Getting the most Seti cpu production out of your Amd 7 2600/2700 cpu

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Profile Tom M
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Message 2004674 - Posted: 28 Jul 2019, 22:19:10 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jul 2019, 22:20:57 UTC

I have 2 Amd cpu's that seem like it should be possible to get more cpu task production out of them without going into the "beyond the limit" where it takes some ungodly amount of increase in the cpu voltage to get it to Over Clock that much.

Lets assume that the target MB is Biostar https://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=882 because that controls what you can do with the bios settings. I also expect to have another copy delivered here this coming week.

One of the differences with the next Biostar MB, I hope, is the Bios has NOT been upgraded to support the Ryzen 3000 series (My mistake). This may give me access to things I no longer have in the bios settings. So far, I have not been able to get any back grading of the bios to work.
It may turnout in the long run as long as I don't plan to run Ryzen 3000 cpus that another un-upgraded MB will be in the works. Especially since they are not hundreds of dollars.

Among other things my current Biostar drops is the LLC voltage sagging protection completely off the table. I can't, yet, find any information about what the older bios have/lost because of the upgrade. It might even have a LLC.

The things I know I can control are cpu voltage, cpu multiplier. And memory frequency/timings.

I am already using the single XMP profile on my Amd 2700 box to run the memory at 3200 with what appear to be the stock turbo settings.

I think that Seti doesn't get along with the CPB (cpu boost) toggle in the bios for Amd. I appear to have had trouble with it on both my Threadripper as well as my Ryzen cpus.

So far I can't see much difference between enabling/disabling "Power Now" and C6 settings in the Bios. The speed of the crunching doesn't seem to change. Only the speed of the cpu when it is not running Seti. So I have been running them on Auto.

So, should I try the Memory Calc again? In theory I am running Samsung die-B ram chips on the 2700 (the same ones I used on the ThreadRipper).

Last but not least.
How long should a Seti stability test go before I stop holding my breath? And bump up the cpu multiplier again?

Tom
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Message 2004685 - Posted: 28 Jul 2019, 23:52:27 UTC

I don't think you have much chance of gaining anything else out of that board. Just too low-end with limited design and controls. A more expensive, full-featured board would allow more aggressive clocks without needing any more voltage.

I can run my 2700X's on Auto voltage with a 40.25 multiplier and the Vcore only runs at 1.33 - 1.34V with Auto LLC. I also can run with Core Performance Boost on along with Performance Boost Level 1. It keeps the temps under 75°C. with 11 tasks in progress, more typically around 70°C.
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Message 2004691 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 0:54:03 UTC - in response to Message 2004685.  

I don't think you have much chance of gaining anything else out of that board. Just too low-end with limited design and controls. A more expensive, full-featured board would allow more aggressive clocks without needing any more voltage.

I can run my 2700X's on Auto voltage with a 40.25 multiplier and the Vcore only runs at 1.33 - 1.34V with Auto LLC. I also can run with Core Performance Boost on along with Performance Boost Level 1. It keeps the temps under 75°C. with 11 tasks in progress, more typically around 70°C.


Would you remind me of the make/model of that or those MB's. I probably should be starting on my Christmas list. Right after I wish for a 3950x ;)

The MB's look like they (if they are not the X570 stuff) are more doable.

Tom
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Message 2004721 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 6:17:58 UTC
Last modified: 29 Jul 2019, 6:19:45 UTC

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-fatal1ty-x470-gaming-k4/p/N82E16813157836?Item=N82E16813157836

This AM4 MB appears to have 6 slots. Can anyone confirm it will run 9 gpus? If yes, it might be a great replacement for my Biostar MB.

Tom
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Message 2004722 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 7:27:13 UTC

I run ASUS Crosshair VII Hero motherboards. The Asrock should be solid, though for some reason is hardly ever mentioned as used in the forum. I don't know whether that means very little people use it or hardly anyone ever has any issues to bitch about in the forums. Most of the forum traffic is ASUS, Gigabyte Aorus or MSI.

I think the Asrock would be on my short list. No experience with the X470 Asrock motherboards but I do have a Asrock X399 Fatality Pro Gaming motherboard for my Threadripper which I am VERY HAPPY with. My only sample but it has been a great experience.
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Message 2004753 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 13:45:35 UTC - in response to Message 2004722.  

I run ASUS Crosshair VII Hero motherboards. The Asrock should be solid, though for some reason is hardly ever mentioned as used in the forum. I don't know whether that means very little people use it or hardly anyone ever has any issues to bitch about in the forums. Most of the forum traffic is ASUS, Gigabyte Aorus or MSI.

