Intel 4790k to AMD 3900x

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Message 2002994 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 13:25:15 UTC

I upgraded my computer last night, replacing the Intel 4790k with a new AMD 3900x with an ASUS Prime x470-Pro motherboard. Had some minor issues updating the BIOS, and the memory slots seem picky.

Otherwise, I'm booting into Windows 10 now and have the drivers all updated.

Unfortunately, after starting SETI, after anywhere from 30 seconds, to a couple of minute or so... 'click' and the system shuts down.

Not entirely sure what is going on, but Seti is a great stress test.

I am not seeing anything in the 'eventvwr' logs that points to a culprit.

I don't know if the move from Intel to AMD means I have to reset anything in SETI or re-run the lunatics optimizer. (I know Intel and AMD have different instruction sets, but not sure if that would cause this issue)

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
-Al
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Message 2003001 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 14:08:02 UTC - in response to Message 2002994.  

I downloaded the 'Ryzen Master' utility, to monitor CPU temps, and I am fairly certain that the CPU is overheating, causing the shutdown.

I installed using the stock 'Wraith' cooler, rather than installing the CM Hyper 212 I was using on my 4790k, and I saw temperatures spike to 85C before it powered down. Looks like the 3900x has a95 C is a limit, so guessing the reporting of temp is lagging.
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Message 2003005 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 15:01:19 UTC

I'm assuming you have checked mounting, thermal paste, etc.

For my ASRock motherboard I had to change a setting in bios for the fans to monitor tctrl, not the CPU or mobo. If you haven't checked, see if the cpu fan is monitoring the correct sensor in bios.
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Message 2003013 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 15:25:33 UTC - in response to Message 2003005.  

Turns out I can't install the Hyper Evo 212 - its old enough it doesn't support AM4 mounting.

I am fairly certain that I have the cooler installed properly and reapplied the thermal paste.

CPU seems to idle from 44-54C, but as soon as I start SETI@home is jumps quickly to 80C, and takes about a minute to cool off after I hit suspend.
This is with 6 CPU Tasks (I had 12 CPU tasks before rerunning Lunatics.)

CPU is supposed to be 3.8GHz with boost to 4.6GHz, but while monitoring, I am seeing the speeds on the cores up around 4.3GHz, even though the temp is rising.

This is why I usually wait when new tech gets released - let others work out the bugs ;-) but I really wanted the 3900x for SETI !
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Message 2003015 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 15:31:00 UTC - in response to Message 2003005.  

I'm assuming you have checked mounting, thermal paste, etc.

For my ASRock motherboard I had to change a setting in bios for the fans to monitor tctrl, not the CPU or mobo. If you haven't checked, see if the cpu fan is monitoring the correct sensor in bios.

+1
Definitely a temp issue. I would just disable the fan header control that is being used to power the Wraith cooler so that it gets the full +12V all the time and the fan runs at 100%. Seti can use the AVX and FMA3 math functions of the cpu and that works the cpu the most and produces the most heat. AMD does not de-clock the cpu clock speeds when it runs an AVX application like Intel does on its processors, so the power is going to be higher and therefore the generated heat.
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Message 2003019 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 15:39:46 UTC - in response to Message 2003013.  

Turns out I can't install the Hyper Evo 212 - its old enough it doesn't support AM4 mounting.

I am fairly certain that I have the cooler installed properly and reapplied the thermal paste.

CPU seems to idle from 44-54C, but as soon as I start SETI@home is jumps quickly to 80C, and takes about a minute to cool off after I hit suspend.
This is with 6 CPU Tasks (I had 12 CPU tasks before rerunning Lunatics.)

CPU is supposed to be 3.8GHz with boost to 4.6GHz, but while monitoring, I am seeing the speeds on the cores up around 4.3GHz, even though the temp is rising.

This is why I usually wait when new tech gets released - let others work out the bugs ;-) but I really wanted the 3900x for SETI !

Everything sounds normal. The Wraith cooler is not really suited for 24/7 compute loads unless you have very good case ventilation to assist. You can try and manually underclock the cpu to around 4Ghz all cores and see if that drops the temp low enough to prevent thermal shutdown. You should either purchase a air cooler with the AM4 mounting hardware or think about a 240mm AIO cooler. There are plenty of options. The thermal compute load that needs to be dissipated is 142W at stock.

