Begin Conspiracy Theory

Maybe the Russians are putting something in our water.
Or releasing some sort of mood-affecting mist over our cities.

End Conspiracy Theory

Seriously, though, there is so much more anger and hate now than there has
ever been before. I mean, we old people can remember times when people
were much more friendly. You never heard about road rage and other things
like that. Look at how people act on "black Friday." People are likely to start a
physical fight with a stranger over something very small. What's causing all
that? (Or is that too off-topic?)

But depression - maybe there has always been a lot of depression but it was
hidden because of the stigma, and the denial. Probably.

---

~Sue~

.......Crystal Light Fruit Punch.

What's that?

Sounds interesting.

It's probably packed with sugar, high-fructose corn syrup and/or other
sweeteners, meaning it should be consumed only occasionally and in moderation.

Anyone who is still consuming HFCS should stop! It is evil!

Consumed sugar makes fat.

No it has no sugar, or high fructose sweetener, I've been drinking it for years with no ill effects.

The only sweetener is Aspartame, and it's 3rd on the list of ingredients, which I've read...

The FDA approved its use in 1981, and The European Food Safety Authority concluded in its 2013 re-evaluation that aspartame and its breakdown products are safe for human consumption at current levels of exposure,[7] corroborating other medical reviews.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

there is so much more anger and hate now than there has
ever been before. I mean, we old people can remember times when people
were much more friendly. You never heard about road rage and other things
like that. Look at how people act on "black Friday." People are likely to start a
physical fight with a stranger over something very small. What's causing all
that? (Or is that too off-topic?)

But depression - maybe there has always been a lot of depression but it was
hidden because of the stigma, and the denial. Probably.

I do feel, like you, that there is more negative tension in the air nowadays, but it's hard to pin down, really. I think as we get older, we tend to be more passive about new things, and as the world changes, we feel estranged in a way, and that makes us irritable.

I don't know if I would call it a stigma, exactly, but there still is a general reluctance for people to say they are depressed because it brings the conversation(down, so to speak) into an area of serious discussion and a lot(most?) of people feel more comfortable in superficial contact unless it's direct family and friends. Even within a comfort zone, it's hard to say you are depressed because we are barraged by positive cues everyday. We feel obligated to say how great we are when we get that cup of coffee, or say hello to our friends at work, because it reciprocates the greeting we get, and we don't want to rock the boat. Especially if we're not feeling really well, we'll say we're great, just to avoid talking about it.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Thank you :) For the kind words, Mark, and all the plus ones's too everyone :) They mean much more to me than I can ever put into words.

If it hadn't been for a PM I received here that I have only just read, I wouldn't have been back today.

When I left here last time, I was feeling so sad - because I knew I was sorting out the tool thread with the intention to just fade away, probably for quite a long while - if not much longer.

I am still considering that, for a shorter duration maybe, but it was a such a lovely PM, and the thought that I might have missed it, and subsequently everyone's kind posts here if I had not had to keep boinc manager running through its last tasks, has given me cause to think harder about things than I was originally prepared to do. Thanks to everyone and everything that has played their part in that :)

...maybe I'm not that easy to get shot-of after all... ;)

I don't know.

I think that "depressed" as in feeling sad temporarily is distinctly different from "depression" as in feeling sad, and it seems to go on forever!

If I am depressed it goes away. If I am having depression, it doesn't (easily) go away without specific counter measures like Mindfulness meditation, Light box therapy (Seasonal Affective Disorder), high therapeutic doses of Omega-3, even prescribed Anti-depressants. Extended walking/jogging etc.

(Been there done that).

Tom

---

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

One thing I can't do, walk far or jog, it would be painful, for various reasons.

I did lose 32lbs recently, I'm hoping to continue that.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Begin Conspiracy Theory

Maybe the Russians are putting something in our water.
Or releasing some sort of mood-affecting mist over our cities.

End Conspiracy Theory
[quote]

For years the UK and the US and probably many other countries put alluminium powder in the general drinking water. It certainly helped control bugs but also (for marketing reasons) added brightness to the water.

Altziemers is us :( (Although less so if you smoke cigarettes interestingly.)


[quote]
Seriously, though, there is so much more anger and hate now than there has ever been before. I mean, we old people can remember times when people were much more friendly. You never heard about road rage and other things
like that. Look at how people act on "black Friday." People are likely to start a
physical fight with a stranger over something very small. What's causing all
that? (Or is that too off-topic?)
....

I think the association between "depression" and 'aggression' is unfounded. Don't forget that all those who go the other way and become more passive are often hidden. We tend to see those who are loud and not those who are silent (hidden) even when suffering or experiencing similar issues.