I think the Asrock would be on my short list. No experience with the X470 Asrock motherboards but I do have a Asrock X399 Fatality Pro Gaming motherboard for my Threadripper which I am VERY HAPPY with. My only sample but it has been a great experience.


I just looked at the ASUS Crosshair VII Hero. It has 5 gpu slots. It makes me wonder if it will run the # gpus I really want to hang off it :(

Tom
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Message 2004767 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 15:13:08 UTC - in response to Message 2004753.  

You should really stop measuring a motherboard's value to SETI based on how many PCIe slots it has. If you're talking about a motherboard that will be better for CPU clocking, VRMs and BIOS features are much much much more important.

Also keep in mind that many of the PCIe slots on the x470/x370 boards run at only PCIe gen 2 when they are being fed by the chipset. In the case of the crosshair hero 7, only the two main GPU slots are gen3. The rest are gen2, and some of them share resources with the m.2 or SATA ports and run at different speeds/lanes depending on what you might have populated.

Every time someone posts a motherboard, your first response is always how many slots it has, and that is a bad habit. You should take the time to download and read the manual and understand the specs before coming to any conclusions of how good or bad it might be.
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Message 2004791 - Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 18:19:19 UTC - in response to Message 2004767.  

You should really stop measuring a motherboard's value to SETI based on how many PCIe slots it has. If you're talking about a motherboard that will be better for CPU clocking, VRMs and BIOS features are much much much more important.


I guess "I want my cake and eat it too". I want a motherboard that will support 9 gpus/pcie slot equivalents AND run my 2700 at very high cpu multipliers.

And it does revolve around "sunk" costs. I already have enough mid-range video cards to outfit up to 2 9 video card rigs. But I need the rig to crunch cpu tasks ASAP while also supporting the gpus.

I am pretty much convinced that a TB350-BTC motherboard running the Ryzen 3000 bios upgrade will not support much more than 3.7Ghz. I was poking around again last night and again found no reliable sweet spot above 3.7~ certainly not 3.8 :( even with the cpu voltage offset pushing the baseline cpu voltage to around 1.31 volts.

The last ditch hope I can think of is maybe the new copy of TB350-BTC mb coming in (open box) which should not have an upgraded bios, might actually OC better. The price was 50% off so its not going to hurt as much if I am wrong.

Otherwise Its shopping for a well recommended X470 or low cost X570 MB is likely to be my next step.
I don't have powerful enough gpus to run say 5 or even 6 gpus and be able to maintain my RAC production on the 2700-based machine.

So if I can't find an X470~ MB that can support 9 gpus then I am stuck.... with the Biostar MB's.

Tom
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"Over the hill? WHAT Hill? I don't REMEMBER any hill...." (from a bumper sticker I bought at a truck stop).
"If its Tourist Season why can't we shoot them?" (another bumper sticker)
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Message 2005005 - Posted: 31 Jul 2019, 11:51:27 UTC

I found an article that sounds like it might be an excellent "short list" for what I am looking for. It includes the Crosshair so it is probably credible.

The 9 best X470 motherboards for AMD’s new next-gen Ryzen CPUs


https://www.newegg.com/insider/9-best-x470-motherboards-amd-next-gen-ryzen-cpu/?nm_mc=KNC-GoogleKWLess&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleKWLess-_-DSA-_-CategoryPages-_-NA&gclid=CjwKCAjw1f_pBRAEEiwApp0JKHXMUGIR3-F4ccExLCbUzqz_WagucoYLhb07XZZXc67qZVSdqf7c1BoC_B4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am going to be re-reading it to find possible upgrade candidates.

Tom
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Message 2005208 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 17:52:59 UTC

@Keith,
While I am pondering the budget and timeline for a Crosshair MB could you tell me what cpu cooler you are using? I am almost certain it is NOT the stock wraith cooler.

I have run into recommendations for cpu Air coolers that approach $200 although I may have found one for under $100.

Tom
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Message 2005213 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 18:23:10 UTC - in response to Message 2005208.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2019, 18:24:53 UTC

I actually am using a stock Wraith cooler on one of my temp contest machines. Normally I run an AIO cooler for the cpu or custom loop cooling. My preferred AIO cooler is the Corsair H110i because it is NOT based on the poor Asetek hardware. It is based on the CooliT hardware and every one of them has been rock solid with not a single problem. It is a 280mm radiator and I usually upgrade the fans to either the Corsair ML-140 or the Noctua NF-A14 IPPC 2000 fans. I also have one EVGA CLC 280 AIO that has worked OK so far but it is based on Asetek hardware. It was not capable of handling the 3900X though so now sits unused. But it has run OK without any issues so far other than being unable to control the temps of the overclocked 3900X.

