New version of Win10 not running BOINC Screensaver

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Message 1860172 - Posted: 7 Apr 2017, 19:30:05 UTC

Regarding the newest version of Win 10, release 1703 15063.13 is not engaging the BOIC screensaver.
link at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
On three different PCs, after completing the hour+ long windows 10 update, BOINC does not start.
Can't get it to run even after reinstall of BOINC 7.6.33
Curious if others who have performed the same win upgrade have seen similar problems.
Helping where I can. Hindering everywhere else.
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Message 1860210 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 0:31:40 UTC - in response to Message 1860172.  

Can't get it to run even after reinstall of BOINC 7.6.33

How not so, what error message or any other message do you get?
Jord

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Message 1860319 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 13:12:31 UTC - in response to Message 1860210.  

Can't get it to run even after reinstall of BOINC 7.6.33

How not so, what error message or any other message do you get?


No error message! Just no engaging the screen saver after the screen saver time
has expired. On one system, I get a brief flash of the small logo and the message
"screensaver loading" and immediately goes back to my normal Windows screen.

I resolved a previous problem by turning off the GPU processor option, I have tried
that on the other two systems with no joy.

I am curious if anyone else has also experienced a problem with this major upgrade.
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Message 1860322 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 13:22:50 UTC - in response to Message 1860319.  

"BOINC does not start" means "boinc.exe is not in the list of running processes" (as seen in Windows Task Manager, Process Explorer, ...)
"no engaging the screen saver" does not mean BOINC is not running.
BOINC screensaver (boinc.scr + boincscr.exe) only shows some pictures, it is not really needed for the processing
("processing" is done by SETI@home applications which are started by boinc.exe)



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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Message 1860365 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 15:37:03 UTC - in response to Message 1860319.  

The screen saver uses OpenGL on the videocard to show the graphics. As other Windows 10 upgrades have shown, they'll overwrite any and all user installed drivers by crap Microsoft deems more important or better than what you had. The Windows installed crap drivers don't include necessary things such as OpenGL (and for calculations on the GPU things like OpenCL and CUDA).

So always get your drivers from the manufacturer of the videocard/GPU. In your case, Nvidia and if you use the Intel GPU for driving the monitor, Intel.
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Message 1860394 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 18:13:32 UTC - in response to Message 1860365.  

"BOINC does not start" means "boinc.exe is not in the list of running processes" (as seen in Windows Task Manager, Process Explorer, ...)
"no engaging the screen saver" does not mean BOINC is not running.
BOINC screensaver (boinc.scr + boincscr.exe) only shows some pictures, it is not really needed for the processing
("processing" is done by SETI@home applications which are started by boinc.exe)

While watching Task Manager, when the screensaver timer expires BOINC starts and immediately stops from the Tasks list.
BOINC IS NOT RUNNING.


The screen saver uses OpenGL on the videocard to show the graphics. As other Windows 10 upgrades have shown, they'll overwrite any and all user installed drivers by crap Microsoft deems more important or better than what you had. The Windows installed crap drivers don't include necessary things such as OpenGL (and for calculations on the GPU things like OpenCL and CUDA).
So always get your drivers from the manufacturer of the videocard/GPU. In your case, Nvidia and if you use the Intel GPU for driving the monitor, Intel.

I verified all systems are using the latest Nvidia drivers.


Look, I am not having a unique problem here. I am telling you there is a problem with the latest Windows 10 update and BOINC. The failures are too exactly similar to be a system problem unique to me. The three systems are widely different, the common factors are they all have an Nvidia video subsystem , they all are running BOINC 7.6.33 and they all have the latest Win 10 version 1703 15063.13 installed. And they all quit working.
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Message 1860404 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 18:45:30 UTC
Last modified: 8 Apr 2017, 18:49:23 UTC

I am a little confused.

Boinc should be already running before the screensaver starts.

If Boinc does not start nor can you start in manually it is a Boinc problem not SETI@Home and should be reported on the Boinc forum

It would be SETI@home that starts with the screensaver

Can you see the Boinc start up log?

if so can you copy and paste the first 30 or so lines.

