version? gpu id? effect?

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Fizz

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Message 2011301 - Posted: 8 Sep 2019, 23:06:45 UTC

Hi all-

Per another thread, i have moved from a Win10 system to running Linux Mint. I have seti@home installed, and it's clearly been running, even though i miss the screensaver.

I notice a few differences in things between the Win and Linux versions, so i thought i'd ask about them.

Boinc on the newer system is an earlier version (7.9) than what Win10 was using (7.14). Is that simply the result of what has been made available for linux vs win? Maybe the win version has required more updates for various reasons? Is there an actual difference in processing?

Second, i notice that my gpu is no longer listed. Under Win10 i see in my stats the RX470 listed. I am still using that same card, but it's not listed anymore in my stats. Is that because of the Boinc version, or do i need to do something to update my Linux system with correct graphics drivers, or something else?

My average has gone up significantly. I'm not sure if that means i'm actually processing more, or maybe it's more efficient not having to run the graphical screensaver, or what. This assumes i understand what the average means, in this context, but it makes it look like i'm ~30x more efficient now, because my run preferences are the same as before.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

-Fizz
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Message 2011303 - Posted: 8 Sep 2019, 23:23:18 UTC

Looks like you need to install the drivers for your GPU. I don't know how you do this (I use nVidia).
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Message 2011313 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 1:07:25 UTC - in response to Message 2011301.  

As far as I am aware average in this case will mean units over time.

It may take time for the average to settle down into a realistic figure?


I am not a linux officionado so just general thoughts. (I run Linuxmint in a virtual box but not for BOINC.)

Forgive me if you have already gone through this process:

Do you see your card in console \ terminal using:

lshw -c video

OR

inxi -G


Have you looked at:

AMD site linux driver install notes.

Is this post still an issue with the RX470 Linuxmint install process.

.
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Message 2011315 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 1:11:24 UTC - in response to Message 2011303.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 1:12:08 UTC

Looks like you need to install the drivers for your GPU. I don't know how you do this (I use nVidia).

I copied this from an Einstein post from a AMD user that is very knowledgeable.

I did this from (L)Ubuntu 18.04

From the AMD drivers download page,
https://www.amd.com/en/support
I entered my GPU model (RX 570) and got to here:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/radeon-500-series/radeon-rx-500-series/radeon-rx-570

It doesn't seem to matter the exact GPU model, because the drivers work fine for my RX 460, but you do need to enter some model to get to the driver page.

From the Ubuntu x86 64-bit section you download the Ubuntu 18.04.1 driver tar.gz file (the AMDGPU graphics stack). On that web page the link for installation instructions link is:
https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
I didn't read the instructions at first (typical!) and instead just poked around in the unzipped folder and clicked on what turned out to be the installer script (can't remember the exact file name), and off it went.

After that was done, I then read the installation instructions (of course!) and on the "Using the amdgpu-install Script" page saw an option for installing OpenCL. So I did like they said and from within the AMD graphics stack directory used the terminal to:
$ ./amdgpu-install -y --opencl=legacy

When I initially (blindly) double clicked on the amdgpu installer I think I invoked the amdpgu-install script, not the amdgpu-pro-install script. If so, then I must have installed the All-Open stack, which included Mesa OpenGL and Mesa multimedia, but not OpenCL, hence my separate installation of OpenCL. From AMD's instructions, invoking the amdgpu-pro script installs the Pro Stack, which includes Pro OpenGL, Pro OpenCL, and Pro Vulcan (Pro OpenCL supports Vega 10 and later). I guess those are all AMD proprietary drivers? Several web discussions I had read seem to have a dim view of AMDGPU-Pro, so maybe using AMD's All-Open stack is the trick.

These AMD docs show the installation commands for OpenCL

https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-overview.html?highlight=OpenCL

https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-script.html?highlight=OpenCL#specifying-an-opencl-implementation


There are no BOINC Linux developers. So the last official BOINC version created by the BOINC developers is ancient and broken. Anyone using Linux has to depend on either their distro maintainers packaging up BOINC for their users or the user has to download and compile the BOINC source for their Linux OS on their own. The distro maintainers don't grab the latest and greatest BOINC version normally but stick with a tried and proven release. There are numerous improvements in later BOINC versions. So typically Linux BOINC versions are well behind the automatically generated latest Windows releases. It really depends on the distro what BOINC version it offers.
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Message 2011318 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 1:17:38 UTC

The Seti science apps use OpenCL which means anyone using a graphics card needs some flavor the OpenCL drivers. Intel drivers for iGPUS, AMD drivers for AMD cards and Nvidia drivers for Nvidia cards. Only if the client detects the correct OpenCL drivers for the installed gpus will it report finding a gpu during startup. You need to install the AMD OpenCL drivers for your RX470.

