Eric Korpela discusses alien contact.

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Message 1727574 - Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 16:21:27 UTC

SETI@home Director Eric Korpela discusses alien contact in the MeanwhileInTheFuture podcast episode entitled "Greetings".
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Message 1727581 - Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 16:40:37 UTC - in response to Message 1727574.  

Perhaps you want to talk to Michael Garrett, (Radio)Astronomer at Astron, who said Good night, sleep tight: advanced alien civilisations rare or absent in the local Universe.

Sensitive new telescopes now permit astronomers to detect the waste heat that is expected to be a signature of advanced alien civilisations that can harness enormous energies on the scale of the stellar output of their own galaxy. Professor Michael Garrett (ASTRON General & Scientific Director) has used radio observations of candidate galaxies to show that such advanced civilisations are very rare or entirely absent from the local Universe.

:-)
Jord

Ancient Astronaut Theorists suggest that in many ways, you can be considered an alien conspiracy!
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Message 1727583 - Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 16:53:46 UTC - in response to Message 1727581.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2015, 16:54:11 UTC

I'm not sure we have any reason to believe that Kardishev Type II or Type III civilizations are likely to exist to begin with.
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Message 1727623 - Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 19:57:27 UTC

If an artifact like that wound up in our backyard with all that information AND a message I would start believing in Santa Claus. Makes for good theater, anyway.
I have trouble with the reaction scenarios but that's just my opinion. I see us as still sitting around the fire in a cave that goes on forever, and suddenly we're aware there's somebody else in here with us.
This is something that would plug into the collective unconscious on too many levels to ever fade into the background of life. I think needing to know more would consume us.
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Message 1727778 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 5:13:50 UTC - in response to Message 1727583.  

I'm not sure we have any reason to believe that Kardishev Type II or Type III civilizations are likely to exist to begin with.


I know two individuals (humans), that are quite capable of sucking the energy out of a room, in one case, and out of a small crowd in the other. Would that make them type 0.2 and 0.3 respectively ?
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1728321 - Posted: 24 Sep 2015, 0:18:16 UTC

Finally had a chance to give it a listen, and it was quite good. Though I do have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Korpela in his dismissive "they wouldn't come here to conquer us". While I admit that there's a low likelihood, I think it is entirely probable for a species to evolve as a competitive, conquering, dominating one that might want to make us their pets at best.
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Message 1728403 - Posted: 24 Sep 2015, 4:01:52 UTC - in response to Message 1728321.  

Finally had a chance to give it a listen, and it was quite good. Though I do have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Korpela in his dismissive "they wouldn't come here to conquer us". While I admit that there's a low likelihood, I think it is entirely probable for a species to evolve as a competitive, conquering, dominating one that might want to make us their pets at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSOHO3GwEPg
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Message 1728875 - Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 19:34:21 UTC

Should possibly read Kardashev scale.
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Message 1728960 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 2:02:54 UTC - in response to Message 1728321.  

Finally had a chance to give it a listen, and it was quite good. Though I do have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Korpela in his dismissive "they wouldn't come here to conquer us". While I admit that there's a low likelihood, I think it is entirely probable for a species to evolve as a competitive, conquering, dominating one that might want to make us their pets at best.

How? Every mention of the possibility assumes FTL travel to make it a threat, and I have no reason to believe FTL travel exists.
Almost every invasion scenario I've heard falls apart when you take FTL out of the equation.
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Message 1729058 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 6:04:36 UTC - in response to Message 1728960.  

Finally had a chance to give it a listen, and it was quite good. Though I do have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Korpela in his dismissive "they wouldn't come here to conquer us". While I admit that there's a low likelihood, I think it is entirely probable for a species to evolve as a competitive, conquering, dominating one that might want to make us their pets at best.

How? Every mention of the possibility assumes FTL travel to make it a threat, and I have no reason to believe FTL travel exists.
Almost every invasion scenario I've heard falls apart when you take FTL out of the equation.


I thought the discussion assumed FTL, did it not? Or did you not listen to it?
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Message 1729095 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 7:24:13 UTC - in response to Message 1729058.  

I did and I don't recall that being assumed. I'll listen to it again.
The problem is that FTL is kind of like the supernatural - it's a package deal and once you open it all bets are off. You have to accept everything it implies, and with FTL that means every ancient astronaut theory has something to stand on and every UFO sighting should be taken seriously. It means there are no rules, and we can't do science without rules.
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Message 1729175 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 16:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 1729095.  

Start listening at 12:13 where the host of the show mentions that there are some people who think we shouldn't go looking for intelligent life because that life might not actually be friendly, and Dr. Korpela's response, paraphrased, is that he thinks there would likely be other planets with similar resources nearby to sustain life, rather than coming to wipe us out.

In the context of the question and discussion, the only way for Dr. Korpela's response to mean anything, would be that he is assuming FTL travel is possible, at least for the sake of argument.
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Message 1729217 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 18:33:18 UTC - in response to Message 1729175.  

Start listening at 12:13 where the host of the show mentions that there are some people who think we shouldn't go looking for intelligent life because that life might not actually be friendly, and Dr. Korpela's response, paraphrased, is that he thinks there would likely be other planets with similar resources nearby to sustain life, rather than coming to wipe us out.

In the context of the question and discussion, the only way for Dr. Korpela's response to mean anything, would be that he is assuming FTL travel is possible, at least for the sake of argument.