My rule of thumb on Asetek based AIO's for either cpu or gpus is that they fail within 18 months. I've gone through 6 of them so far. 3 cpu and 3 gpu is the current count. They are the cheapest design and parts possible so their price is low. You get what you pay for.

If you don't want to bother with a AIO and possible future failure, get a Noctua NH-D14 or D15. They cool within a couple of degrees of an AIO and they can't fail. Cost is actually cheaper than an AIO. They are big however so you need lots of clearance in the case and can have possible interference issues with RAM and first PCIe slot.

FYI, the Wraith cooler is on a 1800X and still runs it at 4.0Ghz with temps only in the mid-70's°C.

Amazon NH-D15 $90
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D15-heatpipe-NF-A15-140mm/dp/B00L7UZMAK
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Message 2005217 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 18:38:24 UTC - in response to Message 2005213.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2019, 18:42:40 UTC


FYI, the Wraith cooler is on a 1800X and still runs it at 4.0Ghz with temps only in the mid-70's°C.

Amazon NH-D15 $90
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D15-heatpipe-NF-A15-140mm/dp/B00L7UZMAK


Does this Noctua have the clearance to work with the Crosshair MB's you are having great luck with?

I am asking for future proofing. I suspect part of my cpu stablity at very high multipliers might be getting too hot which makes the top air cpu cooler something to get first.

I know from previous discussion that I haven't been able to get my Psensor to report accurate temps but the numbers it displays still make me a bit "hot" so I am thinking OC = hotter so "more cool"er.

Tom
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"Over the hill? WHAT Hill? I don't REMEMBER any hill...." (from a bumper sticker I bought at a truck stop).
"If its Tourist Season why can't we shoot them?" (another bumper sticker)
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Message 2005225 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 19:58:10 UTC - in response to Message 2005217.  


FYI, the Wraith cooler is on a 1800X and still runs it at 4.0Ghz with temps only in the mid-70's°C.

Amazon NH-D15 $90
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D15-heatpipe-NF-A15-140mm/dp/B00L7UZMAK


Does this Noctua have the clearance to work with the Crosshair MB's you are having great luck with?

I am asking for future proofing. I suspect part of my cpu stablity at very high multipliers might be getting too hot which makes the top air cpu cooler something to get first.

I know from previous discussion that I haven't been able to get my Psensor to report accurate temps but the numbers it displays still make me a bit "hot" so I am thinking OC = hotter so "more cool"er.

Tom

Yes, the newer models have a cutout on the front fin stack to clear not too tall memory heat spreaders. The fin stack is now biased asymmetrically towards the top of the motherboard to better clear the 1st PCIe slot.

So what does the stock k10temp driver show for Tdie and Tctrl? That driver takes your Psensor out of the equation. The output of the k10temp driver is akin to Intel coretemp driver.

You have installed the lm-sensors package correct? Yes? That is the first step in temperature monitoring.

Fits fine on my Crosshair VII Hero motherboards.
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Message 2005233 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 20:31:50 UTC

I can also suggest the D15.
Its keeping my 1800X at 52°C at full speed 24/7 :)
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Message 2005238 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 21:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 2005225.  


Yes, the newer models have a cutout on the front fin stack to clear not too tall memory heat spreaders. The fin stack is now biased asymmetrically towards the top of the motherboard to better clear the 1st PCIe slot.

So what does the stock k10temp driver show for Tdie and Tctrl? That driver takes your Psensor out of the equation. The output of the k10temp driver is akin to Intel coretemp driver.

You have installed the lm-sensors package correct? Yes? That is the first step in temperature monitoring.

Fits fine on my Crosshair VII Hero motherboards.


Because it has been a while I will note that you have already spent a significant amount of time trying to get past the "strange" MB hardware I have to get real temperatures. So lets drop any further attempts. Sigh. You helped me fight my Threadripper MB, this Biostar MB, probably others and once I have a Crosshair and can't get to work you can take a shot at that one. :)

I can see however that it has gone from X baseline to 50 degrees C more which is a rather large increase. So I am hopeful once I get the Crosshair the #'s will no longer be as much of an pain to figure out.

Thank you for confirming that I can buy an Noctua (sp?) and probably not have a clearance issue. Still have to confirm I have enough clearance on the rack but I probably do.

Its off to work.

