Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#3)

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Message 1679561 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 13:55:29 UTC - in response to Message 1679513.  

Then someone argues that its capitalism that has lifted millions out of poverty, because 'the government stepped back'. Ehhh, not exactly. What you see in China, and Singapore and all those other countries that are quickly getting stronger economies is not that the government steps back. They have adopted hybrid forms of capitalism, that do actually involve a lot of state control and state protection. Its state capitalism, not free market capitalism.

Ah yes, China and the command economy. Ask the workers at Foxcon building those Apple products how perfect the system is. Ask the women in China that had to report to the sterilization center how perfect the system is. Oh, it is getting results, maybe better than greed, or is it just greed of naked power rather then greed of money? All you Americans, don't feel that can't happen here, ask anyone living here in WWII about a ration book.
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Message 1679570 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 14:36:21 UTC
Last modified: 14 May 2015, 14:50:40 UTC

In the end, this argument that 'Capitalism sucks, but everything else sucks more' is not a very good argument. If capitalism sucks, then get rid of it, because its not good to have a system that sucks. Okay, so any of the tried alternatives are worse. Cool, so you know what you don't have to try again. But surely there are more alternatives than communism and socialism. So yeah that column was worthless trash.

Martin... Re: Your Post above.

You are in a Fantasy world. As all persons of your 'thinking' are.

Where did I sat 'Every alternative' is bad. No Place of course.

Only in your 'thinking'.

Just some questions:

Is it true that some alternatives to Capitalism, are worse than Capitalism?

Of course they are/were. You disagree?

Where is the apology, or at least an acknowledgement, of the 10's of millions murdered, by Anti-Capitalist 'Solutions'?

No where.

I believe one of the greatest, and true, statements is 'Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains'.

Sorry to burst your, and others, unthinking, and worse, Ideological Beliefs. But being Anti-Capitalist, and Pro-Worker: Does not mean I should accept your Secular 'Religion'.

I do understand that your Cloistered, and Monastic Universe, will not understand.

Again: I do not apologize for committing Secular 'Blasphemy' against your, and others, 'Belief System'.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1679591 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 16:07:56 UTC - in response to Message 1679513.  

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aR6Eq.uqJAyA
Capitalism Is Worst System Except for the Rest

Thats a dumb column.

First fatal flaw, she argues that actually what went wrong wasn't because of free markets running rampant, its because the markets werent free enough. Noooo, it really would only have been a free market if the government had let the entire financial system collapse, as punishment for bad risks taken. Also interest shouldn't have been set by central bankers because thats interference with the free market, instead we should have just let it go, even if it resulted in out of control inflation or the economy would have just stagnated. And I'd like to hear those same people then, complaining about how the government didn't do enough to get the economy to its feet by manipulating interest rates.

Then she says one smart thing, namely that overseers have been napping. But wait, overseers? Isn't the sole job of an overseer to restrict the 'free market' to some degree to prevent system failure? Didn't you just write that the market wasn't free enough?

Well lets move on to ask the CATO institute about the free market, because obviously they have a non biased opinion about the economy. Oh right, they are funded by the Koch Brothers and have a decisively Libertarian approach to economics. It should then come as no surprise that the guy blames the government for market failures, because it totally makes sense to blame the government for banks screwing up.

Then someone argues that its capitalism that has lifted millions out of poverty, because 'the government stepped back'. Ehhh, not exactly. What you see in China, and Singapore and all those other countries that are quickly getting stronger economies is not that the government steps back. They have adopted hybrid forms of capitalism, that do actually involve a lot of state control and state protection. Its state capitalism, not free market capitalism.

And then comes a bit of complaining about how the government is all about political self interest, incapable of checking the markets and how capitalism supposedly results in growth and freedom. While that growth bit is true, capitalism does not produce freedom. Why would it? The implicit assumption that free markets result in free people is a delusion that has little actual evidence to support it. Furthermore, while capitalism produces growth, it also produces massive amounts of inequality, which is exactly the problem. '

In the end, this argument that 'Capitalism sucks, but everything else sucks more' is not a very good argument. If capitalism sucks, then get rid of it, because its not good to have a system that sucks. Okay, so any of the tried alternatives are worse. Cool, so you know what you don't have to try again. But surely there are more alternatives than communism and socialism. So yeah that column was worthless trash.

Excellent points.