Also the last time Widows did one of their updates it installed the default Windows drivers which while they appear to be the correct ones were striped of a lot of functionally.

After a big Windows update I would always recommend getting the drivers from the Nvidia website and do a "clean " install.
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Message 1860424 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 21:59:21 UTC - in response to Message 1860404.  
Last modified: 8 Apr 2017, 22:40:03 UTC

I am a little confused.
-As am I. As much as I want to help BOINC/SETI, this is taking up way too much time.

Boinc should be already running before the screensaver starts.
- Boinc client and Boinc System Tray for Windows are running as background processes in Task Manager
Boinc Screensaver appears to run as an App for about a second when the screensaver timer value is reached, as the
Boinc screensaver loading message appears, then immediately terminates. Boinc Screensaver disappears
from the App panel of Task Manager after apparently showing up when the screensaver loading message shows.

If Boinc does not start nor can you start in manually it is a Boinc problem not SETI@Home and should be reported on the Boinc forum
-I don't know if it is Boinc or Seti not running, only that Boinc Screensaver does not run and no processing occurs.
I have the screensaver timer set at 1 minute now, and every minute that the system is idle, the Boinc
screensaver loading message appears, then goes away. Is it a Boinc problem? A Seti problem? I don't know, but you have a forum here
at Seti called Windows, Installing And Running BOINC on Windows, so this is where I posted the problem.

It would be SETI@home that starts with the screensaver
-So its not a SETI problem then and we can all go home.

Can you see the Boinc start up log?
-No. I can't find it under Program files, Program data, Windows logs, or users/my name. There is an Event Log on the Boinc Manager
but that is not a start up log is it?

if so can you copy and paste the first 30 or so lines.
-Give me a location and whatever name it has.

Also the last time Widows did one of their updates it installed the default Windows drivers which while they appear to be the correct ones were striped of a lot of functionally.
-Something you may want to warn others of when they start reporting problems too.

After a big Windows update I would always recommend getting the drivers from the Nvidia website and do a "clean " install.
-As I said, not only did I verify the GPU has the latest drivers, I also have GPU disabled for processing.

Another morsel of data -- when I go to the Screensaver control under Lock Screen Screensaver Settings, BOINC is selected as my screensaver, but when I hit the Preview button it does not load the BOINC screensaver, it flashes for a second then goes back. This occurs on all three systems so I consider it an important clue.
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Message 1860436 - Posted: 8 Apr 2017, 23:33:58 UTC

Can you see the Boinc start up log?
-No. I can't find it under Program files, Program data, Windows logs, or users/my name. There is an Event Log on the Boinc Manager
but that is not a start up log is it?


Yes that is the one.

Copy and past the first 30 lines from that.

What happens if you set the screensaver to none. i.e don't run the screensaver.

Does SETI@Home start processing? If so it will be something in the new Windows 10 set up.

As the new Windows build is not officially released until Tuesday you may have to wait till then before other people start getting the update automatically.

Then perhaps there will be answers, of course most people here don't run the screen saver as it doesn't actually show much and of course uses up processing power that could be used for crunching :-)
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Message 1860442 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 0:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 1860424.  
Last modified: 9 Apr 2017, 0:47:20 UTC

After a big Windows update I would always recommend getting the drivers from the Nvidia website and do a "clean " install.
-As I said, not only did I verify the GPU has the latest drivers, I also have GPU disabled for processing.
The latest drivers doesn't mean anything, not if you don't tell where you got them from. Did you allow Windows to install them, or did you get them from the GPU's manufacturers website?
I see that your GTX 1070 uses 375.63, but the drivers from the Nvidia site are 381.65 (available here).