A story I can share is about Plato 2+ thousand years ago.. He writes and moans and groans about 'people today' and 'younger people' being disrespectfull and generally aggressive and rude.

It is a trueism that older people forget what it was like to be younger and biochemically, politically, socially and psychologically become more conservative, less capable of dealing with issues they could or did when they were younger.

But depression - maybe there has always been a lot of depression but it was
hidden because of the stigma, and the denial. Probably.

I think everybody from the begining of broader societal awareness (10 thousand years \ towns etc..) have known about depression but just haven't had the words or understanding to express the best social understanding or approach.

For me (clinical) "depression" is a misfortunate and erroneous term for a large broad spectrum of clinical issues that often have nothing to do with the (colloqial) everyday experience of being low or depressed.

Anyway if Plato was correct (and given we have around 20+ generations since then) by now all of us should be completely evil and have destroyed rather than created.

I for one am glad I live in a world where I can live to at least 70 and probably only because we have clean water, a good range of food, some innoculations and antibiotics...

In Plato's time someone who wasn't wealthy and suffered any form of illness would probably not have seen their 40th birthday.

If people are becoming more untoward and aggressive it suggests that the previous generation was also like that (minus a percentage) and society should have collapsed a long time ago.

If you have ever looked at food types, additives and supply historically us humans have experienced and used you would freak at the life threatening, mind changing chemicals. we have suffered.

You are not off topic if you believe that depression and aggression are linked.

.. but because you mentioned " we old people can remember times" I think the Plato story is apt as he is a really oldie oldie.. which makes you and me youngsters.

The the big questions for people suffering clinical depression (or any form of illness, sufferance or general distress) is why me or what caused this or if i do this or that will I become whole and be cured.

There are always individual success stories but for the majority it will be a struggle.

I say try anything.. but be practical..

Not that I can say I have always been so logical when in distress... Probably the oposite. :(

@cRunchy - I believe this thread was started by Puss in Boots in response to a comment I made in this thread. I assume because she felt more able to take the heat I got in my inbox (that caused me to make the comment in the first place) than I myself am. Which is why I said this.

If you get unpleasant or difficult posts in your inbox yet believe you have done nothing to encourage such then copy the posts to the admins and if they don't help then speak to those outside of your circle that you feel you can trust.

Please forgive us if we don't know or understand or have sensitivity towards discussions and relationships people make off forum. In truth we are a dissparate group of people who are a forum and not really family (even if at times we have that feeling.)

I am genuinely and truly sorry she has caught so much flak from people for doing so. I personally feel she had her heart in the right place when she posted her opening comment. That it was ignored is the responsibility of the person that ignored it though,surely? Obviously that can't be confirmed until her return, but I honestly don't know why you think that was you, cRunchy? That's not my take of everything that's been said :)

Hopefully I never gave flak. I was direct though in voicing that I thought it a bad idea to start a thread saying they were a nurse and inviting us to talk about an issue. (What next? Someone who comes onto the forum and says they are a doctor and invites us to talk about sexual dysfunction or worse and the implications......)

If Puss-In-Boots suffers depression too then that is a good place to start.

Certainly not a knock at you Anniet or meant as anything aggressive toward 'Boots.

@thread topic: I am currently so severely depressed I can't see a way forwards anymore. I come to the boards at the weekends especially, because they're the time very many of my current problems cannot be tackled, and so do so in the hope to turn off my life for a few hours. I even thought at some point, I might be able to contribute something meaningful here that could be useful to others.

But I've now lost count of how many weekend excursions onto the boards in the past couple of months, have made me more miserable than when I started. I'm the only one responsible for that - no one else. I let something go on for too long that I shouldn't have.

The result is one option I initially rejected in favour of trying something less drastic, but I'm now certain it won't work. So I'll opt for the other I think.

Sometimes I think I would love to come and chat on the boards but then I just can't face going back through all my posts and responding.

On one level I am greatfull that the forum keeps on going on regardless (people doing their natural stuff) and what I felt important really wasn't in the grand forum scheme of things...

Anniet. You speak your thoughts and feelings well.

I know depression often has little to do with how we speak but many other issues.

For me you do contribute.

I think myself lucky that this forum has people like you on it.

(I also often wonder why I might be tollerated here.. :)

Anniet. You are part of us you know.

I thought it a bad idea to start a thread saying they were a nurse and inviting us to talk about an issue. (What next? Someone who comes onto the forum and says they are a doctor and invites us to talk about sexual dysfunction or worse and the implications......)

Good point, I agree, but I think time and other posts can change initial perceptions.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

....
Good point, I agree, but I think time and other posts can change initial perceptions.

