All I know is that I see these massive 18 wheeler artics with some youth in the cab that looks like he is straight out of school. It does not engender me, the public, with any confidence.

All depends on just how much training and experience they've had.

My biggest concern is the mental age of many of the drivers of ordinary cars/4WDs etc. Some of them are only 17, others well in to their 50s & everything in between. But they seem to have the maturity of 4 year olds. Not good when they're driving on public roads in huge numbers.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Whilst there is no doubt HGV drivers of a young age have demonstrated their competence to physically handle their vehicle to a certain prescribed standard, at age 19/20 it is my opinion that they could lack the emotional maturity and experience needed on todays busy and congested roads. Therefore I would advocate putting the age back to 21, for most HGV vehicles, and maybe even 25 for the 18 wheelers and that ilk.

Car licence for 3 years, OK, pass a test at 21 you can drive an HGV. HGV licence for 4 years and 25, OK, you can drive the biggies.

There is a few that would dissagree with you about that.

Its easier to teach someone that has NOT got into all the bad habits that several years unsupervised car driving can cause, this also applies to "stepping up" ie: a couple of years in a small 4 wheeler before something bigger.

Start them in a big one, then mentor them properly, ie: the first couple of weeks out with an experienced driver followed by a couple of months with a minimum of one day a week supervised, as a matter of fact it would not hurt if all drivers had some form of occasional mentoring. And yes I would include car drivers in this.

---

Kevin

Start them in a big one, then mentor them properly, ie: the first couple of weeks out with an experienced driver followed by a couple of months with a minimum of one day a week supervised, as a matter of fact it would not hurt if all drivers had some form of occasional mentoring. And yes I would include car drivers in this.

Pilots are required to fly with an instructor on a regular basis just to be sure they stay sharp and to be sure to go over all the hope you never have to tactics.

---

Start them in a big one, then mentor them properly, ie: the first couple of weeks out with an experienced driver followed by a couple of months with a minimum of one day a week supervised, as a matter of fact it would not hurt if all drivers had some form of occasional mentoring. And yes I would include car drivers in this.

Pilots are required to fly with an instructor on a regular basis just to be sure they stay sharp and to be sure to go over all the hope you never have to tactics.

Exactly.

I have worked with firms where this is standard practice, although I am not overkeen on doing the mentoring.

It also gives us time to show them how to deal with firms like the one in this case.

There is nothing a company likes worse than getting on the VOSA watch list.

---

Kevin

Time and time again we read in the press of confused pensioners driving the wrong way up a motorway.

I blame that on RHD, very confusing for most of the world.

---

And we still have continental HGV drivers allowed into the country with no abilty to read UK road signs, no basic conversational level of English, and using out of date sat navs to get stuck up country lanes.

Don't forget all of those that are driving UK registered vehicles, but without these drivers we would not have anywhere near enough for our transport needs.

That was one of the reasons that the driving age was lowered, we aint got enough drivers.

The DVSA still drive around in vehicles badged up as VOSA.

Who now wants the job, the cost of getting your licences and other qualifications etc and then the problems of trying to get work without experence, which can all be lost for a couple of penalties (uninsurable), its a lot of money for an uncertain career.

Still give it a few years and it will be a computer behind the wheel:-)

---

Kevin

Time and time again we read in the press of confused pensioners driving the wrong way up a motorway.

I blame that on RHD, very confusing for most of the world.

But we like to pull up and shake hands with the person going the other way without having to get out. ;-)

Cheers.

Time and time again we read in the press of confused pensioners driving the wrong way up a motorway.

I blame that on RHD, very confusing for most of the world.

For a nation that defends its right to bear arms so vigorously, why do you compromise yourselves so much, by making it difficult to use a handgun when driving? Or conversely being able to show you are friendly by showing your right hand is empty. [edit] and doing what Wiggo says

---

Whilst there is no doubt HGV drivers of a young age have demonstrated their competence to physically handle their vehicle to a certain prescribed standard, at age 19/20 it is my opinion that they could lack the emotional maturity and experience needed on todays busy and congested roads. Therefore I would advocate putting the age back to 21, for most HGV vehicles, and maybe even 25 for the 18 wheelers and that ilk.
Car licence for 3 years, OK, pass a test at 21 you can drive an HGV. HGV licence for 4 years and 25, OK, you can drive the biggies.

There is a few that would dissagree with you about that.

I'm one of them.
Here in the NT it used to be that for motorcycles that once you had your learners permit, pretty much as soon as you felt you were good enough you could try for your P plates. Once on your P plates after 12 months on the restricted licence you were granted a full licence automatically (no longer a 250cc engine capacity limit). However if you were to take intermediate & advanced riding classes and you were assessed by the instructors as capable you could have unrestricted engine capacity while still on your P plates.
Since they have done away with that option with purely time based progressions, there are almost no riders taking the intermediate or advanced classes, There's no incentive to do so. I can assure you riding a 1100cc sports bikes is very different from riding a 250cc cruiser. And when riding a bike even small accidents are painful- no great metal cocoon to protect you- being aware of everything going on is essential to keeping alive. Rider courses are the best way to make people aware of this fact & teach them how to ride safely- ie with the maximum possible awareness.

And as Kevin mentioned, it's much easier to teach someone to do something right from scratch than it is to un-teach them years of bad habits.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

UK road transport in all its forms is a total mess, supposedly overseen by the Dept of Transport. Hah!

Totally agree & it will only get much worse.

For an efficient road haulage, one must have an organised distribution system. They are out there but as Rob showed on the train thread: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38400214, large vehicles can cause havoc in cities.