Tom
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Message 2005241 - Posted: 1 Aug 2019, 21:13:18 UTC

Well if you get the C7H and any BIOS version from 1001 to the latest, it has a WMI interface to export all the sensor data. There is a driver called asus-wmi-sensor that grabs that data for display. It displays the same exact data that you would see in Windows. This is the sensor data from this C7H daily driver.

keith@Serenity:~$ sensors -u
asuswmisensors-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
CPU Core Voltage:
in0_input: 1.079
CPU SOC Voltage:
in1_input: 1.079
DRAM Voltage:
in2_input: 1.406
VDDP Voltage:
in3_input: 0.545
1.8V PLL Voltage:
in4_input: 1.831
+12V Voltage:
in5_input: 11.990
+5V Voltage:
in6_input: 4.905
3VSB Voltage:
in7_input: 3.357
VBAT Voltage:
in8_input: 3.292
AVCC3 Voltage:
in9_input: 3.357
SB 1.05V Voltage:
in10_input: 1.109
CPU Core Voltage:
in11_input: 1.087
CPU SOC Voltage:
in12_input: 1.093
DRAM Voltage:
in13_input: 1.440
CPU Fan:
fan1_input: 1967.000
Chassis Fan 1:
fan2_input: 1190.000
Chassis Fan 2:
fan3_input: 689.000
Chassis Fan 3:
fan4_input: 995.000
HAMP Fan:
fan5_input: 0.000
Water Pump:
fan6_input: 0.000
CPU OPT:
fan7_input: 5808.000
Water Flow:
fan8_input: 0.000
AIO Pump:
fan9_input: 1832.000
CPU Temperature:
temp1_input: 66.000
CPU Socket Temperature:
temp2_input: 43.000
Motherboard Temperature:
temp3_input: 40.000
Chipset Temperature:
temp4_input: 54.000
Tsensor 1 Temperature:
temp5_input: 36.000
CPU VRM Temperature:
temp6_input: 49.000
Water In:
temp7_input: 216.000
Water Out:
temp8_input: 216.000
CPU VRM Output Current:
curr1_input: 57.000

asus-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
cpu_fan:
fan1_input: 0.000

keith@Serenity:~$
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Message 2005341 - Posted: 2 Aug 2019, 14:39:05 UTC

Well, it LOOKS like I have the cashflow so I just ordered the CH7H MB even though it turned out I found a 6 slot version of the CH6MB but it was X370. I also ordered 6 more of my favorite UGreen riser card cables (Thank you Ian).

I may still have to buy a cpu cooler upgrade but until I have good numbers on the cpu temp I won't really know.

I picked free shipping (Amazon Smile) so it will be a bit before things arrive. I hope to have the thing up and stable at some # of gpus before the WOW event starts.

If I have calculated right, if I can get two 1 to 4 pcie expanders to install I have a chance of making it back up to 9 gpus. If only one installs I go down to 8 gpus or less.

Come on shipping/delivery :)
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Message 2006273 - Posted: 8 Aug 2019, 4:14:48 UTC - in response to Message 2005241.  

Well if you get the C7H and any BIOS version from 1001 to the latest, it has a WMI interface to export all the sensor data. There is a driver called asus-wmi-sensor that grabs that data for display. It displays the same exact data that you would see in Windows. This is the sensor data from this C7H daily driver.

keith@Serenity:~$ sensors -u
asuswmisensors-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
CPU Core Voltage:
in0_input: 1.079
-edit- to delete long list for reply

asus-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
cpu_fan:
fan1_input: 0.000

keith@Serenity:~$



I get

tom@EJS-GIFT:~$ sensors -u
k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:
temp1_input: 95.750
temp1_max: 70.000

asus-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
cpu_fan:
fan1_input: 0.000

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Message 2006320 - Posted: 8 Aug 2019, 13:15:54 UTC

Having run into a gpu limit 6 on the Crosshair 7 Hero (so far). I have some M.2 riser card adapters on the way.

I thought I would try OCing the cpu which was the original reason for getting the MB.

I am now running 38.5Ghz, auto cpu voltage, LLC 2.

I have CPB enabled but have not yet been able to find the PBL setting.

I am currently guessing that the reason it is still locking up at 38.75 Ghz and above is the cpu is getting too hot.

Tom
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Message 2006330 - Posted: 8 Aug 2019, 14:33:23 UTC - in response to Message 2006320.  


I have CPB enabled but have not yet been able to find the PBL setting.

I am currently guessing that the reason it is still locking up at 38.75 Ghz and above is the cpu is getting too hot.

Tom


Just finally remembered that the PBL is one of the differences between a 2700x and a 2700 like I am running.

With the LLC@4 I have run 39.25GHz so have just bumped it up to 39.50GHz and so far it hasn't locked up.

So while it maybe be getting too hot and locking up. It could be the LLC setting.

Tom
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