Just a FYI, don't attempt to use a RX 5700 or 5700XT for distributed processing. The OpenCL drivers are broken and the cards only produce invalid results.
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Message 2011328 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 3:22:52 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 4:22:52 UTC

Wow- lots of replies in such a short period of time.

My understanding has been that the AMDGPU drivers are open source, and now integrated into the linux kernel.


Do you see your card in console \ terminal using:
lshw -c video
OR
inxi -G


Yep, inxi -G tells me the following:

Graphics:
Device-1: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X]
driver: amdgpu v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.6 driver: amdgpu,ati
unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon,vesa resolution: 2560x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon RX 470 Graphics (POLARIS10 DRM 3.23.0
4.15.0-55-generic LLVM 8.0.0)
v: 4.5 Mesa 19.0.8

So i do have a driver installed. Looks like i'm slightly behind (19.0 rather than 19.3), but i doubt it makes a huge difference.

I have done some tests using Unigine's Heaven and Superposition benchmarks. The values i get from those are about 80% what i got from my Win10 machine. But, under Win10 those tests were using DirectX, whereas i'm using OpenGL on my new linux machine. My understanding is that OpenGL is not as fast as DX, and that 80% is about right.


https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest


From the overview there, it looks like i have the All-Open Stack.


The Seti science apps use OpenCL which means anyone using a graphics card needs some flavor the OpenCL drivers. Intel drivers for iGPUS, AMD drivers for AMD cards and Nvidia drivers for Nvidia cards. Only if the client detects the correct OpenCL drivers for the installed gpus will it report finding a gpu during startup. You need to install the AMD OpenCL drivers for your RX470.


Ah, so did my Windows version have OpenCL without me realizing it? I had not heard of OpenCL until i moved to linux. And to get that, it looks like i need the Pro Stack, have i got that right? Or is there an Open Stack that includes OpenCL?

And same for Vulkan? I did download a Mesa Vulkan package through Mint's software manager, and it is installed, but i have no idea if it's doing anything (i presume not).

Actually, i just found a package on Mint's software manager called Mesa-opencl-icd, a free implementation of the OpenCL api icd runtime. So maybe if i install that Boinc can make use of it. I also notice a Boinc-client-opencl metapackage. Hmmm.


Just a FYI, don't attempt to use a RX 5700 or 5700XT for distributed processing. The OpenCL drivers are broken and the cards only produce invalid results.


I had been considering one of these cards (once i get into gaming again), but i wouldn't be using it for distributed processing. So does that mean i'd be safe and it would work for seti@home?


You know, i like linux so far, but drivers seem much more complicated... heh.


-Fizz
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Message 2011332 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 4:16:22 UTC

The open source AMD drivers are just the basic video drivers sufficient for driving a display or playing a game. They do not support distributed computing. Only the ROCM drivers are designed specifically for compute. You need to install the legacy OpenCL drivers I posted in the Einstein instructions.
No the Mesa OpenCL drivers are insufficient for Seti and most BOINC projects. You need to get the official OpenCL drivers directly downloaded from AMD to be usable at Seti.
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Message 2011333 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 4:43:06 UTC - in response to Message 2011332.  

The open source AMD drivers are just the basic video drivers sufficient for driving a display or playing a game. They do not support distributed computing. Only the ROCM drivers are designed specifically for compute. You need to install the legacy OpenCL drivers I posted in the Einstein instructions.
No the Mesa OpenCL drivers are insufficient for Seti and most BOINC projects. You need to get the official OpenCL drivers directly downloaded from AMD to be usable at Seti.


OK, thanks. I will give that a try tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Is it safe to say that OpenCL and Vulkan are newer sets of computing / graphics apis (like DirectX or OpenGL) that just aren't well supported yet? I ask because i see them oft-mentioned, but i've yet to see them in any significant programs (other than seti@home now). For example, my 3d benchmarking programs uses OpenGL (or DirectX in windows), but there is no Vulkan option. Or am i not understanding the role of these newer packages?


