I believe it is time for some good words for all those involved in the Seti/Boinc project.
I may get flamed for this but this is what I think.

Think about it. The sheer popularity of this project has led to major problems on the roll out of the project. Each computer running Boinc/Seti is constantly in touch with the data servers to get more work units, upload workunits and get the user total scores and preferences. Multiply that by the number of computers registered on the system and you have essentially a denial of service attack on the data servers.

The people involved in setting up this project have NOT given up. They have attacked each problem as it came along and have been working on holidays and weekends to get this project online. We have NOT heard any discouraging words or complaints from these folks. They are simply doing their job and plugging along on a very difficult project at a very difficult time.

We should be encouraging them!

Way to go guy's!!

> The people involved in setting up this project have NOT given up. They have
> attacked each problem as it came along and have been working on holidays and
> weekends to get this project online. We have NOT heard any discouraging words
> or complaints from these folks. They are simply doing their job and plugging
> along on a very difficult project at a very difficult time.
>

I entirely agree with you in that setting up an infrastructure like BOINC and getting S@H to run on it with such a large user base is an ambitious task and admirable piece of work. However, the current state of the project shows it is also far from being a commercial production project. In all commercial projects I have encountered, a loss of one week's worth of data would not only have been inacceptable but would have led to consequences.

So while the guys are doing their very best in getting everything back to nominal, the project has yet again shown one of its design shortfalls. We're being told that they set up one big piece of hardware called "Snap Appliance", which is basically supposed to do anything but "snap" and lose data - which it apparently did. Fascinating, isn't it? Even more fascinating that it should take the entire database with it and the last usable backup is a week old while data were only copied over from the old box a day or so ago.

Well, enough of the ranting, guess I'm repeating some of the posts I skipped reading anyway.

> We should be encouraging them!
>
> Way to go guy's!!
>
Certainly. Yes, you guys are showing passion for your work and we should (and I do) appreciate that. But I really wish that someone in charge had the heart to admit if anything goes fundamentally wrong and eventually have the entire project start over - even if that means taking it offline for a week or two _entirely_. More than that, you probably want to make a cut by switching to a new software release and refusing to accept connections from old clients - just to make sure any new start sure is a fresh one.

Then get the hardware sorted (and I mean sorted!), do some load tests, double-check whatever software you have in place, build a good buffer of fresh WUs and give out the bait again ;-)

The project itself is great, the guys doing the work are doing a great job, apparently some of the planning went wrong and the go-live was just done significantly too early.

I'll be curious about what's next, but I shall be happy if it just proves to be stable for a change...

Jerry

Are we the new cheerleaders? If so , Ra! Ra! Ra!
Just think of all the rest we're getting. Except for the boincmares that wake me up at ungodly hrs to connect my dial up and find out if anthying is new. But we'll be able to say we were there when D.C. projects got started. That said...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.


oh yea see you @ HEMPFEST seattle wa.

I'm happy to be a cheerleader. A few sleazes toss it around like it's an insult, but I'm proud to help Seti work out its issues! Remember, participating in the project right now helps Seti work out the kinks in its systems, regardless of whether we get credit!

RA RA RA!

Bump!!

Way to go Seti Guy's

I agree. Actually I wouldnt blame them if they gave the finger once in a while when reading complaints from people running boinc...

Yes well done guys !

It's been working for more than 24 hours strait for the
first time in a month...and if it's still working tomorrow
don't touch anything or try to make any improvement. It's
better to stay in BETA, we never know what might happen.

Just a little bit of irony, just for fun, no attacks,
nothing personal. You know me by now.

GO SETI GO

Regards
Marc


-.-. --.- -.. -..- . - .-.-. -.- --... ...--

It's working? What's working? Sure it uploads and downloads units but schedulers do not respond, pending credit is still switched off, the "work" page does not represent reality; messages from the website are pitifully brief, infrequent and and out of date before they get posted. Half my team has already packed up and started saving electricity. Setiathome classic was a world class best and the University of California is, arguably, where the modern computer era was invented. So I'm not criticising people trying their best. This is simply not up to standard.

Half my team has already packed up and started saving electricity.
==========

MMMMMMMMMMMMMM Good, More Electricity for me then ... j/k ;)

I can understand their frustration, I get that way myself sometimes and Rant a little bit on the Boards, but it all passes away in a few Hr's and I just get back to crunching WU's again... :)

I don't understand why the unhappy people just don't go back to SETI@Home Classic as they said in an earlier note. I did, and am closing in on 60,000 WU again ...

When the projects get out of alpha & beta testing I will likely be right back...

After the semi-closed beta trials I needed a break and that is why I moved back while these teething troubles are ironed out.

But I do agree with the sentiment that this is an ambitious project and that the developers are making a significant product and that as annoying as the problems are, the successes are even more interesting.

And yes, I choose to be numbered in the cheerleading section ... Much better company over here ...

:)

Why does everyone refer to the current project as a beta? The client V3.20 hasn't changed or been improved for about 3 months now. V3.20 was the release version after all real beta testing was done. 3.22 was just a tweak for Predictor. If the release version is in fact still a beta, it hasn't been handled as one, nor were the people using it aware of it at the time. There most be another reason. Frankly, it should be as clear as the nose on your face.

---

Account frozen...

> Why does everyone refer to the current project as a beta? The client V3.20
> hasn't changed or been improved for about 3 months now. V3.20 was the release
> version after all real beta testing was done. 3.22 was just a tweak for
> Predictor. If the release version is in fact still a beta, it hasn't been
> handled as one, nor were the people using it aware of it at the time. There
> most be another reason. Frankly, it should be as clear as the nose on your
> face.
>

I am very confuse about that. Here's what it says on the main page

"We are currently working on getting the alpha/beta projects working again, as well as getting new workunits generated so that when we restart the public SETI@home project there will be work to send out to the clients."