I know. Not all threads have easy births.. :)

I hear you Gordon....

Time to focus on the now.

Boots it is a good topic. Thank you.

To Be.

.

Except for perhaps being "angst-ridden", you could at least be having angst at times.

So, unless otherwise stated, a depression could be a state of your mind which deserves a better solution.

Perhaps a couple of beers in order to finish off the day, especially when the sunny day has made a couple of things a bit too hot.

Or perhaps I am rather confused and should think that a depression could mean a low pressure system developing at sea.

The great depression of the 1930's, which started with the Wall Street Crack in 1929 and here lacking the date, but could have been November,
made for such a thing as misery happening which was a result of the forces of nature.

A given definition of "Heaven versus Hell" supposedly belongs to that of Religion as a subject, but while a notion of Hell could perhaps be given,
that of Heaven could also mean "Paradise".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise

If it rather should become "Garden of Eden" instead, possibly we are once again being fooled, or carried away, because next it could be Eve being fooled by the snake in order to eat the
forbidden fruit from the tree.

What comes first, is it "Heaven", or is it Hell?

Using your eye or eyes, you could be looking through the lens of a microscope in order to see a different world which should be that of elementary particles at best.

If you rather should be an astronomer instead, you could rather believe in the redshift for that of the expansion of the Universe, or even that of the Cosmological constant for the same,
which next could possibly mean the Hubble constant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

But not necessarily that of acceleration either, because such a thing should not mean inertia either.

For this you probably know about the bucket of water which could be tied with a rope and next being turned around in a circle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy

Here I was thinking of it in the plural meaning, meaning "Academia", because it should not necessarily mean Berkeley either.

But if it rather becomes that of "Education", it next becomes both teaching and learning, more or less at the same time.

True depression in its intended meaning should not be about only angst or fear either, but at least you should know about the person with the hands against his eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migraine

Also while males could be still better at females when it comes to a couple of things, some women are suffering from a dreadful decease with the name of Migraine, which adversely affects
their way of living.

The one thing being noticed is that such a thing as thinking itself is not that much time-of-day oriented, but rather that I do not lie down on the floor in order to look at a couple of things,
when starting the day in the early morning.

The fact is that for each positive factor or thing, there could be ten times that many factors which could be related to those things thought to be negative.

Also that a depression should be anything else than perhaps striving for the ultimate goal, in order to next see it all going wrong.

We are assumed to believe that a couple of things could "stiffle" Productivity and next such a thing as Depression should not make things any better.

If you happen to be at the workplace and next feeling depressed, rather make it a sick leave instead by not showing up in the morning and next that the coffee machine could be in the store a day too late.

I'm on an anti-depressant and it seems to be working a little, but I think
I'm one of those people who might need one of those supplement pills -
the ones they advertise on TV for people who are on anti-depressants
but who still feel sad most of the time.

Are there any of you out there who are in this category who care to discuss this?

I keep telling myself I'm going to call my doctor, but I keep procrastinating.

---

~Sue~

Well I think My depression is related to My lung capacity, since My stomach is partly above My diaphragm, this was discovered when I had a CT scan in Dec 2016, they were looking for the cause of My kidney/bladder problems, found more than they were looking for.

So I'm looking at getting some extra O2, from either a bottle or a portable O2 generator. From what I read a lack of adequate O2 can be a cause of depression, most drugs didn't have any effect on Me.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

It is cheaper to go with a portable generator. Bottles get expensive. Then you have to deal with the supplier being honest and filling the bottles to the middle of the green zone. I'm not very happy with my stepmother's oxygen supplier. They fill the bottles to just past the white area. So the gauge reads just in the green.

---

I'm on an anti-depressant and it seems to be working a little, but I think
I'm one of those people who might need one of those supplement pills -
the ones they advertise on TV for people who are on anti-depressants
but who still feel sad most of the time.

Are there any of you out there who are in this category who care to discuss this?

I keep telling myself I'm going to call my doctor, but I keep procrastinating.

It's difficult for me to respond directly as I am in the UK and UK law probably disallows some of the TV adverts refering to depression that you see.

What are the names of those tablets and their ingedients?

One of the big problems is that sometimes companies will obfusticate the real ingredients by using a chemical name even though it might be just something you could pick from the side of the street.

The other issue for an international forum is that what can be sold in your country would be controlled or banned elsewhere.

The issue that catches my mind is that 99% of anti-depressants are aimed at those who have a similar brain \ body structure and chemistry. (Generally generic.) So may not properly suit those whose physiology (or mindset) do not fit that general norm of clinical depression.

Without knowing the TV advertised supplements you refer to it is imposible to comment.