I have the Wraith Prism cooler on one of my contest machines that I just upgraded to a 2700X that is running at 3850Mhz. It ran overnight on both cpu and gpu tasks when I was testing it out with no issues.
The 2700X won't do 4Ghz+ without water cooling with an AIO. Same for the 3900X I would think even with the process shrink.
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Message 2003021 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 15:43:07 UTC

Almost no one is achieving the rated highest boost speeds. I think AMD did us a disservice publishing a boost clock that is never realistically achieved other than for an instant when a core is completely unloaded. Most people are finding that the all core boost speeds are around 4050- 4150Mhz with an occasional single core spiking to 4400Mhz. Nowhere near 4600Mhz.
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Message 2003026 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 16:23:38 UTC

So I found that the ASUS Motherboard (Prime x470-Pro) is setting the CPU voltage to 1.45 and it should be 1.25, so I manually set it to 1.25.
Temperatures looked much cooler - seems to be around 68C with SETI running for several minutes. But it still shutdown, just took longer. (I didnt' see Ryzen Master go above 70C)

I have an older Antec 900 case which has a big vent fan at the top, 2 front fans and one back side.
I was looking at buying a new cooler. The Hyper 212 Evo always worked well for this 4790k and the AMD CPU it replaced (Phenom II X6) - so the prices of the Noctura or AIO coolers made me hesitant. I don't want to spend $50-100 more for just a few degrees of cooling - but I do want to run these 8-10 of these cores (and 16-20 threads) for Seti!

I would be fine with locking the 3900x to 4GHz or even 3.8, if it ran all cores, just not sure how to do that with the new motherboard BIOS (if its possible)
Interesting to hear about the AVX instruction and no declocking - its been awhile since I've been on AMD.
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Message 2003032 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 17:30:42 UTC - in response to Message 2003026.  

Hardware Unboxed did a video about cooling performance of the 3900X. It seems to run around 86 C with a 1 hour Blender burn-in, so it doesn't surprise me that you're having thermal issues. I think an upgraded cooler is definitely in order. That's a bummer. I'm guessing if you just use the 3900X for gaming, which typically is not using the CPU cores to the game's advantage, you're going to be fine. Boinc and Seti, not so much.
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Message 2003036 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 17:54:56 UTC

Would a Corsair H60 have enough cooling capacity compared to the Wraith?
That is the only thing available within 60 miles of me, otherwise I've got to go mail order.
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Message 2003037 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 18:07:09 UTC - in response to Message 2003036.  

Would a Corsair H60 have enough cooling capacity compared to the Wraith?
That is the only thing available within 60 miles of me, otherwise I've got to go mail order.
I'm not familiar with AIOs, but I would be concerned with the size of the radiator that you don't have enough water volume to cool the CPU properly. Also double check the mounting. I found a page on Corsair's website that doesn't list it as AM4 compatible, but Newegg does.
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Message 2003039 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 18:20:45 UTC - in response to Message 2003037.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2019, 18:31:24 UTC

Just found a review, the H60 and Hyper 212 are the same cooling capacity and noise...

Decided to put an order in for the CM MA410P which seems to be the replacement for the Hyper 212 Evo. Has a 150W capacity, so hopefully will work better than the wraith.

So no SETI until at least Friday now.
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Message 2003043 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 18:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 2003039.  

You could just set the amount of CPU cores and/or CPU time down a significant amount, at least to get some work done if you want.
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Message 2003046 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 18:52:15 UTC - in response to Message 2003043.  

I tried setting the computing preferences to: 'at most' 50 % of CPU and 50% of CPU time, but that didn't seem to make much of a difference, other than it ran for a few minutes before powering down.

I am hoping I don't have another problem, with either the CPU or motherboard. Both are new, so could also be part of the issue.
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Message 2003048 - Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 18:59:49 UTC

I have been reading very similar reports that the Auto voltages are unnecessarily high for some reason. The Ryzen old-timers are using negative offsets to get the voltages down and the temps under control.

You can always disable Auto overclocking and set a manual all-core multiplier. That is what I have been doing with my Ryzens. That also prevents the cpu voltage from being overcooked as it drops the cpu voltage down to the base clock VID voltage from the lookup tables. I run 4.025Ghz at 1.33-1.34V on my 2700X cpus.

The improved math functions in Zen 2 put it on the same level as the math performance of Intel, actually a bit better now. The floating point register is now a full 256bit width so can process an AVX instruction in one clock cycle just like Intel. But the AMD processors don't penalize AVX instructions by turning down the clocks like the Intel processors do.

