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Message 2003334 - Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 23:34:54 UTC - in response to Message 2003324.  

I heard that ASUS pulled it because they got a stern "talking to" from AMD about it. from what I hear, PCIe wont be coming to the older boards.

That was the "old news" AMD deferred to the board vendors after all. Left it up to them whether to enable PCI 4.0 on the first slot. It was available on the Crosshair VII Hero on a beta BIOS earlier in the week. Supposed to come back once they figure it out. Will make a difference on the data storage subsystem. Not any difference on a graphics card. A gpu still doesn't get close to exceeding PCI 3.0 in bandwidth needs.
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Message 2003344 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 0:29:09 UTC - in response to Message 2003334.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2019, 0:30:46 UTC

not old news according to what I'm seeing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/buydi6/amds_robert_hallock_no_pcie_40_support_on_300_and/epn2c83/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccg2t2/asus_receives_warning_letter_from_amd_due_to/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14639/no-amd-still-isnt-enabling-pcie-4-on-300400-series-boards

So with AMD intending to permanently disable the feature – and prevent any workarounds – AMD’s goals haven’t wavered. At best, the few boards that have beta BIOSes with the feature will lose them in the future, unless users opted to stick with an unsupported (and almost certainly buggy) BIOS.


AMD_Robert
Technical Marketing6 points ·
7 days ago

No salt required. We still plan to disable this in an upcoming AGESA release, for the same reasons cited at Computex.

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Message 2003348 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 0:55:25 UTC - in response to Message 2003344.  

not old news according to what I'm seeing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/buydi6/amds_robert_hallock_no_pcie_40_support_on_300_and/epn2c83/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccg2t2/asus_receives_warning_letter_from_amd_due_to/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14639/no-amd-still-isnt-enabling-pcie-4-on-300400-series-boards

So with AMD intending to permanently disable the feature – and prevent any workarounds – AMD’s goals haven’t wavered. At best, the few boards that have beta BIOSes with the feature will lose them in the future, unless users opted to stick with an unsupported (and almost certainly buggy) BIOS.


AMD_Robert
Technical Marketing6 points ·
7 days ago

No salt required. We still plan to disable this in an upcoming AGESA release, for the same reasons cited at Computex.

My information is only 1 day old. From the OCN C7H and C8H threads.
Elmor has done some testing. He used to work for ASUS. You can turn on PCI Gen. 4 speeds in the BIOS for the M.2 slots.

Wait, how are you testing PCIe 4.0 with a 2700X?
Mainly the same as Elmor did in the first few posts. 3dmark PCIE test and CPU-z are the only ways I know of at the moment.


I thought it was quite clear that @elmor was just trying to give a general idea of what's going on with PCIE 4 that most people would understand, without going into all the tech detail most don't want to know.

PCIE 4 devices have been tested in the CH7. NVMe works well and GPU tests indicate much higher bandwidth available, though no cards can make use of it currently. More testing is required but early results are promising.


All these quotes from this forum thread page
https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1728878-ryzen-3000-memory-fabric-x370-x470-x570-17.html
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Message 2003354 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 1:02:33 UTC - in response to Message 2003348.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2019, 1:04:01 UTC

and is that with the same Beta BIOS that was pulled? the article from Anandtech covers that. nothing stopping people from holding onto an old BIOS to keep the feature.

AMD is saying they will block the feature in future AGESA releases. Sounds to me like, unless you hold onto that old BIOS, the feature will go away, and wont come back. Whether or not it *works* on some boards seems irrelevant if AMD says no and pulls the plug on it.
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Message 2003355 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 1:05:23 UTC - in response to Message 2003354.  

and is that with the same Beta BIOS that was pulled? the article from Anandtech covers that. nothing stopping people from holding onto an old BIOS to keep the feature.

AMD is saying they will block the feature in future AGESA releases. Sounds to me like, unless you hold onto that old BIOS, the feature will go away, and wont come back. Whether or not it *works* on some boards seems irrelevant if AMD says no and pulls the plug on it.

It wasn't pulled for the PCI Gen. 4 option. It was pulled for another more serious bug with voltages on PBO.
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Message 2003358 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 1:10:00 UTC - in response to Message 2003355.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2019, 1:14:02 UTC

i wasn't saying it was pulled for PCIe 4 (in my last post), just that it was pulled. First time i mentioned it being pulled I was under the impression that ASUS had pulled it due to AMD telling them to (which is what I heard via TechLinked). But my position that the feature is ultimately being killed off by AMD still holds, for now.

Maybe ASUS can get another BIOS out before AMD pushes another AGESA update, but once they do, it sounds like the feature is done for. Just my impression.
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Message 2003367 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 1:52:26 UTC
Last modified: 20 Jul 2019, 1:52:46 UTC

OK, I'll grant you your impression. All the ASUS OCN inhabitants are of the impression PCI Gen 4 will return to new and current BIOS' no matter what AMD does with the AGESA.

