to some etherial worthy goal of finding ET. Then I saw my
> credits growing, and I thought, hey this is cool! Then someone told me it
> would run faster if I turned the screen saver off. I did, and sho-nuff it ran
> faster. More credits! I began to get greedy, putting more machines on,
> crunching more, getting more time and more WU's. What heady times they were.
>
>
> Then I switchred to BOINC. I found out first that credit is granted from what
> someone else's machine did. I found out that I didn't get any credit until 3
> WU's were returned. I found out that if my machine burbed during an
> upload...no credit. I found out that after version updates to the seti
> client, that credit for work that hadn't been granted under the previous
> version would never be granted. I found out that not only did I need to have
> a quorum of results, but that even when I did nothing to my machine, that my
> client software was cheating during the processing of a workunit, and that if
> it did, I would get no credit, even though I had no control over my client.
> Then I found out that even if I did everything that I was supposed to, that if
> my WU looked different from the other two in the quorum, that the other two
> would get credit and I would get none. It was INVALID, I was told.
>
> I started complaining. I even had an answer to one of my complaints on the
> QUESTION AND PROBLEMS board come back:
>
> "Mostly credit is not usefull for anything. It can still be compared to other
> peoples credit since they are laboring under the same problems as everyone
> else."
>
> I then found out that on these boards that the majority seem to be people who
> believe themselves to be superior to us stupid boobs who just want to
> contribute and see some result of their contribution that matches the time
> spent contributing. We're in this for the science they said, as though that's
> some kind of superior reason for being here. "You volunteered for this" they
> said..."shut up and keep crunching"..."its the science" afterall. "The system
> was designed to keep cheaters from cheating." WHAT? How can you cheat?
> Overclocking? I've never done that, nor did I know it could be done, nor
> would I know how to do it if I tried. "Seti has no liability for screwing up
> your machine", and since they're scientists, you just need to trust that they
> know what's best for you. OK, heard it, been there, done that. I'm done.
>
> I think the credit system was designed by someone as part of their doctoral
> thesis. I think they wanted to see how bad they could bog down a machine with
> useless calculations, coming up with results that don't mean anything to
> anyone. Maybe that's why there's been so many glitches in this stupid system,
> its taking so much time calculating credits that it saps all the computer
> power from the main purpose of sending out and receiving work units. Give me
> the old Classic number of workunits and time spent crunching of seti-Classic.
> That's all I really care about anyway. And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. OK, now all
> of you pinheaded science cheerleaders out there, go jump! And I haven't even
> had my Old Milwaukee yet. I am on a permanent vacation from seti just for
> this reason. As of tonight, the seti software is de-installed from my
> computers and you guys have loads of fun. Bye.
>Bye

---

> And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. >


There is a big PRIZE for the TOP CRUNCHERS at the end of the project and anyone told me about this or all you hidding tihs fact!
I'll go buy today 500 PC to be the first at the end and win the prize!

Anyone know what the prize will be? I am very curious about this!

---

<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=1331">

> > And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> > FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. >
>
>
> There is a big PRIZE for the TOP CRUNCHERS at the end of the project and
> anyone told me about this or all you hidding tihs fact!
> I'll go buy today 500 PC to be the first at the end and win the prize!
>
> Anyone know what the prize will be? I am very curious about this!
>

Ooh ooh, I hope it's an Xbox!

---

> I first came one seti-at-home over 4 years ago, 'cause I liked the cool
> looking screensaver. Then I felt some sense of pride to know that I was
> contributing to some etherial worthy goal of finding ET. Then I saw my
> credits growing, and I thought, hey this is cool! Then someone told me it
> would run faster if I turned the screen saver off. I did, and sho-nuff it ran
> faster. More credits! I began to get greedy, putting more machines on,
> crunching more, getting more time and more WU's. What heady times they were.

Me too ...

> Then I switchred to BOINC. I found out first that credit is granted from what
> someone else's machine did. I found out that I didn't get any credit until 3
> WU's were returned. I found out that if my machine burbed during an
> upload...no credit. I found out that after version updates to the seti
> client, that credit for work that hadn't been granted under the previous
> version would never be granted. I found out that not only did I need to have
> a quorum of results, but that even when I did nothing to my machine, that my
> client software was cheating during the processing of a workunit, and that if
> it did, I would get no credit, even though I had no control over my client.
> Then I found out that even if I did everything that I was supposed to, that if
> my WU looked different from the other two in the quorum, that the other two
> would get credit and I would get none. It was INVALID, I was told.

This is because now, there are tests to see if the results returned are the "same" (within the error limits of the compares). And to improve the science this is done my processing the WU several times and making compares on the returned results. When there are matchs the results are stored in the science database. If a result is returned that does not compare, or if there are other errors within the data, you are right, there is no credit.

> I started complaining. I even had an answer to one of my complaints on the
> QUESTION AND PROBLEMS board come back:
>
> "Mostly credit is not usefull for anything. It can still be compared to other
> peoples credit since they are laboring under the same problems as everyone
> else."

Very true. This is even true for SETI@Home Classic. The big debate there was why do I get cheated with WU that take longer to process than others (mostly due to the Angle rate and noise) thereby cheating me out of my due ...

> I then found out that on these boards that the majority seem to be people who
> believe themselves to be superior to us stupid boobs who just want to
> contribute and see some result of their contribution that matches the time
> spent contributing. We're in this for the science they said, as though that's
> some kind of superior reason for being here. "You volunteered for this" they
> said..."shut up and keep crunching"..."its the science" afterall. "The system
> was designed to keep cheaters from cheating." WHAT? How can you cheat?
> Overclocking? I've never done that, nor did I know it could be done, nor
> would I know how to do it if I tried. "Seti has no liability for screwing up
> your machine", and since they're scientists, you just need to trust that they
> know what's best for you. OK, heard it, been there, done that. I'm done.

Though I am not a "boob" by your definition, I don't think you are one either. You have a complaint, and I sympathize, but if this is the worse problem in your life, then indeed, you are fortunate.

Because there were no comparisons done on the returned results in SETI@Home classic, some of the "participants" found that they could "game" the system in several ways thereby inflating their "contributions". Because the contributions were usually invalid they had the effect of not only artificially increasing their "credit" they also contaminated the results.

So, to account for the simple issue of the varying times it takes to process a WU the new system was created. This system, though imperfect and with some issues (bugs), is intended to:

a) Help to ensure that the results returned are "valid".
b) Ensure that differences in WU processing time does not impact credit awards.
c) Allow multiple projects to exist and create the same credit for the same effort.

> That's all I really care about anyway. And OK, I'll say it...YES I AM IN THIS
> FOR THE CREDIT. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S PITUTE ABOUT THE SCIENCE. OK, now all
> of you pinheaded science cheerleaders out there, go jump! And I haven't even
> had my Old Milwaukee yet. I am on a permanent vacation from seti just for
> this reason. As of tonight, the seti software is de-installed from my
> computers and you guys have loads of fun. Bye.

Most of the participants do like the golf course bragging rights. Vanity is a common, um, characteristic of people. We will miss you, believe me or not, but ... rants and threats, especially ones that are not carried out are:

a) childish
b) Counter-productive
c) undermine any validity to your complaint
d) lower your peersonal credibility

Anyway, if indeed you are gone, bye, we will miss you ...

---