I was also going to mention how Capitalism relies on the undervalued work of women. Jobs like caring for children, the sick and the elderly that underpin civilisation and contribute highly to a countries GDP are not valued or even accounted for in Capitalism. There is also no accounting the many other externalised costs that do not make things better for people. The obvious destruction of the planet springs to mind. Many systems before have not been great for people, but not one has come this close to destroying the very ecosystem we depend on to live.
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Message 1679649 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 19:10:25 UTC
Last modified: 14 May 2015, 19:10:36 UTC

Mad Max: Fury Road enrages Men's Rights Activists who claim they are being duped into watching 'feminist propaganda'

I was already looking forward to seeing this movie tomorrow. Now I am even more excited! I shall let you all know if it is indeed Feminist Propaganda as promised.
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Message 1679656 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 19:32:01 UTC - in response to Message 1679649.  
Last modified: 14 May 2015, 19:33:42 UTC

Mad Max: Fury Road enrages Men's Rights Activists who claim they are being duped into watching 'feminist propaganda'

I was already looking forward to seeing this movie tomorrow. Now I am even more excited! I shall let you all know if it is indeed Feminist Propaganda as promised.

As always:

One side is right, and the other wrong.

Until one matures, and understands, regarding many things:

One side may only be partially right, and the same for the other.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Message 1679703 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 22:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 1679649.  
Last modified: 14 May 2015, 22:30:43 UTC

Mad Max: Fury Road enrages Men's Rights Activists who claim they are being duped into watching 'feminist propaganda'

I was already looking forward to seeing this movie tomorrow. Now I am even more excited! I shall let you all know if it is indeed Feminist Propaganda as promised.

Gosh, dumb me just figured they put a pretty girl on the screen longer to make male teenage hormone bombs spend more to see all the flesh. Never would have thought of it as feminist propaganda.
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Message 1679704 - Posted: 14 May 2015, 22:32:41 UTC - in response to Message 1679591.  

Many systems before have not been great for people, but not one has come this close to destroying the very ecosystem we depend on to live.
Have any of those other systems been in use long enough to have a chance to do so?
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Message 1679735 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 0:29:40 UTC - in response to Message 1679704.  

Many systems before have not been great for people, but not one has come this close to destroying the very ecosystem we depend on to live.
Have any of those other systems been in use long enough to have a chance to do so?

Let's then go back, before the Industrial Age.

A wonderful disease free, abundant food, long lived Human's time.

Sounds great!
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Message 1679764 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 2:53:42 UTC

From the Guardian newspaper:

"Study shows that modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, suggesting inequality was an aberration that came with the advent of agriculture"

Sex equality can explain the unique social structure of hunter-gatherer bands
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Message 1679775 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 3:35:30 UTC - in response to Message 1679764.  

From the Guardian newspaper:

"Study shows that modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, suggesting inequality was an aberration that came with the advent of agriculture"

Sex equality can explain the unique social structure of hunter-gatherer bands

Would not be the first time that it has been suggested that the idle time created by agriculture is the causal agent of greed.

The question then would be: which is worse, no free time or greed?
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Message 1679790 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 4:19:57 UTC - in response to Message 1679126.  

That is a reasonable point of view. This "baby oven" business is two sided. What about a genuinely in love couple that can't have children because the wife cannot conceive. They go down the route of IVF with a surrogate mother. The surrogate mother may do it out of compassion for the couple, she may do it for the money. Is it wrong in that case given the outcome?


I.V.F for profit is wrong . However paying the medical bills i think is ok just not paying a surrogate is where you go wrong and should not be allowed .
Most woman would be able to find a family member prepared to help a couple this way .

This i belieave is how it is here in Australia we have very strick laws about this thing . Surrogacy is not allowed unless they are family or there is no "Fee" charged . It's caused people to go overseas to do it and has even lead to 1 child being left in Thailand because it was born with Down syndrome .

I belieave they are looking at this problem now .

Women forced to sell their bodies on the street as prostitutes just to eat and to survive is totally abhorrent to me, but it has gone on since biblical times,


Yes i agree when it's done to feed a drug habit or under threats or forced bondage then it's borders on crime .

since biblical times, and I think it always will do. Then again we have the high society women that are classed as "escorts" that make very serious money and actually enjoy the lifestyle that it gives them. What about them, are they being exploited or are they in turn exploiting others themselves?