Again, to be able to use the screen saver, the drivers need to include OpenGL. Microsoft tends to take that out of drivers they release, because a) it's open source, b) it's a direct competitor to MS' own DirectX. Similarly to be able to use the GPU now for processing, you'd need OpenCL and CUDA included. Also things that Microsoft takes out of drivers that they release through Windows. As such...
Also the last time Widows did one of their updates it installed the default Windows drivers which while they appear to be the correct ones were striped of a lot of functionally.
-Something you may want to warn others of when they start reporting problems too.
We constantly warn people about that, every time that MS updates Windows 10 we have people here with exactly the problems you display. Installing the drivers from the manufacturer fixes the problem for 99% of the people.
Jord

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Message 1860457 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 1:35:50 UTC

I can replicate the behavior. I just upgraded my daily driver to the new Windows 10 Creators Update. I suspended GPU processing and all other projects so that I can ensure only SETI CPU tasks are running. I also upgraded my BOINC to v7.6.33 to keep the test as similar as possible.

Note that the Windows 10 upgrade did not force Microsoft's video drivers onto my system. It left my existing Radeon Crimson suite installed.

I set my screen saver from disabled (because I don't use it) to BOINC and set the timer to 1 minute. I can see that my screen goes to the BOINC message saying it is loading the screensaver, then it dumps me back to my desktop. Tested this 4 times and the screen saver won't actually load.

I can't say that I exactly replicated the problem because I don't know if it was working on my system before the upgrade. As I said, I don't bother with the screen saver so I leave it disabled. For all I know, it may not have been working before the upgrade so I can't blame it on the upgrade yet. I decided to go over to my girlfriend's computer to test since she's still using Windows 10 Anniversary Update, and performing the same on her's (enabling the screen saver and setting it to 1 minute) seems to work as expected.

There's nothing in the BOINC Event log, nor do I see anything recent in stderrdae.txt. I even fired up procmon.exe and filtered at first for anything that began with BOINC, then after failing to note anything of importance I filtered down to any result that wasn't a success but still nothing. Finally, I filtered further for all process names of boinc.scr and results there were not a success, however I still don't see anything that sticks out as an obvious cause.
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Message 1860510 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 8:17:35 UTC

All right, for the moment I have posted this to the BOINC Alpha email list. Let's see if others see this behaviour.
Charlie, it doesn't inhibit the actual crunching, right? It's just that the screen saver doesn't run, but work is processing?
Jord

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Message 1860553 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 13:56:57 UTC
Last modified: 9 Apr 2017, 13:58:48 UTC

OK I have just updated one of my machines to the Windows 10 Creators build.

I can confirm that it replaced my Nvidia driver with one lacking OpenCL resulting in "missing GPU" message ( I had processing suspended so no harm done)

I can also confirm that the screensaver does not start, it flashes up on screen for a second then just disappears.

I checked before the update and it did work.

Other screensavers work OK.

If you have set Boinc processing to start with the screensaver it does not start.

If you set Boinc processing to start when computer is not in use but do not set the screen saver, it starts OK.

If say you set Boinc to start after one minute and the screensaver to start after two minutes, when the screensaver fails it stops Boinc, with "user active".

So to sum up if you have the screensaver and BOINC set the same, processing will not start.

As an aside the update also rendered my expensive gaming keyboard inert. I just hope there are new drivers!!
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Message 1860558 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 14:13:00 UTC - in response to Message 1860457.  

I can replicate the behavior. I just upgraded my daily driver to the new Windows 10 Creators Update. I suspended GPU processing and all other projects so that I can ensure only SETI CPU tasks are running. I also upgraded my BOINC to v7.6.33 to keep the test as similar as possible.
Note that the Windows 10 upgrade did not force Microsoft's video drivers onto my system. It left my existing Radeon Crimson suite installed.
I set my screen saver from disabled (because I don't use it) to BOINC and set the timer to 1 minute. I can see that my screen goes to the BOINC message saying it is loading the screensaver, then it dumps me back to my desktop. Tested this 4 times and the screen saver won't actually load.
I can't say that I exactly replicated the problem because I don't know if it was working on my system before the upgrade. As I said, I don't bother with the screen saver so I leave it disabled. For all I know, it may not have been working before the upgrade so I can't blame it on the upgrade yet. I decided to go over to my girlfriend's computer to test since she's still using Windows 10 Anniversary Update, and performing the same on her's (enabling the screen saver and setting it to 1 minute) seems to work as expected.
There's nothing in the BOINC Event log, nor do I see anything recent in stderrdae.txt. I even fired up procmon.exe and filtered at first for anything that began with BOINC, then after failing to note anything of importance I filtered down to any result that wasn't a success but still nothing. Finally, I filtered further for all process names of boinc.scr and results there were not a success, however I still don't see anything that sticks out as an obvious cause.


