I myself think that the idea of us being the only " intelligent " civilization in the Universe is an extremely arrogant point of view.

There are too many stars that may have planets like ours. The idea that things just " happened " to allow life on this planet and this planet ONLY is patently absurd to me.

You can talk about nearly everything here. Topics can range from Crop Circles to Alien Visitation. However...science vs. religion has a few rooms of it's own so I would prefer we keep it there.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

But there has been some talk about how the Solar System has remained between spiral arms of the galaxy for most of it's galactic years (each one being several millions of years long). - Therefore not subject to much higher life-destroying radiation from a more compact collection of stars!

As has been mentioned elsewhere, what if all the nearby (i.e. within a few thousand light years) intelligent life isn't yet beyond the iron age?!?

Then they'll be screwed when we show up on their doorstep!

But we just don't know what's out there. So we HAVE to do this SETI search - for centuries! We are only beginning!

SETI@home is one facet of SETI. I think that SETI is a worthwhile goal and I am helping how I can by participating in SETI@home.

SETI@home in its current state is unlikely to find "them" because limited resources dictate that it make several anthropomorphic assumptions and its sensitivity is such that only an intentional beacon would be found.

SETI@home is worthwhile on its own since it would "rude" of us to ignore such a beacon... but each person participating on this project also adds a bit of credibility to the whole concept of SETI. That brings funding to improve SETI@home as well as helping other SETI projects in general.

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

community

intelligence

accomplishment




a goal worth the 'risk'

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

Credit

Points

Cobblestones

Is there any other reason?

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But we just don't know what's out there. So we HAVE to do this SETI search - for centuries! We are only beginning!

Bravo Chuck. It just may be that any other civilization out there may not be progressed beyond an Iron Age...or even an Ice age for that matter. But as far as I am concerned it really doesn't matter...because we simply don't know. I myself would LIKE to know. lol

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

First...I want to thank all of you for posting. I wasn't entirely sure that anyone would...but I figured it was worth a shot.

Second...I appreciate all the reasons people have for allowing the SETI system use the power of their home computer to help in the search. I am not entirely sure about the cobblestones though...lol.

Ok....let me pose a question then. It seems that everyone ( within reason ) believes that there MAY be life out there. If there IS....do you think we are already being observed? Or do you think that the vast majority of the sightings of " UFOs " are explained by science?

Like I said.....we can talk about pretty much anything. If someone has another question they would like to ask of everyone...feel free to ask it. I am only trying to get things going...lol. Crop Circles...Bigfoot....Yeti...nothing is really off limits. What does Bigfoot have to do with life on other planets? I dunno...maybe Bigfoot is a species from another planet. Why else would it ( IF it exists ) keep itself so well hidden?

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Bigfoot is actually an elaborate alien bionic robot, covered in fur.


On to other things:

That brings funding to improve SETI@home as well as helping other SETI projects in general

Y'know, call me cynical, but that kind of thing makes the government say "What do you need funding for? You have so much resources from the public helping you already!"

Next, the Fermi Paradox really does trouble me. I think he was right. The only way around this is that we are being sequestered, due to our hateful and warlike ways. If we are being observed, it will be by methods we will never detect with our current technology, not UFOs that make mistakes and are seen.

Bigfoot is actually an elaborate alien bionic robot, covered in fur.

Ya never know do ya??? lol

On to other things:

That brings funding to improve SETI@home as well as helping other SETI projects in general

Y'know, call me cynical, but that kind of thing makes the government say "What do you need funding for? You have so much resources from the public helping you already!"

True enough Chuck. But I would be willing to bet that a lot of SETI's funding doesn't come from the government. I would think that private organizations and corporations count for quite a good chunk of it. I don't have the figures...just my humble opinion.

Next, the Fermi Paradox really does trouble me. I think he was right. The only way around this is that we are being sequestered, due to our hateful and warlike ways. If we are being observed, it will be by methods we will never detect with our current technology, not UFOs that make mistakes and are seen.

I am going by what you stated here because I have read nothing on the Fermi Paradox. It is entirely possible that we are being sequestered. But it is also entirely possible that the " mistakes " of being seen aren't really mistakes, but intentional appearances with the thought that maybe we would wise up and give up the ways that are destroying us. It is just a shame that instead of any real investigation...most of the sightings are written off as hoaxes...or that the person making the claim is demented. Not to mention the fact that the UFO investigators that DO look into the sightings are not taken seriously by their " peers " in the scientific community.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Well, yes, bigfoot was the guardian for a group of aliens observing earth! Check out 'The Six-Million Dollar Man!' on Wikipedia!

I have known about Seti for many years and always thought it was a interesting undertaking from a computer science perspective (Massive Distributed Computing / Grid Computing). An open client like the BOINC client has huge potential for all kinds of scientific research that required tramendous computing power but don't have tramendous budgets (building/using super computers)..... for the first time in history, virtually anyone on the planet can now contribute (thanks to guru's that developed BOINC!) to projects that they think are worthwhile.