If a woman wishes to work in the oldest trade there is what's wrong with that . Here it's legal to have a Lic'd Brothel . There are health regulations , workers comp, and standard's . It pays good and as for them using men , not all there clients are men ! and they are only providing a service SO LONG AS IT'S THERE CHOISCE good luck to them at least there not marring a guy for money which is far worse and dishonest at best than outdated attitudes .
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Message 1679792 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 4:29:34 UTC - in response to Message 1679357.  

I think you are forgetting that everyday there are people who are trying to take away all these rights that we fought for. Not one of these things occurred because 'benevolent capitalism' gave them too us. Pretty much all of them were fought for and in a lot of cases people died so we could have them. Exploitation has gotten harder because people stood up and said "no, this is wrong".

Very true ES99.
Protecting democracy and struggle for equality is something you have to do every day.
Remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.


+100

especially the last part
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Message 1679794 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 4:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 1679523.  

Personally to eradicate a majority of poverty over the world I think that all companies on the Stock Market should all be force to buy their shareholders out and the Stock Market should be closed down.

The Stock Market is where the worst and greediest in human nature reside and once they're cut out of the loop the world will eventually be a better place to live in (though they will be poorer).

If an important infrastructure company can't do it then the government should take it over for the people.

It's really time for us all to bite the bullet and address this issue world wide as it is bad for the better good of the majority whether you like it or not, it will certainly have an impact on the rich in the end (which they won't like) and the poor will eventually not be poor (though they will likely suffer the most during transition, but they win in the end).

Greedy capitalists and investors are who are making the world the way it currently is, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer (prove me wrong).

P.S. You can blame the French for starting this foolish crap in the first place as they invented it back in the 12th century before other western countries (mainly the U.S.A.) took it to the ridiculous.


Wiggo i noticed they just ran straight pass that .
Must think where all a bunch of Socialists down here with them comments mate .
SHUT THE STOCK MARKET .......shock horror . Na just restrik the speculation on Futures , out Law Derivatives


DEFINITION OF 'DERIVATIVE'
A security whose price is dependent upon or derived from one or more underlying assets. The derivative itself is merely a contract between two or more parties. Its value is determined by fluctuations in the underlying asset. The most common underlying assets include stocks, bonds, commodities, currencies, interest rates and market indexes. Most derivatives are characterized by high leverage.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/derivative.asp#ixzz3aBAooCzA
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The G.F.C was made much worse because of this type of trading . About time we learnt to start spending our money wisely
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Message 1679800 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 5:07:01 UTC - in response to Message 1679561.  
Last modified: 15 May 2015, 5:08:13 UTC

Then someone argues that its capitalism that has lifted millions out of poverty, because 'the government stepped back'. Ehhh, not exactly. What you see in China, and Singapore and all those other countries that are quickly getting stronger economies is not that the government steps back. They have adopted hybrid forms of capitalism, that do actually involve a lot of state control and state protection. Its state capitalism, not free market capitalism.

Ah yes, China and the command economy. Ask the workers at Foxcon building those Apple products how perfect the system is. Ask the women in China that had to report to the sterilization center how perfect the system is. Oh, it is getting results, maybe better than greed, or is it just greed of naked power rather then greed of money? All you Americans, don't feel that can't happen here, ask anyone living here in WWII about a ration book.


Foxcon ....big YES to DO NOT BUY list that means APPLE

Sterilization ? they have stopped that now there One Child polisy is still there but it's been changed . More human now , the parents are fined very heaverly , I understand why they have it too , 1,500,000,000 people so i don't consider it a communist or socialist thing , more some thing they have to do .

Bit like Kangaroo's in the wild they get so big there populations , first big drought they all start dieing . China just has tooooo many people

As for WW ii let's hope things don't get that bad or go that far again
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Message 1679807 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 5:31:18 UTC - in response to Message 1679591.  
Last modified: 15 May 2015, 5:33:01 UTC

[/quohttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aR6Eq.uqJAyA
Capitalism Is Worst System Except for the Rest

Thats a dumb column.

First fatal flaw, she argues that actually what went wrong wasn't because of free markets running rampant, its because the markets werent free enough. Noooo, it really would only have been a free market if the government had let the entire financial system collapse, as punishment for bad risks taken. Also interest shouldn't have been set by central bankers because thats interference with the free market, instead we should have just let it go, even if it resulted in out of control inflation or the economy would have just stagnated. And I'd like to hear those same people then, complaining about how the government didn't do enough to get the economy to its feet by manipulating interest rates.

Then she says one smart thing, namely that overseers have been napping. But wait, overseers? Isn't the sole job of an overseer to restrict the 'free market' to some degree to prevent system failure? Didn't you just write that the market wasn't free enough?