I also found a page http://setiboincdata.ssl.berkeley.edu/boinc_alpha/download.php
Where you can download an ALPHA version 4.01 released 2004-08-19

Help !!!

>
> And yes, I choose to be numbered in the cheerleading section ... Much better
> company over here ...
>
> :)
>
> [url=http://homepage.mac.com/pauldbuck/index.html]
>
>

Keep me in that cheerleading section as well.

Also let me know, Paul, when you mention in your FAQ's page, where there is the BOINC Owners Manual, are you meaning the creators of...? or the propietary of...? or it refers to the user of...? The context gives the idea to the last one. Sorry for the question over here, but we are translating into Spanish all of your FAQ's as per your authorization and would like to have this straight. We had several translators ask the same question. You see in Spanish phrase construction it does not go like in English and we use more the owner type word, for the owner of a car, etc.

We are getting to 50% advance. Greetings.
Liberto- Astroseti team - in Spain

V4.02 was in Alpha and has been beta'd in cpdn. All of which has nothing to do with the so called current V3.20 release client. SAH is not a beta program, but is supposed to be in release. The problems that have been generated have nothing to do with the client but rather with SSL. I can't recall any mention that the client was still in beta form when it was release by SSL.

---

Account frozen...

Hi

Yes I am processing units now, but they do not seem to be credited. I would rather do units for another project than to waist more time on Seti units going nowhere. We have already lost a bunch when the server got out of Sync I believe.

Can someone who works at the project advise on the current situation with BOINC Seti2.

Thanks

Dingo

Liberto,

> Also let me know, Paul, when you mention in your FAQ's page, where there is
> the BOINC Owners Manual, are you meaning the creators of...? or the
> propietary of...? or it refers to the user of...? The context gives the idea
> to the last one. Sorry for the question over here, but we are translating into
> Spanish all of your FAQ's as per your authorization and would like to have
> this straight. We had several translators ask the same question. You see in
> Spanish phrase construction it does not go like in English and we use more the
> owner type word, for the owner of a car, etc.
>
> We are getting to 50% advance. Greetings.
> Liberto- Astroseti team - in Spain

I am lost as to what the question is ...

On this page, at the bottom I have the icon link to the BOINC Owner's Manual. Is this the location you are asking about?

In all cases where I use the phrase "BOINC Owner's Manual" I am using the phrase in the context of, with the identical meaning of, an "Owner's Manual" such as the one for a new automobile. So, when you buy a new automobile you get an Owner's Manual that explains all the features of the vehicle. My "Owner's Manual" is the one that you would get for the BOINC Software, just like you bought it.

The same holds true of the "BOINC Web Site Owner's Manual" (and hopefully for Predictor soon).

In the software world we more normally would call this a "User's Manual" or "User's Guide". So the possesive is because it is owned by you ...

Did that answer the question?

Don't hesitate to send me an e-mail if you have questions like this ... I check my e-mail at least once a day ... usually twice, and many days I am there all day and answer in 5 min or less. :)

> Liberto,
> In the software world we more normally would call this a "User's Manual" or
> "User's Guide". So the possesive is because it is owned by you ...
>
> Did that answer the question?
>
Yes Paul, Thanks and keep up the good work.

>
> I am very confuse about that. Here's what it says on the main page
>
> "We are currently working on getting the alpha/beta projects working again, as
> well as getting new workunits generated so that when we restart the public
> SETI@home project there will be work to send out to the clients."
>
> I also found a page
> http://setiboincdata.ssl.berkeley.edu/boinc_alpha/download.php
> Where you can download an ALPHA version 4.01 released 2004-08-19
>
> Help !!!
>
>
>
>

Alpha and Beta are TOTALLY seperate 'projects' from THIS one (BOINC/S@H). BOINC-Beta started out almost 2 years ago. It was a closed beta originally, but opened to anyone interested in it late last year (about 9 months ago). BOINC-Alpha was started some time after Beta so that the developers and certain VERY knowlegable Beta participants (25 people total) could 'fast-track' testing new client & server builds to find OBVIOUS mistakes before letting Beta try to break them.

Shortly after release of the 'live' project (THIS one), Alpha and Beta were put on hiatus as the development team worked with keeping 'live' running. The message you quote means that the development team are re-starting the projects. Alpha appears to be up right now, but I don't know for sure (cause I am not one of the Alpha testers, and therefore cannot try 'attaching' to it). Beta is still shut down, I presume pending some testing from Alpha.

BOINC v4.01 is the client that Alpha was testing when it went on hiatus. IIRC, there were some 'issues' with it. The date of Aug. 18, 2004 on that page is no doubt due to the project being set back up on that date.

BOINC/CPDN is using BOINC v4.02 with great success (v4.02 being a bugfix of the issues found in v4.01).

This project ('live S@H') has already been restarted, with work units being given out, so that part of what you are quoteing is moot.
------------
KWSN-MajorKong
KWSN Forum Admin (retired)
http://www.kwsnforum.com

BOINC Beta tester
Member of the 'Magnificent 7'

> I also found a page
> http://setiboincdata.ssl.berkeley.edu/boinc_alpha/download.php
> Where you can download an ALPHA version 4.01 released 2004-08-19
>
> Help !!!

You will be able to download the software but not to make it running as for this you need an account ID to make connection with the server.

Greetings from Belgium.