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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Oh

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So in a nutshell what you are saying is that the gun situation is so out of control in the USA that you need a gun to protect yourself, because all the bad guys have guns.
And because of the situation the police are unable to protect you against crime.

Is that correct?

So as I am intending to visit the USA later this year, you would advise that as the situation is so out of control that it would be best if I did not visit as I will not be safe?

Bernie, in the alternate universe Eye inhabits this country is a lawless as Somalia.

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Far be it from me to 'advise' anyone on how to best protect themselves or their loved ones. I don't tell anyone what rights they have and don't have and only request the same courtesy in return.

Any post I make on this thread or any other thread is intended to present my position for my personal protection and security and that of my family, friends and loved ones. Or as satirical comment on opposing points of view.

I assume you are an adult and far more capable than I of judging your particular needs better than anyone else.

By the way, here's another valuable insight into my P.O.V.....

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Wouldn't a fire extinguisher be a better analogy? A smoke detector is to a fire what an intrusion/burglar alarm is to an intruder.

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Wouldn't a fire extinguisher be a better analogy? A smoke detector is to a fire what an intrusion/burglar alarm is to an intruder.

You expect honesty from a gun nut?

That sign will only be seen in a few states, and then probably only where the distance to the police station is considerable, because this is the response from insurance companies that cover schools. From NBC.

What the state lawmakers didn’t expect, perhaps, was the response from EMC Insurance Companies, which covers most Kansas school districts.

EMC immediately sent a letter to its agents in response to the prospect that districts could legally allow teachers to be armed on their campuses.

“EMC has concluded that concealed handguns on school premises pose a heightened liability risk,” the letter read. “Because of this increased risk, we have chosen not to insure schools that allow employees to carry concealed handguns.”

Total side sidestepping all of the points of my question as I knew you would

Are you or are you not saying that the reason you and others in the USA need to protect yourself with firearms is because law and order has broken down to the extent that the police cannot protect normal citizens?

You need to be able to deal with armed criminals on a daily basis because the police cannot?

I am not asking about rights, I am asking about the arguments put forward by people who say they MUST be able to own a gun.

I am also asking if schools and colleges need to have armed guards, can I as someone from a foreign country possibly expect to feel safe?

I am saying, for the sake of clarity, that I, personally, observe the right to be prepared to defend myself, my family, my loved ones and my property in any situation that may arise by any legal means afforded me by the Constitution of the United States and the Amendments thereto. There is a vast difference between being a 'cowboy' and being prepared.

I made no allegations of breakdown of civil authority as you well know. I carry a gun because I can't carry a policeman(unlike many celebrities), and the first notice Police usually get of trouble is the alert "Shots Fired". I'm saying average Police response time is not conducive to survival in most lethal confrontational events.

I still assume you are mature enough to make your own decisions regarding personal safety in America, or are you saying YOU fear there has been such a breakdown?

I resent your trying to say things for me that I did not. You will not bait me into an argument or exchange. I have my views and will state them as guaranteed by the First Amendment and will continue to 'Bear Arms' as guaranteed by the Second. You, not being a US citizen don't have a decision to make as you will not be allowed to 'Bear Arms' legally here.

You have your views and are free to state them as well and as I've repeatedly posted those who don't wish to read my views can block my posts, as I have from those I consider irrelevant to most discussions................very simple.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Perhaps if you didn't use these strange pictures suggesting that a gun is as necessary as a smoke alarm, and that all schools and colleges should be armed campuses, then maybe I could understand.

If you say those things then others may assume that law and order has broken down. I am fairly sure it hasn't since my last visit in 2013.

However, as this is a worldwide forum people from other countries who have perhaps never been to the USA and see things like this in many places, facebook and the like say to me "Is America really like that, do people need to carry guns to feel safe?" My answer now days is, no some need to carry guns to feel free.

Even the so called experts can't be trusted with safely handing a firearm.