Well lets move on to ask the CATO institute about the free market, because obviously they have a non biased opinion about the economy. Oh right, they are funded by the Koch Brothers and have a decisively Libertarian approach to economics. It should then come as no surprise that the guy blames the government for market failures, because it totally makes sense to blame the government for banks screwing up.

Then someone argues that its capitalism that has lifted millions out of poverty, because 'the government stepped back'. Ehhh, not exactly. What you see in China, and Singapore and all those other countries that are quickly getting stronger economies is not that the government steps back. They have adopted hybrid forms of capitalism, that do actually involve a lot of state control and state protection. Its state capitalism, not free market capitalism.

And then comes a bit of complaining about how the government is all about political self interest, incapable of checking the markets and how capitalism supposedly results in growth and freedom. While that growth bit is true, capitalism does not produce freedom. Why would it? The implicit assumption that free markets result in free people is a delusion that has little actual evidence to support it. Furthermore, while capitalism produces growth, it also produces massive amounts of inequality, which is exactly the problem. '

In the end, this argument that 'Capitalism sucks, but everything else sucks more' is not a very good argument. If capitalism sucks, then get rid of it, because its not good to have a system that sucks. Okay, so any of the tried alternatives are worse. Cool, so you know what you don't have to try again. But surely there are more alternatives than communism and socialism. So yeah that column was worthless trash.

Excellent points.

I was also going to mention how Capitalism relies on the undervalued work of women. Jobs like caring for children, the sick and the elderly that underpin civilisation and contribute highly to a countries GDP are not valued or even accounted for in Capitalism. There is also no accounting the many other externalised costs that do not make things better for people. The obvious destruction of the planet springs to mind. Many systems before have not been great for people, but not one has come this close to destroying the very ecosystem we depend on to live.
____________te][quote]

I was also going to mention how Capitalism relies on the undervalued work of women. Jobs like caring for children, the sick and the elderly that underpin civilisation and contribute highly to a countries GDP are not valued or even accounted for in Capitalism.


you did meantion it so!

caring for children ! is it not a 2 person job caring for your kids !putting a price on that or looking after your parents is the wrong way to look at those things .
Women haven't had good pay and things in the past but now in some Country's it's changing , we are all guilty of stuffing the plants up it's not only men .
Unions and standing up for yourself does help . Women are to afraid to ask for a pay rise or better conditions to work , Capitalism is bad if we let it be bad . AKA: FREE MARKETS , FREE EVERYTHING , NO UNIONS , blah , blah blah !!
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Message 1679873 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 8:09:05 UTC

caring for children ! is it not a 2 person job caring for your kids !

You are on dangerous ground saying that around here!

Generally speaking I think most people would agree that a stable family unit, consisting of strong role models of a father and mother and children, that are not in financial jeopardy is a classic way of life. But these days how often is that happening in reality? There are more single parent families than ever. Sometimes because the father has done a runner, and other times because the kids are better off without an abusive father or indeed mother.

You can't generalise anymore with the 2.4 kids.
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Message 1679882 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 8:28:44 UTC - in response to Message 1679873.  

caring for children ! is it not a 2 person job caring for your kids !

You are on dangerous ground saying that around here!


No chris i think even single parents need help and know they need help , can't work and look after the kids at the same time . We put a price on nanny's and day care but there perfect strangers not family you can't put a price on family is what i was getting at . Ess said it's not valude but i beg to differ .Depends where you live as to your work conditions and pay rates .

Nursing home , good money for nursing assistant grade 5 geriatric very good money .

Ess argument is becoming less true , the glass ceiling is cracking these days , still we are not queit there .
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Message 1680013 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 15:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 1679873.  

caring for children ! is it not a 2 person job caring for your kids !


Erm..
rOZZ
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Message 1680016 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 15:40:44 UTC
Last modified: 15 May 2015, 15:41:45 UTC

Sometimes children need to be removed from an abusive environment. In other cases there can be a tragic accident and a single parent is left to do the best that they can. Yes of course two parents are best, but this world of ours in real life doesn't always provide that. Julie has my support which she knows.
"none so blind as those who will not see"
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Don't drink water, that stuff rusts pipes!



You are making Proof out of Logic, by just being dubious!

{Bluestar)
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Message 1680020 - Posted: 15 May 2015, 15:48:24 UTC

Thank you Chris.
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Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#3)


 
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