The ITER project in France is an international project. It has so far cost 15 billion dollars and is going to cost another 10 billions without producing a single watt of power. It is just a "proof of concept" experiment in plasma confinement according to the Tokamak line of design. Another experiment, of much lesser cost, is being built in Moscow by an Italian-Russian cooperative effort. It should cost 250 million dollars. It is a design along the ALCATOR machine built at MIT by Bruno Coppi and is called IGNITOR.
Tullio

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Nuclear fission isn't clean, nuclear fusion, if mastered, will be clean.

True, that's what I meant.. Thanx for the rectification Bob.

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What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
Tullio

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The ITER project in France is an international project. It has so far cost 15 billion dollars and is going to cost another 10 billions without producing a single watt of power. It is just a "proof of concept" experiment in plasma confinement according to the Tokamak line of design. Another experiment, of much lesser cost, is being built in Moscow by an Italian-Russian cooperative effort. It should cost 250 million dollars. It is a design along the ALCATOR machine built at MIT by Bruno Coppi and is called IGNITOR.
Tullio

I first read about ITER in a New Yorker article. Seems like a frustrating project to be working on.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
Tullio

Hence the need for helium 3. If what I read is correct the use of helium 3 greatly reduces the output of unwanted neutrons and will allow a much longer life of the containment vessel. But it is still true that you can't get something for nothing.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I've read on La Repubblica paper that scientists from the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory are now trying to detect cold neutrinos left by the Big Bang by an experiment called PTOLEMY. Maybe they have lost hope in nuclear fusion experiments where they developed a Tokamak called Adiabatic Toroidal Compressor and want to do research in cosmology and astrophysics.
Tullio

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What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
Tullio

That's why the Sun doesn't have "walls"? :)

Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?

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Might, Courage, Vision, Sincerity. Simplicity is beauty!
May the Force and farces be with you!

....

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Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?

Sure, we just have to build a reactor several times the size of Jupiter. ;) Problem is, gravity is extremely weak unless huge masses are involved.

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Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?

Sure, we just have to build a reactor several times the size of Jupiter. ;) Problem is, gravity is extremely weak unless huge masses are involved.

Was just pondering earlier how the asteroid belt never formed a planet due to Jupiters gravitational field..

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Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.

Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.

5 million miles would be close. 455 LY is more like 5865696 million miles. Either way we won't be getting that far out for a very very long time, if ever.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Yes: the confluence of necessary conditions for life like ours to form is likely to be extremely rare in my estimation.

The fact that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Galaxy and a hundred billion galaxies will allow one to surmise that there are, has been or will be other intelligent civilizations in our Universe.

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed.

Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.

We found quite a few...& so much closer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets#Table
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Why would you say that Chris?

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rOZZ
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Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.

Same here.

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rOZZ
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Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.

Also, we would have to shag along, like all other Facebookers! :D

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Whether we are alone in the universe in the sense of other beings similar to us in sentience is perhaps humankind's greatest question. It has the highest level of curiosity and religious significance.

Whether we are alone in the universe in the sense of other beings similar to us in sentience is perhaps humankind's greatest question. It has the highest level of curiosity and religious significance.

Unexplainable phenomena tend to wake the two above underlined terms.

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