RueiKe posted in the Ryzen and Threadripper thread his test results on his 3700X. Notice the older AVX apps are now faster than the SSExx apps now.

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=83824&postid=2002321

When I get my 3900X in and installed, I will be running the benchmarks also and expect to shift from the SSE41 app to the AVX r3345 or r3712 application for the cpu which I bet will be faster. Might be some differences compared to the 3700X tests since I will have two CCD in my cpu. One golden sample and one turd, as someone posted about the 3900X cpus. Will be interesting to see how the 3950X benches in September when it is released with two golden sample CCD's in the cpu.
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Message 2003189 - Posted: 18 Jul 2019, 23:15:44 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2019, 0:15:06 UTC

So I updated Windows 10 to 1903 this morning, and after work, I turned SETI back on.
Seems like the Windows update broke my Nvidia drivers again, as they were missing in BOINC.

The interesting thing is the temperatures and CPU load/speeds seemed much better.
So now I'm wondering if its a combination of the GPUs causing issues as well.

More experimentation to do, and the replacement cooler comes tomorrow night.

EDIT: I ran just CPU tasks for about an hour, and the system did not power down.
I reinstalled the NVidia drivers to get opencl reinstalled again, and have been running for about 10 minutes without a power down.

The Ryzen Master program shows the temperature jumping between 65 and 72 C - mostly around 67-68C (Fan kicks up as it gets to 70 and it cools off quickly.) The CPU voltage is bouncing between 1.375 and 1.443.

I would say the update to Windows 1903 may have improved things quite a bit for the 3900x.
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Message 2003195 - Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 0:19:30 UTC - in response to Message 2003189.  

Just found the following post and picture, which explains why Win10 1903 is working so much better for me: 20x faster clock speed switching.
Looks like that is keeping things within its TDP envelope.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/bz6egc/windows_1903_fixed_the_scheduler_for_ryzen/


Currently running:
    6 CPU tasks
    2 RTX2070 tasks
    2 GTX1070 tasks
    2 AMD R280x tasks



With the new cooler, I should be able to add several more CPU tasks.


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Message 2003210 - Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 2:45:56 UTC

I'll put in my 3900X on this daily driver tomorrow. It showed up a week earlier than expected. But I will be running Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS with the 5.0.0.21 kernel and not Windows. At least I will be able to have an idea of what the BIOS looks like and might be better able to assist you. Sounds like you are doing better than when you first started.
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Message 2003339 - Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 23:52:41 UTC - in response to Message 2003210.  

The system has run stable since my post last night. I even managed to push it up to 16 concurrent, so 10 CPU tasks, and the 6 GPU tasks.
According to Ryzen Master, the EDC was up around 99%, so I dropped it back to 14 concurrent tasks.

The CPU cooler arrived in the mail today, and I plan on installing it tomorrow to see if it pulls the temperatures down, or at least is a little quieter.

Overall, I am feeling much better now.

I am interested in hearing how your 3900x does under Ubuntu!
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Message 2003359 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 1:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 2003339.  

The system has run stable since my post last night. I even managed to push it up to 16 concurrent, so 10 CPU tasks, and the 6 GPU tasks.
According to Ryzen Master, the EDC was up around 99%, so I dropped it back to 14 concurrent tasks.

The CPU cooler arrived in the mail today, and I plan on installing it tomorrow to see if it pulls the temperatures down, or at least is a little quieter.

Overall, I am feeling much better now.

I am interested in hearing how your 3900x does under Ubuntu!

Been trying to tune it all day. It refuses to take the preferred setting from Calculator and just locks up. So I am running with some settings from the 3466 Fast timings and most on Auto. I am up to 43X multiplier all-core at 1.29V. Been trying to find the optimum all-core clocks and memory clocks. I run Linux so don't have any of the Windows tools. Been running MLC, Geekbench4 and Prime95 to find stability. I flirted with 3533 and 3600 on the memory but could not get rid of the memory errors. My memory kit is just the standard G.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GTZ. I tried up to 1.45V on them but increasing the volts didn't make any difference. I'm sure it has to do with all the secondary and tertiary timings. But as I said, one or more of the parameters from the Calculator just blows up the boot and locks the machine up.

This is my last Geekbench4 run and the configuration I am about to turn the machine loose on Seti.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13964547

I'm supposed to run some cpu tasks though BenchMT still though to see whether the AVX apps are faster than the SSE41 app.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Intel 4790k to AMD 3900x


 
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