May i ask why you were searching for god?
Sure. After I finally stopped my desperate struggle to find logical reasons, and leaned back, saying with Hamlet: "And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy", I simply experienced that opening my mind to accepting that things simply can't explained yet, opened my mind also to others.

There are more things...

I'd appreciate it if someone would e-mail me and/or respond to this post. Has anyone else had the same kinds of experience? Thanks!

I guess my response is better late than never. Thanks so much for your feedback. I did what you said and now my BOINC projects are back up on the Manager. However, I still can't log into SETI.USA.

The problems connecting between the BOINC Manager (GUI) and the BOINC Daemon (controller) is something that can be looked into on this board. Help with the login at the team board is going to have to be done by one of the team mates.

BOINC uses port 31416 to communicate between the Manager and controller. BOINC.exe needs to act as a server on port 31416 and BOINCMgr.exe needs to be able to call in on this port. If you have a personal firewall, it could be blocking BOINC's access through this port.

Thanks, also, for this specific information which I shall put under my pillow each night. I really don't want to lose it.

Shari

Shari, I had a similar problem and the only thing that helped was to reinstall Boinc. I didn't delete my existing installation, just reinstalled.

Hi. Thanks for responding and I did try reinstalling BOINC just after I finished my post. It was the only thing I hadn't tried and the reinstallation was successful. If this happens again I'll know what to try first, not last.
You must be another animal lover!

Shari

I'm a member of SETI and a member of the SETI.USA team. Some of you might know me. I've been off the boards a lot in the past month and now, when I try to log in to the team board, my name and password are not being accepted and I can't get on the board. In addition, I'm having tons of trouble with the BOINC manager. I cannot connect to it. I always connect through a localhost and I've never really had a problem with it before. These things (not being able to log in to the team board) have happened to me on several different occasions and then someone checks it out and it seems to be working well after that.

I'd appreciate it if someone would e-mail me and/or respond to this post. Has anyone else had the same kinds of experience? Thanks!

Shari17

I just wish you would share your feelings instead of closing all your threads...
Most of them were very good too!

I agree with the above sentiment. I started to add to this post (I'm ashamed to say how long I put it off) several weeks ago. I was not going to make a nasty comment. Perhaps it was controversial but not mean or nasty. When it comes to anything having to do with religion it amazes me how intolerant people can still be, especially toward others who are still looking toward the stars for the biggest answers. Why? Because, we, who are looking toward the stars find there are still no answers that will satisfy everyones' system of beliefs.

This controversy is toward the beliefs people have, but not toward the people who hold these beliefs. What is the fear? I don't understand how we can be scientifically oriented and, at the same time, we can be frighteded about what we might find out!

Maybe we are all schizophrenic or, at the very least, maybe what we find out to be scientific truths just don't back up the beliefs we have held for most of our lives that were based on "faith" alone.

Shari17

Sure. But the source of most ethic rules is based on the Ten Commandments Moses taught to his people several thousands of years ago, means they are based in religion - so the circle closes again.

Granted that some ethical standards originated in religious texts, however this does not mean they cannot be borrowed and adjusted, improved as required for modern society. The ten commandments are pretty much 'common sense' today, even if people dont abide by them, this is a problem of enforcement. However 2000 years ago, they probably weren't common sense or even common which is likely why they were created in the first place.

I also mentioned that organised religion is used as a tool to suppress (and manipulate and……). Note that what individuals believe is safe enough (it’s between them and their God) and cannot be used to exert control, extract money or for example start wars. I would go so far as to say that organised religion is an outright threat to the continued existence and survival of humanity period.

"Has been used", and "can be used" rather are terms I would use, because to generalize this, means to lump all organized religions together, which is entirely wrong. "Organized religions" only are built upon the urge of people who believe the same way, to meet and teach each other. That this has led to some of the most cruel things in history can't be blamed on the organizing itself, but on the people who became the several leaders of those organizations. That it is working otherwise, you can see at least in some of those newer churches and some small religious groups. Nowadays it is said: a church is not just a building or an organization, it is meeting people believing in God the same way.

You forgot to mention, that organised religion also seeks to conquer and convert entire populations... whilst spreading disease and killing thousands. Also how about starting wars, creating social tensions and discrimination (i could go on and on and on).

If some of the most cruel periods in history were because of a particular religion, why can't the entire religion be held accountable? You are suggesting that organised religion has no "group accountability", and this is exactly where the ethics in the bible stop and where mankind needs to start.

I don't think the bible suggests "how to run a religion" (this was left to man)Inside any organised religion there are politics, power and money (just like a corporation) and this is where its gets rather ugly and dangerous. This is what has led to past atrocities and will lead to future atrocities. This is why all organised religion should be disbanded.

If you want to meet with your friends to talk about religion, go to their house, or meet in the park. Don't build a church, collect money, appoint positions of power and a hierarchy. Churches are just like a corporations, especially when people start talking about church sites as branches (just like a bank!).