-Fizz
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Message 2011344 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 7:02:52 UTC - in response to Message 2011333.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 7:06:08 UTC

OpenCL has nothing do with graphics. They are solely used for compute. OpenComputingLanguage. Vulkan is just for graphics. ROCm is for compute.
https://www.khronos.org/opencl/
https://rocm.github.io/
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Message 2011345 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 8:23:19 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 8:28:19 UTC

On standard SuSE Leap 15.0 the BOINC client is 7.8.3, on Tumbleweed development version is 7.14.2, both supplied by OpenSuSE.
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Message 2011348 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 8:56:33 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 9:11:25 UTC

AMD GPU's no matter what type almost, seems to crap out on AP at least. Some (more and more) of them also on MB as can be seen both on Beta and here on Main.
I don't know if that also is mostly on newer drivers, but this kind of crap is very common with AMD cards of newish types.

Look at this one example of many from Beta. https://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/workunit.php?wuid=11992098
My result, which I know is the right one (GTX 660M), was deemed "Completed, marked as invalid",
while the 2 AMD GPU's validated each others erroneous results. One being an RX 580, and the other an Radeon HD 8180 APU.
They both produce plenty of Invalids, by looking at their results. AMD GPU's and APU's too, has gone from solid crunchers to producing lots and lots of crap results.

Not good on Beta, but totally disastrous on Main, where it will polute the database.
They should really mass ban these kind of GPU's immediately, since they do destroy the science every day here on Main.
Their crappy results on Beta will not destroy any science, but it's strange though, that the project managers doesn't react on the poor results on Beta, and implement a ban on those GPU's here on main.
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Message 2011349 - Posted: 9 Sep 2019, 8:57:05 UTC - in response to Message 2011301.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2019, 9:32:35 UTC

Hi all-

Per another thread, i have moved from a Win10 system to running Linux Mint. I have seti@home installed, and it's clearly been running, even though i miss the screensaver.

I notice a few differences in things between the Win and Linux versions, so i thought i'd ask about them.

Boinc on the newer system is an earlier version (7.9) than what Win10 was using (7.14). Is that simply the result of what has been made available for linux vs win? Maybe the win version has required more updates for various reasons? Is there an actual difference in processing?

Second, i notice that my gpu is no longer listed. Under Win10 i see in my stats the RX470 listed. I am still using that same card, but it's not listed anymore in my stats. Is that because of the Boinc version, or do i need to do something to update my Linux system with correct graphics drivers, or something else?

My average has gone up significantly. I'm not sure if that means i'm actually processing more, or maybe it's more efficient not having to run the graphical screensaver, or what. This assumes i understand what the average means, in this context, but it makes it look like i'm ~30x more efficient now, because my run preferences are the same as before.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

-Fizz
You can use the Berkeley BOINC version in the BOINC-All-In-One folder I created for Linux nVidia users. The only difference would be you would have to create your own app_info.xml for the AMD/ATI App, and provide your own copies of the AMD/ATI and CPU App. This machine was using the BOINC-All-In-One Package, https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=8316299, note the BOINC version = 7.14.2. The machine really only had One RX570, running two tasks at a time. In Linux, with around RX470/570 and higher, it produces more work running two tasks at a time. Also, in Linux the AMD/ATI AstroPulse App works correctly with the newer drivers, unlike Windows. You do have to install the Pro Driver downloaded from AMD and specify Which version of OpenCL to install. AMD for some reason has a Different OpenCL driver for Vega 10 and above GPUs, make sure you install the version for RX470 GPUs, i.e. --opencl=legacy, https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-script.html#scenarios
OpenCL is installed using the --opencl option, as follows:
Option 	Description
--opencl=pal 	Installs PAL OpenCL.
--opencl=legacy 	Installs legacy OpenCL.
--opencl=pal,legacy 	Installs both PAL and legacy OpenCL.
Applicable examples on this page demonstrate installation of both OpenCL implementations.
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Message 2011516 - Posted: 10 Sep 2019, 21:19:51 UTC - in response to Message 2011349.  

OK, i have done the install, and it seems to have gone correctly- no obvious errors mentioned. I presume i will need to reboot the OS for the change to take place, correct? Or should i be seeing something different before that?