I really didn't get that inference from his response. He was addressing the likelihood of an invasion (which always assumes FTL), but it sounded like he was affirming that traveling to another system with more resources is simply possible and it is - you don't need FTL, just a LOT of patience.
But it's also mentioned right at the beginning that this probe we find came from another galaxy and that point is lost almost immediately. Dr. Korpela talks about looking back along it's path and identifying stars it may have come from.
It's hard to listen to these kind of programs because the focus is on the sensational aspects and the opportunity to teach real science is lost. People come away from it with their fantasies intact and that's not going to help if we ever find anything.
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Message 1729225 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 19:02:44 UTC - in response to Message 1729217.  
Last modified: 26 Sep 2015, 19:20:31 UTC

Start listening at 12:13 where the host of the show mentions that there are some people who think we shouldn't go looking for intelligent life because that life might not actually be friendly, and Dr. Korpela's response, paraphrased, is that he thinks there would likely be other planets with similar resources nearby to sustain life, rather than coming to wipe us out.

In the context of the question and discussion, the only way for Dr. Korpela's response to mean anything, would be that he is assuming FTL travel is possible, at least for the sake of argument.

I really didn't get that inference from his response. He was addressing the likelihood of an invasion (which always assumes FTL),


Well yes, that's the part I was specifically referring to. And I was elaborating that I wouldn't exclude a conquering species.
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Message 1729291 - Posted: 26 Sep 2015, 21:30:09 UTC - in response to Message 1729225.  

Well yes, that's the part I was specifically referring to. And I was elaborating that I wouldn't exclude a conquering species.

And I'm saying I would rather have heard Dr. Korpela explain that if anyone hears us and wants to invade, we're going to have tens of thousands of years to get ready for them.
When I read about Hawking saying the same thing it was depressing. He may think it's worth it to perpetuate a myth in order to sustain public interest, but there could be a steep price for doing that. What just happened in Mecca is only a sample of the power of panic and irrational fear. Add to that the existential shock of not being alone in the universe and you've got a serious problem.
At that point it's too late to explain the basics of relativity. We'll have already told people what might be coming next.
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Message 1729389 - Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 3:50:16 UTC - in response to Message 1729291.  

And I'm saying I would rather have heard Dr. Korpela explain that if anyone hears us and wants to invade, we're going to have tens of thousands of years to get ready for them.


We would first have to know we were heard before we could get ready.

When I read about Hawking saying the same thing it was depressing. He may think it's worth it to perpetuate a myth in order to sustain public interest, but there could be a steep price for doing that. What just happened in Mecca is only a sample of the power of panic and irrational fear. Add to that the existential shock of not being alone in the universe and you've got a serious problem.
At that point it's too late to explain the basics of relativity. We'll have already told people what might be coming next.


I think you're overblowing the discussion unnecessarily. The people who get that it was meant to be a fun, facetious discussion will never misinterpret what was said as something to spread panic and fear. Those that are already paranoid enough to believe it could be true are only going to look for confirmation bias in the first place, no matter who says what. I don't think you should get upset with Dr. Hawking, Dr. Korpela, or any other scientist for being willing to engage in fun, thoughtful discussion.
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Message 1729392 - Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 3:55:22 UTC - in response to Message 1729389.  

And I'm saying I would rather have heard Dr. Korpela explain that if anyone hears us and wants to invade, we're going to have tens of thousands of years to get ready for them.


We would first have to know we were heard before we could get ready.

When I read about Hawking saying the same thing it was depressing. He may think it's worth it to perpetuate a myth in order to sustain public interest, but there could be a steep price for doing that. What just happened in Mecca is only a sample of the power of panic and irrational fear. Add to that the existential shock of not being alone in the universe and you've got a serious problem.
At that point it's too late to explain the basics of relativity. We'll have already told people what might be coming next.


I think you're overblowing the discussion unnecessarily. The people who get that it was meant to be a fun, facetious discussion will never misinterpret what was said as something to spread panic and fear. Those that are already paranoid enough to believe it could be true are only going to look for confirmation bias in the first place, no matter who says what. I don't think you should get upset with Dr. Hawking, Dr. Korpela, or any other scientist for being willing to engage in fun, thoughtful discussion.

Fun????
This is fun???
I am afraid I disagree.
Unless Eric himself tells me otherwise, this is a very serious scientific project.
If I hear otherwise, I shall disconnect immediately.
Always remember.....kitties are all Angels with fur.
'Cat lives matter.'

Have made friends in this life.
Most were cats.
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Message 1729403 - Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 4:15:37 UTC - in response to Message 1729392.  

Fun????
This is fun???
I am afraid I disagree.
Unless Eric himself tells me otherwise, this is a very serious scientific project.
If I hear otherwise, I shall disconnect immediately.


Yes, Mr. Sattler, discussions can be fun.
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Message 1729407 - Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 4:21:33 UTC - in response to Message 1729403.  

Fun????
This is fun???
I am afraid I disagree.
Unless Eric himself tells me otherwise, this is a very serious scientific project.
If I hear otherwise, I shall disconnect immediately.


Yes, Mr. Sattler, discussions can be fun.

Of course they can, that is why there is an area called Politics.
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Message 1729429 - Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 4:45:19 UTC - in response to Message 1729403.  

Fun????
This is fun???
I am afraid I disagree.
Unless Eric himself tells me otherwise, this is a very serious scientific project.
If I hear otherwise, I shall disconnect immediately.


Yes, Mr. Sattler, discussions can be fun.

I was discussing the project in general, Mr. Ozz.
Always remember.....kitties are all Angels with fur.
'Cat lives matter.'

Have made friends in this life.
Most were cats.
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Message boards : News : Eric Korpela discusses alien contact.


 
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