When that changes in the forums I will post the outcome.
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Message 2003374 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 2:18:59 UTC

So can confirm what Rick already showed on his 3700X, the old r3345 AVX app is faster than the SSE41 app. Will be switching to that app for the cpu tasks on Ryzen 3900X. The AVX app is 3 minutes faster than the SSE41 app.

┌────┬────┬───┬────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┬────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┐
│Job#│Slot│xPU│app_name │ start │ finish │tot_time │ state │
│ │ │ │app_args │wu_name │
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│0 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.04r3306_sse41_linux64 │01:26:10│01:51:41│0:25:31.470│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │blc45_2bit_guppi_58642_03113_PSR_B1133│
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│1 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.05r3345_avx_linux64 │01:26:10│01:48:41│0:22:31.281│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │blc45_2bit_guppi_58642_03113_PSR_B1133│
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│2 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.04r3306_sse41_linux64 │01:26:10│01:49:14│0:23:04.313│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │blc31_2bit_guppi_58642_04362_HIP55210_│
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│3 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.05r3345_avx_linux64 │01:26:10│01:46:20│0:20:10.144│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │blc31_2bit_guppi_58642_04362_HIP55210_│
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│4 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.04r3306_sse41_linux64 │01:26:10│02:04:48│0:38:38.228│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │03dc14aa.7253.7429.7.34.218.wu │
├────┼────┼───┼────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┼────────┬────────┬───────────┬────────┤
│5 │ NA │CPU│MBv8_8.05r3345_avx_linux64 │01:26:10│02:01:15│0:35:05.021│COMPLETE│
│ │ │ │--nographics │03dc14aa.7253.7429.7.34.218.wu │
└────┴────┴───┴────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┴──────────────────────────────────────┘
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Message 2003467 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 20:32:37 UTC - in response to Message 2003374.  

Keith,

What temperatures are you measuring using the AVX app on your 3900x? What cooler do you use on that beast? How many CPU tasks are you running in parallel?

I am planning to swap my 1800x to a 3900x but I see temperatures are problematic...
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Message 2003473 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 21:11:04 UTC - in response to Message 2003467.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2019, 21:15:53 UTC

Keith,

What temperatures are you measuring using the AVX app on your 3900x? What cooler do you use on that beast? How many CPU tasks are you running in parallel?

I am planning to swap my 1800x to a 3900x but I see temperatures are problematic...

Right now I am at 80° C on the cpu in a 27 °C. room. I am running 12 cpu tasks and 3 gpu tasks concurrently. Have a manual all-core OC multiplier of 43. Using 1.25V on Vcore. Only using a EVGA 280 CLC cooler. I also have two 2080 Hybrid gpus dumping their heat into the case which does not help the cpu temps. If I wanted to drop the temps dramatically I would go for a bigger case like the Thermaltake Core X5 that I have the Threadripper 2920X in. I have dual 360mm X 60mm radiators in it. One loop for the cpu and another loop for gpus.
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Message 2003476 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 21:33:01 UTC

I have also discovered that the Threadripper-monitor thinks the 3900X is a TR in its graphical representation. It shows 2 CCD complexes just like TR has two dies in its package.
Ryzen-monitor screenshot of 3900X
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Message 2003480 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 21:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 2003476.  

15/24 threads used, but 90-100% cpu utilization?

is that a bug in the monitor, or do you have some other stuff running?
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Message 2003484 - Posted: 20 Jul 2019, 22:04:00 UTC - in response to Message 2003480.  

15/24 threads used, but 90-100% cpu utilization?

is that a bug in the monitor, or do you have some other stuff running?

No I have EVERYthing running as this is on the daily driver. So browser with multiple tabs open and BOINCTasks running to monitor the farm. I don't think tjhe value is correct though. Up until this morning and my composite cpu panel in GKrellm was only showing 68% cpu utilization. But for some reason now that panel has lost the value it normally shows. I keep losing cpu panel readouts for some reason. I have finally asked for help on the Ubuntu forums hoping somebody else has seen this problem and knows the solution. Bugs me.

But top shows only about 56% cpu utilization. So the monitor is confused I would say.
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Message 2003515 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 1:55:08 UTC - in response to Message 2003344.  

not old news according to what I'm seeing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/buydi6/amds_robert_hallock_no_pcie_40_support_on_300_and/epn2c83/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccg2t2/asus_receives_warning_letter_from_amd_due_to/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14639/no-amd-still-isnt-enabling-pcie-4-on-300400-series-boards

So with AMD intending to permanently disable the feature – and prevent any workarounds – AMD’s goals haven’t wavered. At best, the few boards that have beta BIOSes with the feature will lose them in the future, unless users opted to stick with an unsupported (and almost certainly buggy) BIOS.