As for E.T. i am not convined that the SETI project will find anything worthwhile in my lifetime. The more i read and understood about the process for finding candidate signals etc it seems somewhat adhoc and poorly managed (possibly due to resources, funding etc). However i am confident this will improve (especially with real-time analysis coming - fingers crossed).

We need to stick with it though because continuous bleeps out of all that noise (if found) will make science (and everyone else) scratch their heads once again and will provide more robust evidence that something out there is creating bleeps.

Parallel to this effort, increasing camera technology will certainly improve terrestial evidence of visitations. When i look at crackly black/white footage of UFO's i just chuckle and click the 'x' on the top right corner. However science and technology and 100 Megapixel 100x zoom portable cameras are going to help (when they come) so called UFO footage is getting better every year.

And finally, the SETI message boards allow for somewhat civil discussion of alternate views on a very contraversial topic! (E.T.) and all related topics. There are other boards for chatting on these topics, but at the end of the day we are all crunchers so no matter what, there is a common denominator.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

I have known about Seti for many years and always thought it was a interesting undertaking from a computer science perspective (Massive Distributed Computing / Grid Computing). An open client like the BOINC client has huge potential for all kinds of scientific research that required tramendous computing power but don't have tramendous budgets (building/using super computers)..... for the first time in history, virtually anyone on the planet can now contribute (thanks to guru's that developed BOINC!) to projects that they think are worthwhile.

I have known about SETI itself for a few years. I didn't know about the @home program until a couple of years ago. The whole idea of the public using idle computer time to aid in processing information appealed to me.

We need to stick with it though because continuous bleeps out of all that noise (if found) will make science (and everyone else) scratch their heads once again and will provide more robust evidence that something out there is creating bleeps.

We very much need to stick with it. It would please me to know end to have something actually be found so it could leave all the " true " scientists scratching their heads. lol

Parallel to this effort, increasing camera technology will certainly improve terrestial evidence of visitations. When i look at crackly black/white footage of UFO's i just chuckle and click the 'x' on the top right corner. However science and technology and 100 Megapixel 100x zoom portable cameras are going to help (when they come) so called UFO footage is getting better every year.

The only problem I see here is that, even though the camera technology is getting better and better, the skill level of the amateurs handling those cameras isn't increasing in proportion with the technology. Photos will still be blurry and other such things because the people taking the photos aren't really trained to do so properly.

And finally, the SETI message boards allow for somewhat civil discussion of alternate views on a very contraversial topic! (E.T.) and all related topics. There are other boards for chatting on these topics, but at the end of the day we are all crunchers so no matter what, there is a common denominator.

Somewhat civil....yeah....that sounds about right....lol. I know that there are other boards for this type of discussion...but I decided to give it a shot and start one. I really like being able to have an intelligent discussion and that is sometimes hard to find.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Finding an intelligent discussion around here is indeed rare - loads of flame wars if you look around.

Doesn't it seem odd to people that photos of UFO's, if real, show us that they don't want us to know about them? Presumably such photos are accidents in their stealth technology, correct? So why don't they just come out in the open, send a postcard of them waving into the camera of a Mars rover, and then come land at the united nations for a press conference?

Maybe because all of the photos to date have been either mistaken or faked? There are a lot of faked sensational photos on the internet of other subjects alone...

Firstly, I've never found it to be a convincing argument...or even ANY TYPE of argument to state that we must not be alone because that idea is 'arrogant'. I know Carl Sagan said something similar to that but that does not make it an ARGUMENT.

Argue from chemistry, or the Drake equation, or something else. But to claim we are not 'alone' because it's an arrogant idea is just....well....meaningless at best.


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When it comes to UFO sightings and photos I believe most are natural phenomena. Just because the rest cannot be satisfactorally explained doesn't mean that that proves aliens are visiting here. Alot could be advanced military aircraft or whatever. Now, I grant you there are some very interesting testimonials involving multiple credible witnessess. But I'm not willing to assert I believe that is overwhelming evidence to prove that belief until we know it by them landing on the White House lawn..or even in a corn field somewhere and sitting there for a whole week while all of the networks make live broadcasts from the spot.

Bigfoot? Well, I don't know about that, would seem we would have found some bones. The most famous videos have already been proven to be fakes by way of confessions of the perpetrators. Same thing with the lochness monster. I'll believe it when we get good evidence to support it....but it makes for interesting stories, for sure.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Firstly, I've never found it to be a convincing argument...or even ANY TYPE of argument to state that we must not be alone because that idea is 'arrogant'. I know Carl Sagan said something similar to that but that does not make it an ARGUMENT.

Very true...it doesn't make it an argument. Just my humble opinion. It just happens to be shared by a lot of other folks.

Argue from chemistry, or the Drake equation, or something else. But to claim we are not 'alone' because it's an arrogant idea is just....well....meaningless at best.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a " meaningless " argument Robert. Any discussion ( argument if you prefer ) that makes an attempt at opening our minds to the possibility of intelligent life on other planets has,at the very least, some merit.