Given most media advertised supplements (that would not otherwise be prescribed by a local GP) tend to be about making money off either ignorance or sufferance I have no fear in saying don't take (or buy) without properly researching. (.. and don't believe for a second the advertisements...)

St Jon's Wort is a common herbal remedy that is touted as a fix for depression. (There are plenty of others.)

Most of these you can grow for yourself or buy from local sources.

Another thing that gets me is that we are all individuals which means we also have certains 'moods' inbuilt into our cells.

A percentage of us will have a generally low (or happy or negative or go getting or passive.. whatever) mood so whilst we might suffer clinical depression it would probably be a mistake to try to chemically over-ride our biological natural state.

Of course that depends on what we mean by being sad or happy or the shades inbetween or outside.

(Sorry. I think I got a little verbose but I remember an issue here in the UK with a medication that caught on for psoriasis that was all the rage in the US.. It worked fantastically untill people ended up months later with far greater issues.. then discovered it was just the same hormone but at a much stronger dose.. Cells depleted and more damage.. :( )

If you have faith in your doctor then why not go for a chat.

Magical remedies seen on TV rarerly help anyone but the sellers. (It would be interesting to see what the curative statistics are above the initial placebo effect.)

The Doc wants Me to try a sleep trial, here at home, then I take the kit or whatever back, He thinks I have sleep apnea, ok that's a new one to Me.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

The Doc wants Me to try a sleep trial, here at home, then I take the kit or whatever back, He thinks I have sleep apnea, ok that's a new one to Me.

Worth a try!

I think they are looking at the issue of disruption to lung movement relating to your stomach position.

Common question relating to apnea (I have been asked them) are are you overweight (especially around the neck) or have suffered brain injury or neurological issues...? (Restless leg seems to be another question asked.)

Oxygnation of blood can be checked with the same (similar) device they clip on your finger to monitor your pulse.

I guess they want to check what you are up to when you are suppossed to be asleep..

Maybe you are a sleepwalking disco dancer or maybe you astrally project like all good SETI BOINCers :)~

The Doc wants Me to try a sleep trial, here at home, then I take the kit or whatever back, He thinks I have sleep apnea, ok that's a new one to Me.

Worth a try!

I think they are looking at the issue of disruption to lung movement relating to your stomach position.

Common question relating to apnea (I have been asked them) are are you overweight (especially around the neck) or have suffered brain injury or neurological issues...? (Restless leg seems to be another question asked.)

Oxygnation of blood can be checked with the same (similar) device they clip on your finger to monitor your pulse.

I guess they want to check what you are up to when you are supposed to be asleep..

Maybe you are a sleepwalking disco dancer or maybe you astrally project like all good SETI BOINCers :)~

410lbs, around My neck, no, mainly My abs, and thighs. I used to weigh 32lbs more, the Doc said I'd lost 35lbs.

Sorry I don't sleepwalk, or snore, although if I have to, I will get up and use the bathroom.

Mom did try to teach Me to dance, mainly "the Waltz".

No to brain or any neurological issues.

Oh sure I have 2 scars on My head, one from tripping on a heater floor grate when I was 3yrs old on to My forehead(think Frankenstein's monster or Hermann Munster, this I had to be told about, My memories start around 5yrs old), and a small one hidden above My hairline when I ran into the back end of a pickup truck while carrying some groceries home on My bicycle when I was 9yrs old(that I do remember), plus I was exposed to 2nd hand smoke for most of My life, My parents both smoked.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

St Jon's Wort is a common herbal remedy

My mother used to buy that for several years. She thought it helped her a little bit, but she stopped taking it, and I don't know why, really, but I think she felt like it wasn't really making an impact for her. She never took any actual anti-depressant medication until after the fall in her home that landed her in a complicated four month hospital incarceration. Her doctor recommended to me that she take a very small dose of escitalopram in addition to her extremely low dose of Lorazepam, for anxiety. I don't know if any of it really helped. I asked her many times, and her responses gave me the impression it wasn't helping in the depression, but it was helping in the nervousness.

A percentage of us will have a generally low (or happy or negative or go getting or passive.. whatever) mood so whilst we might suffer clinical depression it would probably be a mistake to try to chemically over-ride our biological natural state.

My mother was always on the low mood side. What does that mean, exactly? Well, she was always a very contemplative ponderous person. That, in itself doesn't clinically define depression, although it may superficially come across so to some people. In the grand scheme of things, she was a dichotomous mix of mellowness and anxiety. The way I follow your point is we should all try harder to live with the way our brains are, rather than try to change them through medication. I can agree with that to a certain extent, but it doesn't always work, and modern brain science medicine is good for a lot of people.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place