Which corporation owns more property than any other on the planet??

All organizations, parties and churches, have been and still are trying to establish ethical standards and practices... unfortunately they are slightly different: for some folks too out-of-date, for some folks to progressive; it takes the free decision and intelligence of each individual to meet within the extremes.

The fact remains, that organised religion is not required to form a framework of ethics for people to abide by.

May i ask why you were searching for god?

Sure. After I finally stopped my desperate struggle to find logical reasons, and leaned back, saying with Hamlet: "And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy", I simply experienced that opening my mind to accepting that things simply can't explained yet, opened my mind also to others.

Logical reasons for what? I don't understand. What actually motivated you to 'search for god' in the first place, why was there a need??

Entire governments do it. Look at non secular governments for example.
If organised religions were dissolved, this problem would go away.

Only because even governments do it doesn't mean that it's right. History has shown that government often make even horrible mistakes. As mentioned above: it's not the thing of being organized, but who leads that organization. Even non-organized preachers can be either righteous or impostors. Would you want to dissolve your entire government if you saw they were making trouble, or would you just want the president and several persons in charge to be exchanged? That's similar in organizations - and even in churches, too. It's the people, not the organization itself, who give them the direction to go.

It depends how long the trouble was brewing. If the government had a long history (say 100 years) of problems etc without much improvement certainly.... throw them out! Obviously they are worthless and have no idea what they are doing or are corrupt beyond repair. Let someone new have a go.

Unfortunately with organised religion this is not possibly why? Because they are not accountable to anyone except god!? Has the catholic church ever had an 'ethical audit'? or an audit of any kind?

Corporations and Governments are accountable and if they keep screwing up, they go bankrupt and disappear or are dissolved (revolution?).

Try joining the team again...Just do what you did to join before and see what happens...You may have been the victim of some strange glitch.

Now the #1 USA Team, accepting membership, everyone is welcome.

Membership is growing quickly.

In an interesting development, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) enforcement officers have reached over to the South African government via Interpol, to get permission to investigate some major tissue banks there, for illegal havesting and exporting of tissue. The permission granted extends to the equivalent of executing search warrants there to examine the companies' records and banking documents.

By the way, wha t does "modded" mean?

"Modded" is shorthand for "had one's message deleted by a moderator"

Well years of treatment for something that is going to kill you is just absurd. And only reiterates what a crazy system were advocating. But the drug companies love it, talk about profiting from human-nature. I think our treatment medicine has gone slightly crazy.

You are assuming that everyone or the large majority of people think the way you do. Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't. I agree family values are important but will this always be the case?

Shari, if you wish to use quotes in your response you need to make sure the markup is correct instructions hope this helps.....

I'm sorry about that. I really don't understand much about the technicalities of using the correct form on this message board. I tried to put in a few funny pictures a few posts back and what showed up were a bunch of what looked like hyperlinks, so I just left them in.

Now it was not my intention to upset anyone with my post (however it did occur to me that it may as its a sensitive topic). /END DISCLAIMER [quote]

I was more uncomfortable than I was upset with some of the things you were saying. We're merely having a discussion here and such freedoms I'm grateful for. There are no secret police knocking on the door, if you know what I mean.

[quote]Imagine for a moment if we made concious decisions based on data about what our environment can wistand given our current technology level, this would be novel?? I am not talking about a single nation, i am talking about this gobally (but someone would have to lead the way) [/quote)

Novel it might be but not necessarily better. It might be interesting and open our eyes to many other problems this country is having that need correcting and I'm sure we are caring enough and flexible enough and intelligent enough to work it out without having to eliminate any people. I understand that you are talking about this globally, but when you are discussing solutions to such problems it can only be referring to this nation. We can't change the policies of other nations. They may or may not follow our lead.

[quote] In general, they are WISER than the younger people.

This is debatable however do young people actually listen? I mean the 'ME' generation (there was an interesting post in the polticial thread about this... but it does sum up the way todays youth (born in the 70's 80's and 90's) think.

One doesn't need to go far to understand the behavior of younger generations. They tend to do the opposite of what those in authority tell them to do. At least that's how it was for us in the 1960s. When you are talking about "today's" youth you are NOT TALKING ONLY about today's youth! :) LOL You are talking about the youth that came before the generations you've mentioned, and the picture is the same. Good God! The youth of the 60's generation epitomize the rebellious spirit of youth in general. It's funny how each generation of young people go through the same growing pains, even though THEY think THEY are so different. The "ME" generation has been around for a very long time. How our children are brought up, with the morals they are taught and the experiences they have which they can share (not just with their friends who are just as goofy at that age) with their parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers, family in general...they will turn into the next generation who care about others well-being. Most of my friends from the 60s have become wonderful human beings who care about others, especially the generations that are now coming up (which include their very own children and grandchildren).