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When it comes to UFO sightings and photos I believe most are natural phenomena. Just because the rest cannot be satisfactorally explained doesn't mean that that proves aliens are visiting here. Alot could be advanced military aircraft or whatever. Now, I grant you there are some very interesting testimonials involving multiple credible witnessess. But I'm not willing to assert I believe that is overwhelming evidence to prove that belief until we know it by them landing on the White House lawn..or even in a corn field somewhere and sitting there for a whole week while all of the networks make live broadcasts from the spot.

I think if they sat in a cornfield for a week or so...someone would try to blow them up. lol

The most famous videos have already been proven to be fakes by way of confessions of the perpetrators.

Actually...there was just a program on the History Channel about Bigfoot. Scientists and film experts looking at all sides of that particular issue. I can't remember the name of the person that took the most famous of the Bigfoot films, but he has never said that it was faked. When the film was analyzed, something was found in the anatomy of the " creature " that suggested " very strongly " that it wasn't faked. The man who analyzed the film wouldn't go so far as to say that it wasn't a hoax, but that just kind of comes with the territory of trying to keep credibility.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Finding an intelligent discussion around here is indeed rare - loads of flame wars if you look around.

That is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to avoid when I started this thread. Probably WON'T be able to avoid it. But it was worth a shot...maybe the flamers won't notice our humble little discussion eh? lol

Maybe because all of the photos to date have been either mistaken or faked? There are a lot of faked sensational photos on the internet of other subjects alone...

One thing to keep in mind about this Chuck...photos of " UFOs " have been around a whole lot longer than the internet lol.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I came for the aliens, and I've stayed for the amazing byproducts of the project. Much like Enigma, I'm interested in the developments derived from this project and the others.

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Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.

I came for the aliens, and I've stayed for the amazing byproducts of the project. Much like Enigma, I'm interested in the developments derived from this project and the others.

I think ( considering the response that SETI has gotten ) that there are a whole lot more people with the same mindset. I had always thought that what SETI did was worthwhile. I just never imagined that offering a chance for regular people to aid them would become as big as it has.

I enjoy the thought that perhaps...just perhaps...one of us could process the packet of info that leads to a discovery. Even if it doesn't happen that way....I like being able to help. I must also admit that my curiosity has gotten the best of me. I really want to know if/when something gets discovered.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Firstly, I've never found it to be a convincing argument...or even ANY TYPE of argument to state that we must not be alone because that idea is 'arrogant'. I know Carl Sagan said something similar to that but that does not make it an ARGUMENT.

Very true...it doesn't make it an argument. Just my humble opinion. It just happens to be shared by a lot of other folks.

Argue from chemistry, or the Drake equation, or something else. But to claim we are not 'alone' because it's an arrogant idea is just....well....meaningless at best.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a " meaningless " argument Robert. Any discussion ( argument if you prefer ) that makes an attempt at opening our minds to the possibility of intelligent life on other planets has,at the very least, some merit.


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When it comes to UFO sightings and photos I believe most are natural phenomena. Just because the rest cannot be satisfactorally explained doesn't mean that that proves aliens are visiting here. Alot could be advanced military aircraft or whatever. Now, I grant you there are some very interesting testimonials involving multiple credible witnessess. But I'm not willing to assert I believe that is overwhelming evidence to prove that belief until we know it by them landing on the White House lawn..or even in a corn field somewhere and sitting there for a whole week while all of the networks make live broadcasts from the spot.

I think if they sat in a cornfield for a week or so...someone would try to blow them up. lol

The most famous videos have already been proven to be fakes by way of confessions of the perpetrators.

Actually...there was just a program on the History Channel about Bigfoot. Scientists and film experts looking at all sides of that particular issue. I can't remember the name of the person that took the most famous of the Bigfoot films, but he has never said that it was faked. When the film was analyzed, something was found in the anatomy of the " creature " that suggested " very strongly " that it wasn't faked. The man who analyzed the film wouldn't go so far as to say that it wasn't a hoax, but that just kind of comes with the territory of trying to keep credibility.

Knightmare....in the same post you agree with me and say that it is not an argument...then you state it is a type of non meaningless argument. Hmmm...confusing.

I believe there is or has been or will be other life out in the universe somewhere at some time. But if you were to ask me why I believe that and all I can say is 'it's arrogant not to believe it'....or 'it would be an awful waste of space' then my responses would be, well, non responsive. That's not even close to an argument. It would be more convincing if I just told you I saw some strange objects in the sky. At least that statement has SOME potential for being an argument and attempts to adduce a weak form of evidence (eyewitness).

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

BOINC/DC general:
I have several computers and I am in the camp that believes turning off computers is more wear and tear on them than running them 100% 24/7. It is nice to have them doing something worthwhile when they are idle.

SETI:
I also think it is pretty arogant of us to think we are alone in the universe. While there are many types of signals that SETI@home will miss, it is a survey that needs to be done until it has been proven that it is unneeded. Proving that the SETI@home survey is unneeded would take finding a signal of some (other) kind, or visiting a large percentage of the stars in about a 50 light year radius. Not finding a signal would not be proof that the survey is not needed. I can not think of an appropriate time limit because at any time in the life of the earth that first rerun of I Love Lucy might finally arrive at our local planet.

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BOINC WIKI

BOINCing since 2002/12/8