Transportation Safety 3

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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1888813 - Posted: 9 Sep 2017, 14:00:31 UTC - in response to Message 1888791.  

Or, on German Autobahn "Slow" - for many, many km there are no speed limits, and the Germans make full use of that and CRUISE at >200kph

So you wouldn't be exceeding the speed limit, as there isn't one.
However my understanding is you could still get done for Dangerous driving (or the German equivalent) if you tried going through fog, snow or heavy rain at such speeds. There's no specific limit, but you're expected to drive to the conditions.


That`s true of course.
Also racing is not allowed on public roads too.
We can just drive as fast as we want when no limit is given.
But nowadays we also have many partial speed limits.

The autobahn is constructed for it. A regular road is not.

Here there would have been two crimes, reckless driving and street racing. Both felonies.
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Message 1889064 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 15:00:30 UTC - in response to Message 1889040.  
Last modified: 10 Sep 2017, 15:11:30 UTC

There's a fascinating article in the current (9 September 2017) edition of New Scientist magazine. I can't quote all three pages, but highlights include:

"By 1907, there were almost 1,000 petrol-powered buses in London - more than in Berlin, New York and Paris put together."

"The average London bus was ordered off the road every six weeks." (because of their 'appalling noise or noxious fumes')

"Newspapers were full of angry letters from the great and the good." (selected example: 'the incessant roar and rattle and pestilential atmosphere and dust diffused by these monstrous vehicles.' Or, at a protest meeting: 'motor buses ought to run underground in main drains, like other nuisances.')

Enter - yes, in 1907 - electric buses (trade name: Electrobus). Within days, one of the largest petrol bus companies went bust. And the travelling public loved them - slower, but fume-free, cheaper, and less likely to break down.

Trouble is, the buses were fine - they could even exchange the 1.75 tonne batteries in three minutes, to extend range and running time - but the company which ran them was comprised of crooks and share swindlers. They banked £95,000 of investors capital, and scarpered - the buses never ran again.

And so the internal combustion engine came back from the dead, and we've been stuck with it ever since.

The full story is to be told in a book, "A Most Deliberate Swindle", by Mick Hamer, to be published at the end of the month. Unless that's a fraud as well...

Edit - "There's nothing new under the sun": the same story, told ten years earlier. http://www.economist.com/node/9465026
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Message 1889069 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 15:26:15 UTC

Electric Buses are back, from the DEAD, in Chicago, neat.

The CTA 700 series...
http://www.transitchicago.com/electricbus/default.aspx

Entered into service in late October 2014, these battery-powered buses provide customers with a cleaner, quieter ride that reduces fuel costs and significantly decreases emissions, which means improved air quality for Chicagoland.

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Message 1889092 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 17:31:00 UTC - in response to Message 1889090.  

I still have my doubts about all electric vehicles, especially public transport, but it is all green to go that way, and people are clambering on the bandwagon in an attempt to be all with it and trendy.

Electric vehicles have fewer moving parts to wear out or be tuned up, so their maintenance costs are far lower.
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Message 1889093 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 17:46:01 UTC

Well that's the theory....
In reality it depends on many things other than the number of moving parts - among them being the type of traction motor, the type of inverter, the control system, the type of transmission, the type and configuration of the battery and so on....
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Message 1889094 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 17:51:05 UTC - in response to Message 1889093.  

Tesla Model S Hits 300,000 Miles with less than $11,000 maintenance costs.
http://www.tesloop.com/blog/2017/8/30/tesla-model-s-hits-300k-miles-with-less-than-11k-maintenance-costs
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Message 1889098 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 18:00:23 UTC - in response to Message 1889093.  

Well that's the theory....
In reality it depends on many things other than the number of moving parts - among them being the type of traction motor, the type of inverter, the control system, the type of transmission, the type and configuration of the battery and so on....

The air conditioning is going to have more moving parts than the rest of the vehicle. Direct drive DC motors and all solid state control.
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Message 1889102 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 18:12:10 UTC

Even with "direct drive" there are transmission components in the drive train for example CV joints and bearing, all of which have finite lives, and may require some interventions (planned or unplanned). The DC direct drive only tells you that there is a DC motor driving directly onto drive shaft without a clutch, it does not tell you the presence or absence of a reduction gearbox. There most probable is one as most of these DC motors run at 12,000RPM - a bit more than your average V8's <5,000RPM, and a lot more than the road wheel's few hundred RPM.
Of course there are then the variations in "DC" motor - traditional with brushes, rotating field, permanent magnet rotor; some of which do need regular maintenance, some of which are all but maintenance free.
So don't just look at the sale brochures, which are gloriously glossy, but look at the technical data that is all too often hidden :-(
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Message 1889130 - Posted: 10 Sep 2017, 22:01:17 UTC - in response to Message 1889098.  
Last modified: 10 Sep 2017, 22:02:51 UTC

Well that's the theory....
In reality it depends on many things other than the number of moving parts - among them being the type of traction motor, the type of inverter, the control system, the type of transmission, the type and configuration of the battery and so on....

The air conditioning is going to have more moving parts than the rest of the vehicle. Direct drive DC motors and all solid state control.

I wish the a/c in My car worked fully, maybe one day, I've already put in about $300.00, and I'm thinking to get at the last leak or leaks that are under the dash, might involve another $300.00, I'd hope to be wrong, but it is a Ford dash, that requires special tools and such to remove, and then to reinstall. The last time I had a/c that fully worked, the a/c only lasted maybe 24 hours, back then the place that worked on the car a/c could not work in the car interior, and I've been busy elsewhere, but then there is not enough money chasing too many projects, My friends here understand that, but then anything that I can't do Myself costs money to do.
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Message 1889176 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 5:13:53 UTC

The air conditioning is going to have more moving parts than the rest of the vehicle. Direct drive DC motors and all solid state control.