If for whatever reason i need to uninstall these and go back to the previous drivers, how would i do that?

-Fizz
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Message 2012219 - Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 18:18:16 UTC - in response to Message 2011516.  
Last modified: 16 Sep 2019, 18:29:55 UTC

Hi again all-

I thought i installed the drivers, but after a reboot, and waiting a few days, i'm not convinced anything has changed.

When i run the install, i get the following output:

deb [ trusted=yes ] file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local/ ./
Get:1 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ InRelease
Ign:1 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ InRelease
Get:2 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ Release [816 B]
Get:2 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ Release [816 B]
Get:3 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ Release.gpg                                                                                              
Ign:3 file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local ./ Release.gpg                                                                                              
Ign:4 http://packages.linuxmint.com tessa InRelease                                                                                              
Hit:5 http://packages.linuxmint.com tessa Release                                                                                                
Hit:7 http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-security InRelease                                                                                
Hit:8 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu bionic InRelease                                                                                       
Hit:9 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic InRelease                                                                          
Hit:10 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-updates InRelease                                                                       
Hit:11 https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/munix9:/unstable/Ubuntu_18.04 ./ InRelease                                      
Hit:12 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-backports InRelease         
Reading package lists... Done                       
apt
Usage: apt command [options]
       apt help command [options]

Commands:
...
...
...
...


with a whole pile of command descriptions.

So i am not sure it installed at all, or just extracted the packages. How can i tell what version of the driver is in use, and how can i tell if OpenCL was installed? And if it didn't install, why not? What is missing?

-Fizz
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Message 2012223 - Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 18:57:40 UTC - in response to Message 2012219.  

Likely you just downloaded the packages. You need to do the install after you have retrieved the packages. The easiest way to determine what OpenCL drivers are installed is to install the clinfo utility which prints out all vendors detected OpenCL drivers.

sudo apt install clinfo


Then just enter clinfo on the command line to see what drivers are installed.
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Message 2012245 - Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 22:45:11 UTC - in response to Message 2012223.  

Well, the documentation is wrong then, because it says (as do the other messages here) to run amdgpu-pro-install. And the flags say which versions to install. It even says, after running amdgpu-pro-install to reboot the computer. There are no other instructions than that.

So if it didn't do the install, how is the rest installed? I've got a pile of .deb files here and not sure which ones i need or not. I'm going to do one more reboot and see if that does anything.


-Fizz
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Message 2012250 - Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 23:19:51 UTC - in response to Message 2012245.  

I would look at my machine with the AMD RX570, However, it appears that suspect power supply has now died completely. Working from memory, I downloaded the driver from the link, and expanded it to the Home folder. I then opened a terminal and changed the directory to the new folder. From there, I believe I ran something like sudo ./amdgpu-pro-install --opencl=legacy and it installed the driver. After a reboot the RX570 appeared in BOINC ready to work.
Dang, now I need yet another power supply...

https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-script.html#invoking-the-amdgpu-install-script
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Message 2012251 - Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 23:21:30 UTC - in response to Message 2012245.  

A .deb file is just a package. You need to install it by running it in terminal. Double-clicking it or running the gdebi package manager.
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Message 2012256 - Posted: 17 Sep 2019, 0:51:51 UTC - in response to Message 2012250.  
Last modified: 17 Sep 2019, 0:52:57 UTC

I would look at my machine with the AMD RX570, However, it appears that suspect power supply has now died completely. Working from memory, I downloaded the driver from the link, and expanded it to the Home folder. I then opened a terminal and changed the directory to the new folder. From there, I believe I ran something like sudo ./amdgpu-pro-install --opencl=legacy and it installed the driver. After a reboot the RX570 appeared in BOINC ready to work.
https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-script.html#invoking-the-amdgpu-install-script


Well, that command is exactly what i ran (except i added the openCL pal too, since i intend to upgrade later). But i can't determine what i have. The best i have is using inxo -G, which says "4.5 Mesa 19.0.8", but i should be installing 19.3 (or so i thought).

Do i need to run this from a particular directory. I had downloaded and exported all the files into their own directory, as i assumed the install script would move things to where they need to be.

-Fizz
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Message 2012257 - Posted: 17 Sep 2019, 0:53:55 UTC - in response to Message 2012223.  


sudo apt install clinfo



All i get from running clinfo is:
Number of platforms 0

-Fizz
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