Dancing FBI agent drops gun during backflip and shoots man in leg.

So why would anyone want to trust any silly gun nut with a firearm to start with?

And we've all seen how your cops are with dangerous weapons.

It seems like a very paranoid and uncomfortable way to live, to have the attitude that carrying a firearm is a necessary way of life. Even if you just want to carry one because you can, it seems kind of over the top.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

My answer now days is, no some need to carry guns to feel free.

And that is a very good answer Ms Vine. As America is the ONLY country in the world where THAT freedom is embraced and defended by Constitutional Law. Every citizen of the US is free to decide for themselves what is right for their situation. To carry or not to carry, legally, is a choice not forced on anyone.

There are many 'freedom of choices' I find disgusting, abortion being the foremost, but I understand that freedom of choice it is the law until it is changed. The Second Amendment is also law, but of a 'higher order' as it's enshrined in the Constitutional foundations of the United States and defended by the Supreme Court.

The primary reason for the Second Amendment can be found in many of the contemporary documents written by the founders. That reason is to allow the everyday citizens of America to defend themselves from those who would deny their rights, whether invading armies or more insidious efforts from within our own government(as was the case under Mad King George).

Those 'silly pictures' convey a serious meaning or a satirical look at positions contrary to support of the Second Amendment and is a First Amendment right of mine to post. Readers should be able to sift truth and reality from the information they find on their own unless that information is slanted by the source(fake news).

The 'heavily armed and trained staff' meme is a serious answer to a serious problem. It has been proven, repeatedly unfortunately, that people of evil intent enter schools with the objective of killing students and teachers for whatever sick reason. The logical and simplest answer is to PROTECT those children from evil intent.

Removing all firearms from society is a ludicrous notion that can NEVER be accomplished in fact, therefor the danger must be met with equal force and determination.

Here's another 'silly picture' that expresses my P.O.V........and exercises my First Amendment Right...



@ Gordon.....I wonder if that thought went through the mind of a victim in the Pulse nightclub before they died? We'll never know. It's not about paranoia, it's about being PREPARED for a situation that COULD happen, like wearing a life jacket in a boat or fastening you seatbelt, statistics say you probably won't be involved in a boating or traffic accident but IF YOU ARE those inanimate objects could save your life. The same is true for the inanimate object I carry daily.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

I am saying, for the sake of clarity, that I, personally, observe the right to be prepared to defend myself, my family, my loved ones and my property in any situation that may arise by any legal means afforded me by the Constitution of the United States and the Amendments thereto. There is a vast difference between being a 'cowboy' and being prepared.

So you have no plans to visit anywhere else in the World, because your Constitution and Amendments mean nothing elsewhere in the World, and because you want to be armed to the teeth, ready for any perceived threat in your own mind, you're basically scared shitless to leave US shores?

I made no allegations of breakdown of civil authority as you well know. I carry a gun because I can't carry a policeman(unlike many celebrities), and the first notice Police usually get of trouble is the alert "Shots Fired". I'm saying average Police response time is not conducive to survival in most lethal confrontational events.

What is the average response time for Police (not that handgun in your pocket that you think is the Police), where you live?

I still assume you are mature enough to make your own decisions regarding personal safety in America, or are you saying YOU fear there has been such a breakdown?

Maturity is certainly an element in this thread topic.

I resent your trying to say things for me that I did not. You will not bait me into an argument or exchange. I have my views and will state them as guaranteed by the First Amendment and will continue to 'Bear Arms' as guaranteed by the Second. You, not being a US citizen don't have a decision to make as you will not be allowed to 'Bear Arms' legally here.

I again reitterate my question, have you ever left the apparent safety of US Soil? Or do you confine yourself to a 'safe space'? (Sorry guys, had to use that)

You have your views and are free to state them as well and as I've repeatedly posted those who don't wish to read my views can block my posts, as I have from those I consider irrelevant to most discussions................very simple.