Finally someone believes there is A problem and it isn't MY problem.

Below is the Event Log. You can see I DO have Nvidia 381.65 so stop harping on that.

When I set the screensaver to none nothing happens. Why should it? That is the control for SETI to run.

For me, as a casual supporter/user, the screensaver=BOINC=SETI and that is the only time SETI runs. That is what I offer, when the
PCs are not actively being used I let them run and process SETI data via the screensaver. These are work PCs not dedicated SETI platforms.

The problem has been replicated by ozzfan. I'll check back here occasionally for the fix.

event log follows-

4/9/2017 9:28:38 AM | | Starting BOINC client version 7.6.33 for windows_x86_64
4/9/2017 9:28:38 AM | | log flags: file_xfer, sched_ops, task
4/9/2017 9:28:38 AM | | Libraries: libcurl/7.47.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2g zlib/1.2.8
4/9/2017 9:28:38 AM | | Data directory: C:\ProgramData\BOINC
4/9/2017 9:28:38 AM | | Running under account Amtronic
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | CUDA: NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GTX 1070 (driver version 381.65, CUDA version 8.0, compute capability 6.1, 4096MB, 3560MB available, 6463 GFLOPS peak)
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | OpenCL: NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GTX 1070 (driver version 381.65, device version OpenCL 1.2 CUDA, 8192MB, 3560MB available, 6463 GFLOPS peak)
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | OpenCL: Intel GPU 0: Intel(R) HD Graphics 530 (driver version 21.20.16.4550, device version OpenCL 2.0, 6507MB, 6507MB available, 221 GFLOPS peak)
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | OpenCL CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz (OpenCL driver vendor: Intel(R) Corporation, driver version 6.8.0.392, device version OpenCL 2.0 (Build 392))
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Host name: STROGG
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Processor: 8 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz [Family 6 Model 94 Stepping 3]
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss htt tm pni ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movebe popcnt aes f16c rdrandsyscall nx lm avx avx2 vmx smx tm2 pbe fsgsbase bmi1 hle smep bmi2
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | OS: Microsoft Windows 10: Core x64 Edition, (10.00.15063.00)
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Memory: 15.90 GB physical, 31.90 GB virtual
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Disk: 918.85 GB total, 735.56 GB free
4/9/2017 9:28:54 AM | | Local time is UTC -4 hours
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | SETI@home | URL http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/; Computer ID 8204603; resource share 100
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | SETI@home | General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 03-Aug-2016 10:56:19)
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | SETI@home | Computer location: home
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | SETI@home | General prefs: no separate prefs for home; using your defaults
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | | Reading preferences override file
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | | Preferences:
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | | max memory usage when active: 8143.35MB
4/9/2017 9:28:55 AM | | max memory usage when idle: 14658.02MB
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | max disk usage: 50.00GB
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | don't compute while active
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | don't use GPU while active
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | suspend work if non-BOINC CPU load exceeds 25%
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | (to change preferences, visit a project web site or select Preferences in the Manager)
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | Suspending computation - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:28:57 AM | | Suspending network activity - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:41:44 AM | | Suspending GPU computation - user request
4/9/2017 9:41:44 AM | | Resuming network activity
4/9/2017 9:41:44 AM | | Suspending computation - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:41:44 AM | | Suspending network activity - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:42:46 AM | | Resuming computation
4/9/2017 9:42:46 AM | | Resuming network activity
4/9/2017 9:42:47 AM | | Suspending computation - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:42:47 AM | | Suspending network activity - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:59:23 AM | | Resuming computation
4/9/2017 9:59:23 AM | | Resuming network activity
4/9/2017 9:59:24 AM | | Suspending computation - computer is in use
4/9/2017 9:59:24 AM | | Suspending network activity - computer is in use
Helping where I can. Hindering everywhere else.
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Message 1860561 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 14:25:49 UTC
Last modified: 9 Apr 2017, 14:30:32 UTC