A person can't go to school to learn wisdom. Grandparents, who fall into this group, are so very important to our youth.

I would agree, yes that wisdom comes with experience and that can be passed down with significant benefit. However there are other ways of doing this that will become available in the near future (such as knowledge management and AI). [quote/]

You are a very scary person. If a persons wisdom comes down to a system of knowledge management, then it can no longer be called "Wisdom." It will result as knowledge not wisdom and this "knowledge" may or may not result in a substitute that will be called something else. It certainly won't be wisdom. Wisdom, by it's very definition, comes down to us with love and then is passed on with love. We need our older generation for this. The "sociopath" usually (not always) comes from a place where love was shown in harmful ways. The younger generations learn socially accepted behavior and wisdom because, when all is said and done, they want to impress another human being who they care for and/or love - mostly parents and grandparents (if you take away all other pseudo-reasons). No one (I don't think) is going to care whether or not some knowledge management CEO approves or disapproves of them. Again, what holds a society together (teaches knowledge) teaches ethics and breathes wisdom down to the up and coming generations
is the generation that came before.

the statistics i gave were pertinent to the U.S. this issue is not just in the U.S. its in all 1st world countries.

It may be in the US and other 1st world countries but we have little to do with the policies of countries other than our own.

Wars also create huge post war burden for the next generation of children in terms of veteran affairs (which is often overlooked).

This is true and it isn't being overlooked but it is desperately needed and the veterans are entitled to it. In effect, they have a contract with their country to receive help and they deserve it. My family can no longer afford to live on what monies we had before and if it weren't for the Veterans Administration and their help I don't know what we would do. My adult son served in the Navy for 3 years so that he could earn the money to go to college (and he did). School/education are extremely important in my family. We value it beyond words. I'm not sure about "knowledge management" or what knowledge it would manage. Would it be as challenging as going to graduate and/or post graduate school. Speaking from my own experience, it was the challenge that was inherent in learning that made me WANT to learn.

The point i was tring to make is that we are increasing longevity and any means to keep the sick and dying alive (against all of natures attempts to kill us) which may be fine, if we balanced the score card in terms of Economics (how many peopole can country 'x' afford given its resources)
Quality of Life (for the next 'n' generations related to economics)
Environmental Factors (stress on the environment) Instead we are just going to keep on growing in a linear fashion (or worse).[quote]

Yes, I understand the point you are trying to make and most of what you say can be a very valuable tool in managing our resources. Where does the military get all that money for waging war? If we can work that out we can certainly work out a way for this country to keep its contract with Americans. First we have to get all our troops back and end our involvement (fighting overseas for other people in other countries)...a war we first got into based on untruths.

As far as it being "natures attempts to kill us" I don't think so. In our struggle for survival (survival of the fittest) we were born with the ability to understand and change our environment. This ability is within the purview of our species and extends to the human population, itself. In other words, keeping people alive past what it used to be is an acceptable thing. The sick and dying are going to die anyway, most likely. We should be looking for cures, not for treatments.

[quote]
But lets put this in perspective, my grandmother had parkinsons and passed on many years ago. Within 5-7 years of being diagnosed, she could no longer recognise her own SON and towards the end even her HUSBAND... i still remember what it was like and yeah it was an aweful experience.

Okay, I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from. You may not accept it but you are dehumanizing a generation out of anger and maybe out of a little disgust.

Are you advocating this, that the state "manage" the number of children that a couple can have and/or what sex would be thrown out (I believe they throw out the female babies in China but I could be wrong)?

Well China managed their population for a reason....

So, the answer is yes...that the state should control our reproductive choices!

Well China managed their population for a reason....I'm not advocating it, i was merely suggesting that it is already happening (its not a new concept). Perhaps in 1st world countries people will have less or no children in preference to a better quality of life. This will likely result in a negative birth rate.

Well, it may already be happening in China but it isn't happening here in America and hopefully it will never w happen because of laws. It would be good if people (decide) to be more responsible about family size. The word to consider here is "decide" not "force or legislate."

I don't know about you, but I'd rather stop the war, bring our troops home and take money from other ridiculous programs that drain our economics in the USA, and use that money to help take care of our own large aging population. These people are important and we'd be in trouble without them. Who will teach the younger generation right from wrong? How will we have a sense of continuity and of morality? Who will be around to tell the tales of what came before?

I think you are heading in the wrong direction, ethically.

Actually i am considering the burden that the younger generation has to carry, is this unethical? They may live in debt for their entire lives so that the old can live another 10-20 years. The people born today are going to end up slaves (albeit modern) but forever in debt.

This social and economic phenomena is new to mankind as we probably have the highest ever average global longevity in recorded history and without doubt the largest population.

Another possible consideration is that children are held significantly more accountable (not the state) for their parents welfare once they become retirees.

I recently saw an article where the parents (retirees) were suing the children for money so that they can survive. Note this was in Singapore.