No mate, I could never block you, for two reasons, despite the recent death of free speech here in the UK, I won't block opposing views as they are a counterweight to any discussion in a free society, and secondly, you're obviously a source of wonderment.

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What is the average response time for Police (not that handgun in your pocket that you think is the Police), where you live?

It got so bad they stopped tracking it. Yes seriously, they are taking that long. Exception is "shots fired, officer down." That runs about 5 minutes. However in Alaska the time could be measured in days.

And that is a very good answer Ms Vine.

While I suppose you may not know my gender (it is male by the way), it is best not to guess and at the worst insulting.

I will now do what I do when I get spam phone calls asking for Bernhard Vein.

I hang up.

You have also proved my point, I said "feel" free, not to prove they are free.

The primary reason for the Second Amendment can be found in many of the contemporary documents written by the founders. That reason is to allow the everyday citizens of America to defend themselves from those who would deny their rights, whether invading armies or more insidious efforts from within our own government(as was the case under Mad King George).

Doh, there's an argument supported by an untruth, 'Mad King George' was a Constitutional Monarch, not an Absolute Monarch, Executive Power was held by the British Parliament, and the elected Government of the day.

King George had as much executive power to wield as today's Queen Elizabeth II, none.

Executive Power was held by a British Government that was elected by less than 5% of the UK Population, based on the Electoral System of that time, so you can neither blame 'Mad King George', or the British People for the sideshow Revolutionary War in the US Colonies, or subscribe the reason one side won that conflict down to the existence of the 2nd Amendment, as the most significant reason for the win was down to the French participation.

So really, every US Citizen needs to be armed with a French Sailor, to ensure there's no tyranny going on in the Trump Administration, and or to ensure that the redcoats don't turn up on tall ships to force you to drink hot tea, and warm beer.

Those 'silly pictures' convey a serious meaning or a satirical look at positions contrary to support of the Second Amendment and is a First Amendment right of mine to post. Readers should be able to sift truth and reality from the information they find on their own unless that information is slanted by the source(fake news).

Then again, any reasonable person might consider silly pictures to be, silly pictures.

The 'heavily armed and trained staff' meme is a serious answer to a serious problem.

Yup it certainly is a serious problem for some people.

It has been proven, repeatedly unfortunately, that people of evil intent enter schools with the objective of killing students and teachers for whatever sick reason. The logical and simplest answer is to PROTECT those children from evil intent.

By making possession illegal, and ensuring access to such weapons is extremely difficult? Yeah, I tend to agree, that's worked here in the UK since 1997.

Removing all firearms from society is a ludicrous notion that can NEVER be accomplished in fact, therefor the danger must be met with equal force and determination.

Well 100% removal is difficult, but effective means to prevent access to firearms, backed up by legislation seems to have been effective in most of the UK for more than 20 years now.

Just remember, that these rights that you hold sacred, really do end at your borders, rightly or wrongly.

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No I don't plan to travel outside the US, why would I? Everything I love or need is right here.

I totally reject the view that banning of firearms has worked elsewhere, if that were so there would be NO INSTANCES of firearms being used in crimes of violence in those venues, which you know is not true, most recently a man in Wiggies own corner of the British Commonwealth murdered his family in this supposed haven from the evil firearm. All were confiscated so how could this occur?

Those who choose to remain in their coma of denial are welcome to do so as I have repeatedly stated, it's no difference to me. But if the time should ever come when we are in the same place and threatened by a violent madman, rest assured I will defend YOUR right to life as vehemently as I will defend my own.

But I will not die on my knees begging for my life.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

What is the average response time for Police (not that handgun in your pocket that you think is the Police), where you live?

It got so bad they stopped tracking it. Yes seriously, they are taking that long. Exception is "shots fired, officer down." That runs about 5 minutes. However in Alaska the time could be measured in days.

So, would you be happy with 8 minutes?

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