When I set the screensaver to none nothing happens. Why should it? That is the control for SETI to run.


No it actually isn't, if you see my last post the two are separate,

In the Boinc preference panel it depends on what you have set.



The default I believe is the 3 minutes you see.

However in my test if you were to set the screensaver to 5 minutes, Boinc will process work for 2 minutes then then screensaver failing to start will stop it for 3 more then it will process for two etc,etc.

I run Boinc all the time with "exceptions" so it does not affect me as I do not have the "Suspend when computer is in use" box ticked. Nor do I run a screensaver of any kind. So it is unfortunate that this will affect the people who may not realise what is happening.

It is a fault that the Windows 10 upgrade has introduced.
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Message 1860564 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 14:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 1860510.  

Charlie, it doesn't inhibit the actual crunching, right? It's just that the screen saver doesn't run, but work is processing?


That's correct. Processing is occurring, just the screen saver won't load. As an additional test, I re-enabled Rosetta and waited for that screen saver to load, and the graphics froze on my screen. Moving the mouse didn't bring me back to my desktop. I had to press CTRL+ALT+DEL to get to the menu, then I could ESC out and go back to my desktop. I've turned off the screen saver once again.
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Message 1860576 - Posted: 9 Apr 2017, 15:15:11 UTC

Charlie, it doesn't inhibit the actual crunching, right? It's just that the screen saver doesn't run, but work is processing?

Not if you have the processing and screensaver start together.

if you have "Suspend when computer is in use" and the screen saver set for the same time the failing screensaver stops the processing.

Also if you have the 2 set differently each time the screensaver tries to start and fail it will cause processing to stop.

Well that is what I found
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Message 1860711 - Posted: 10 Apr 2017, 8:43:56 UTC
Last modified: 10 Apr 2017, 8:55:49 UTC

I've for the moment put this break in Github: Issue #1856

But I also find it strange...
It's Microsoft that breaks something in their update, because it worked prior to the update and it doesn't after the update. So why do the software developers then have to fix all the stuff Microsoft breaks? Why don't the users complain to Microsoft that they broke the software?

When you bring your car to the garage and get it back at the end of the day with a non-working radio, will you be going back to the garage and ask what they did and if they will PDQ fix that, or will you go to the radio manufacturer's website and demand they fix it? If the garage, then why do it differently when it comes to software? All worked prior to the Windows Update, it doesn't after the Windows Update. Who's to blame? The software developer? Why?
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Message 1860722 - Posted: 10 Apr 2017, 11:54:21 UTC

Perhaps I trust the maker of the radio more than I trust the garage.

But you are of course correct, however as it doesn't actually affect me I don't feel like taking on the job of reporting it to MS.

Perhaps the OP would?
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Message 1860732 - Posted: 10 Apr 2017, 13:40:46 UTC - in response to Message 1860722.  
Last modified: 10 Apr 2017, 13:47:18 UTC

Perhaps I trust the maker of the radio more than I trust the garage.
But you are of course correct, however as it doesn't actually affect me I don't feel like taking on the job of reporting it to MS.
Perhaps the OP would?


No the OP won't.
MS doesn't give a damn if your little boinc/seti toy stopped working. You seriously think that MS will
issue a new update to fix whatever they did to break boinc? For 30+ years the software industry has
had to react and adjust to whatever MS does. They got the juice. And you don't have a drop.


BTW I reported this problem first and expect to have the asteroid named after me.
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