AMD_Robert
Technical Marketing6 points ·
7 days ago

No salt required. We still plan to disable this in an upcoming AGESA release, for the same reasons cited at Computex.

The latest news about why AGESA 1.0.0.3ABA was pulled from the vendors by AMD.
https://www.techpowerup.com/257514/amd-agesa-1-0-0-3aba-buggy-company-pulls-it-from-motherboard-vendors
Has to do with "that PCIE speed of BXB-C downgraded from gen4 to gen2,..."
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Message 2003561 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 12:30:17 UTC

All this "bleeding edge" discussion on the Ryzen 3000 series reminds me of why they call it the "bleeding" edge.

I have forgotten just how unstable it can be when new hardware and bio's hit the production side.

Tom
I will stop procrastinating tomorrow.
\\// Live Long & Prosper (starting tomorrow ;)
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Message 2003593 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 16:26:39 UTC - in response to Message 2003561.  

All this "bleeding edge" discussion on the Ryzen 3000 series reminds me of why they call it the "bleeding" edge.

I have forgotten just how unstable it can be when new hardware and bio's hit the production side.

Tom

We are all beta testers when it comes to new hardware. The companies never spend enough time working out the bugs in the lab and just expect the users to debug for them for free upon release into the market.
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Message 2003596 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 16:34:34 UTC - in response to Message 2003473.  

Keith,

What temperatures are you measuring using the AVX app on your 3900x? What cooler do you use on that beast? How many CPU tasks are you running in parallel?

I am planning to swap my 1800x to a 3900x but I see temperatures are problematic...

Right now I am at 80° C on the cpu in a 27 °C. room. I am running 12 cpu tasks and 3 gpu tasks concurrently. Have a manual all-core OC multiplier of 43. Using 1.25V on Vcore. Only using a EVGA 280 CLC cooler. I also have two 2080 Hybrid gpus dumping their heat into the case which does not help the cpu temps. If I wanted to drop the temps dramatically I would go for a bigger case like the Thermaltake Core X5 that I have the Threadripper 2920X in. I have dual 360mm X 60mm radiators in it. One loop for the cpu and another loop for gpus.


Isn't 80° C too much for this chip? I don't like seeing my 1800x above 70° C... I know 7nm ryzens begin to throttle at around 90° C , but I don't know if it will shorten the life of the CPU if being continuously used around 80° C.
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Message 2003599 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 16:40:39 UTC - in response to Message 2003596.  

Keith,

What temperatures are you measuring using the AVX app on your 3900x? What cooler do you use on that beast? How many CPU tasks are you running in parallel?

I am planning to swap my 1800x to a 3900x but I see temperatures are problematic...

Right now I am at 80° C on the cpu in a 27 °C. room. I am running 12 cpu tasks and 3 gpu tasks concurrently. Have a manual all-core OC multiplier of 43. Using 1.25V on Vcore. Only using a EVGA 280 CLC cooler. I also have two 2080 Hybrid gpus dumping their heat into the case which does not help the cpu temps. If I wanted to drop the temps dramatically I would go for a bigger case like the Thermaltake Core X5 that I have the Threadripper 2920X in. I have dual 360mm X 60mm radiators in it. One loop for the cpu and another loop for gpus.


Isn't 80° C too much for this chip? I don't like seeing my 1800x above 70° C... I know 7nm ryzens begin to throttle at around 90° C , but I don't know if it will shorten the life of the CPU if being continuously used around 80° C.

Who knows? The silicon and process node is too new to have any track record. My 2700X's have run at 70-75 °C. for the last couple of years with no harm apparently. I would need to reduce the clocks and the voltage and or the loading to get the temps down. Heck, if I switched back to the SSE41 cpu application, that would drop the temps instantly by 3-4° and not have to do anything else.
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Message 2003611 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 17:48:44 UTC

With some help from the Ubuntu forums, I finally have figured out where Gkrellm keeps its configuration files. Even though one of the files warned it was not be manually edited, I went ahead and edited the correct attribute for the panels that were missing utilization values. A big win for me since this was really bugging me for the last year.

The composite cpu panel which is the total of all cpu cores on the 3900X is fluctuating between 58 -72%, mostly hovering right around 60% right now.
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Message 2003619 - Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 18:59:44 UTC - in response to Message 2003611.  

With some help from the Ubuntu forums, I finally have figured out where Gkrellm keeps its configuration files. Even though one of the files warned it was not be manually edited, I went ahead and edited the correct attribute for the panels that were missing utilization values. A big win for me since this was really bugging me for the last year.

The composite cpu panel which is the total of all cpu cores on the 3900X is fluctuating between 58 -72%, mostly hovering right around 60% right now.


You rebel you......
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