There are 2 issues with large vehicles:
1: Size
2: Weight

No matter how efficient engines get, the heavier the weight, the more fuel used & stopping distance grows which brings us to the biggest elephant in the room (at least in the UK at least)

It has been mooted that London intends to be diesel free by 2025.

That leaves 9 years to get replacement infrastructure in place.

Gas?
Electric?

Good luck with either :-)

UK road transport in all its forms is a total mess, supposedly overseen by the Dept of Transport. Hah!

Totally agree & it will only get much worse.

For an efficient road haulage, one must have an organised distribution system. They are out there but as Rob showed on the train thread: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38400214, large vehicles can cause havoc in cities.

There are 2 issues with large vehicles:
1: Size
2: Weight

No matter how efficient engines get, the heavier the weight, the more fuel used & stopping distance grows which brings us to the biggest elephant in the room (at least in the UK at least)

It has been mooted that London intends to be diesel free by 2025.

That leaves 9 years to get replacement infrastructure in place.

Gas?
Electric?

Good luck with either :-)

I read elsewhere about Trucks using Catenary, this is more of an experiment at this point, since a totally electric truck would need batteries to go on roads where Catenary isn't really practical, like on small streets in residential areas as an example.
On a curvy road. This is a Siemens demonstration in Germany.

In the rain.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I read elsewhere about Trucks using Catenary

A trolleybus; this time for freight, not people.
When everything old is new again.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

I read elsewhere about Trucks using Catenary

The infrastructure would cost a fortune.

I could see that causing major problems in the real world, do you hit some idiot that carves you up or do you turn your wheels and then block the road up because you aint got no power:-)

Batteries are not a viable alternative, too much weight = too little carrying capacity.

Also where do we get all the electricity from?

---

Kevin

I read elsewhere about Trucks using Catenary

The infrastructure would cost a fortune.

I could see that causing major problems in the real world, do you hit some idiot that carves you up or do you turn your wheels and then block the road up because you aint got no power:-)

Batteries are not a viable alternative, too much weight = too little carrying capacity.

Also where do we get all the electricity from?

Solar, Wind, and new battery technology for Solar and Wind power, or this one here.

A battery module built at Aquion’s plant in Pennsylvania.

The new flow battery design from a Harvard team uses organic (carbon-based) materials instead of a rare metal. Photo: Eliza Grinnell/ Harvard School of Engineering and Applied Sciences

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Also where do we get all the electricity from?

The power grid?

Here in Australia the power companies are getting all worked up over the adoption of solar & wind power, resulting in significant drops in demand for base load power and the decommissioning of many smaller & a couple of rather large power stations.
Such a transport system would give them enough demand to make keeping those stations economically viable.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

In the UK you have to apply for a car licence every 3 years after age 70, and confirm that you are still fit to drive, but it is little more than a formality. Ideally I would advocate a repeat driving test at 70, and every 5 years thereafter. But it would have to be centrally administered and there is no government money to fund it. Time and time again we read in the press of confused pensioners driving the wrong way up a motorway. The sytem is flawed if it allows that to happen.

In Illinois, a standard license between ages 21 and 80 is good for 4 years.

"How often do I have to be tested to keep my driver's license?
A driver is required to take a written test at least once every eight years if traffic convictions have occurred. Everyone must have his or her vision screened when applying for a renewal, with the exception of Safe Driver Renewals. All persons age 75 or older must take a driving test at each renewal. Drivers age 81-86 must have their licenses renewed every two years, while persons age 87 and older must renew annually."

My grandmother totaled her car at age 90 or 91. She did not get a new car or renew her license after that. The accident was her fault and I think she came to understand that after a while.

I had to take the written test this year because of a speeding ticket 4 years ago next week. (I got 1 wrong.)

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

in the USA, we are taught, at least I was back in the day................
That nobody was responsible for your personal safety than yourself.
Have seen some big rigs do some dangerous things/
But I have also see the sticker on the back of some of them that says................
Pass to my right and I cannot SEE you/.

In other words,. if I cross tracks, it is YOU i shall bury with the burden./

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

But I have also see the sticker on the back of some of them that says................
Pass to my right and I cannot SEE you/.

Here most trucks will have a sign "If you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you."

---

Grant
Darwin NT

I rode one time with My nephew in a semi truck, with the owners permission of course, We went from Colton where I drove to meet Him, then He and I departed to Las Vegas NV with a load of plants for a nursery, both of US slept in the extended cab, it was warm and not quite comfortable, the plants were loaded upon a flat bed, once that was unloaded in the morning, We went off to beyond N. Las Vegas NV to pick up a load of drywall for delivery to some other place in Southern California, once We got back to Colton, I headed home and He delivered His 2nd load, He did a good job driving, He has a Class A license here in CA, Me I have a Class C and M license, Class A means He can drive almost any vehicle that is permitted to be driven on CA roads and hwys. He now just drives locally for JB Hunt, the ride along was not when He worked for JB Hunt, just with a previous company, He said getting a local job was not easy, long distance is easier to get. He's really good at driving, and can park a 53' trailer in one shot, even in a narrow spot, His dad(My late brother) was very proud of Him, so am I. He has to have a physical every few years, Me I just have to renew My license, neither of US gets any tickets anymore, it's not worth it.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

But I have also see the sticker on the back of some of them that says................
Pass to my right and I cannot SEE you/.

Here most trucks will have a sign "If you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you."

Some have a sign on the left, "Passing side" and the sign on the right "Suicide"
Some of them have a line drawing of a car getting crushed in a right turn.

---