Don't make me laugh - modern automotive air-con has only got about three moving parts - direct drive compressor, and two relief valves; or if you count the air side a couple of direct drive fans, a couple of circulation control vents.
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Message 1889207 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 11:28:56 UTC

Even with Li-xxx very high charge rates reduces the battery life.
In general it would appear that the optimum charge rates are in the region of 3-5 hours, which as you say isn't very good for an intensive public transport system as we see in London. This may be why the Boris Bus is a hybrid not a "pure electric"
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Message 1889211 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 11:58:52 UTC - in response to Message 1889205.  

Do individual London bus's run all day? - Unlikely, very inefficient.
Or are they like most places where the service is very frequent during rush hour, frequent during middle of the day, infrequent in the evening and the nothing after 10 pm?

If as I suspect, then some bus's could run from early morning till noon(ish), another set could run from noon(ish) till end of rush hour and some could just do a split just running during the rush hour and some of the early shift could manage a few hours in the evening and the odd services that run through the night.

So where's the problem with electric bus's, with some possibly having to be hybrid's.

The one service I know of near here, Mon - Fri, runs ½ hour service from very early morning, 7½ min service through rush hour, 15 min service during day, back to 7½ min service through tea time rush hour then ½ hour service till 10ish. On Fri the service is extended till midnight.
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Message 1889214 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 12:13:24 UTC

The vast majority of London buses run all day (~5am to midnight) and run pretty well full for much of the time. Early in the morning its a strange mixture of clubbers returning home and people going to work, then its the morning rush (from about 7am to 10am), then tourists and "grannies" take over until the evening rush, theatre and "out for the evening", finally the last bus home (and of course there are a number of all night buses which are quite entertaining to travel on. London buses really never stop!
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Message 1889218 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 12:24:30 UTC - in response to Message 1889211.  

When it was L.T.E both the buses & trains ran around the same timings. Start at approx. 04:00 & end approx. 01:00. A night service running one an hour would run on the major routes.

As route numbers, the buses would run all day. Noting the shift patterns as you stated, an individual bus would run at most 12 hours a day.
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Message 1889219 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 12:29:36 UTC

Do they recharge the bus, or just the battery? If they could swap batteries in three minutes with 1907 lead-acid technology (I believe a hydraulic lift was involved), surely we could revert to that.

I've seen videos of all-electric light aircraft being 'refuelled' by wheeling out a small trolley loaded with replacement battery packs.
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Message 1889221 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 12:43:27 UTC - in response to Message 1889219.  

Where would the replacement batteries be held? I see mileage being quoted. Where London is concerned, mileage is not the problem. An example: - I used to catch the No 38 bus at one end of it's terminals, Clapton Pond to get to WCDO(Royal Mail) approx. 05:20 & get to work approx. 05:50 for a 6am start. At the end of the 2nd delivery which all depended on how much mail I had & where the last delivery was (anywhere from 12:45 to 13:15), the journey home on the same route would be at least an hour & sometimes more.

Even outside the rush hours, Central London is congested.
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Message 1889223 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 13:04:44 UTC

Tesla mentions 5-30 minutes, for its charging, and to forget about swapping, but then Tesla uses Li battery tech, not lead-acid, but then Tesla makes their own batteries now.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/516876/forget-battery-swapping-tesla-aims-to-charge-electric-cars-in-five-minutes/

There is a new gas station going in nearby, the station has Tesla superchargers there, the tan water tank seems to be the bottom of a giant purple/white/chocolate chip ice cream cone too.

Achieving five-minute charges will require not only further improving the charging system, but also improving the interface with the electrical grid. As it is, only some places on the grid can handle 120-kilowatt charging. Drawing large amounts of power from the grid also incurs demand charges from the utility, increasing the cost of the system.

But Straubel says that Tesla plans to get around these problems by equipping supercharging stations with solar panels and batteries.

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Message 1889224 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 13:09:40 UTC

Now here's an article on charging a bus, in 3 minutes...

https://www.wired.com/2014/10/giant-charger-juices-electric-buses-three-minutes/


The Busbaar, introduced last month at the IAA conference, an annual trade show for commercial vehicles, looks something like the pantograph that pops up from high-speed electric trains to connect to overhead power lines. The Busbaar, though, comes down from a fixed position, hooking into a bus that parks beneath it, via a large copper bar installed on top of the vehicle.

The idea is to install it at stations where buses stop for a few minutes at a time, in high-traffic areas or at the end of the route. The bus will get in a quick charge, enough to top off the battery. When charging is complete, the pantograph pops back up into the Busbaar's stand and the bus gets going again.

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Message 1889225 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 13:19:50 UTC - in response to Message 1889224.  

Introduced in Gothenburg nearly a year earlier.
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Message 1889232 - Posted: 11 Sep 2017, 13:56:01 UTC - in response to Message 1889225.  

Introduced in Gothenburg nearly a year earlier.

Yes. The system Volvo Opportunity Charging has been tested for two years and they will start operating in next summer.
And in Göttingen Germany as well.
Looks to me that the system is still under evaluation though and that it is only suitable to inner city traffic. But you always have to start somewhere.
https://www.electricitygoteborg.se/en
Electric and electric hybrid buses are automatically charged at end bus stops. Charging is fast and normally there is no need for schedule changes.

• Volvo Opportunity Charging
• Roof mounted interface for conductive charging
• Fully automatic fast charging sequence
• Fast Charge interface installed on roof, 1.2 m rear of front axle
Fast Charge time 6 min/10 km range
Fast Charge power up to 300 kW
Maintenance charging (400 VAC) 4 h/day
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