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Observation of CreditNew Impact
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Author | Message |
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Jord Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. All of the people flaming Dr. Anderson in this thread, when will you email him? Go on, see if he cares then. |
HAL9000 Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 6534 Credit: 196,805,888 RAC: 57 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?2415-BOINC-DA-admits-CreditNew-is-really-a-random-number-generator SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[ |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14679 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. LOL, I'd almost forgotten starting that thread. 18 months ago, even. |
bill Send message Joined: 16 Jun 99 Posts: 861 Credit: 29,352,955 RAC: 0 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. Email to Dr. Anderson Dear Dr. Anderson, Awaiting answer. |
TBar Send message Joined: 22 May 99 Posts: 5204 Credit: 840,779,836 RAC: 2,768 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. Richard, considering this statement from Beta, "...it appears (shockingly) that CreditNew is actually working correctly as far as the CPU apps are concerned." Has anyone considered part of the problem could be the much larger percentage of work being accomplished by GPUs today as compared to when CreditNew was implemented? A few years ago, the percentage of work being done by the CPUs was much larger than today. This could explain why the thought that results from the slower machines would 'correct' the situation is not working as expected. This is another reason I suspect more results from the slower devices is needed. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
A few weeks ago Einstein released a new type of unit . It takes 10X longer to do . But unlike this project that poject respects it's users and has a system that rewards people and says thanks you now get 10X the f$^king credit . Those of you that have read my posts should no I walk the walk and talk the talk . This project has been run like a joke . Project going down 3 times a week bandwith at 12-20 kb which was not just a joke but more than that and now this . Time is running out and so is my patients . In seti classic there was as many units being done as to day , and yet we have computers 500 times faster . I am sorry to all the good people that have worked tirelessly to try to improve the amount of work this project does and to be rewarded with a credit system that is now hampering new users from joining is not good . Thank you to the people that have done there best to make this project better . The Lunatics team As for those in there Ivory tower ....................... Welcome to the new world where you can contact important people in even higher towers . |
bill Send message Joined: 16 Jun 99 Posts: 861 Credit: 29,352,955 RAC: 0 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. I got a reply from Dr. Anderson. I hereby retract my previous statement about him not caring. While he didn't give me his express permission to reprint his email, he did say that if he didn't care for the Seti@home project he wouldn't have worked on it for the last 15 years without pay (emphasis mine). Now where that leaves you folks with your credit problems, I don't know because he didn't say. But at least we know now that he is aware some people think there is a problem. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51478 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
It's very easy to vent about it on the forums here. Chances are very high that Dr. Anderson doesn't read it anyway. I've yet to see the first person post that he's emailed Dr. Anderson personally. I've yet to see someone post about it on the BOINC development email list. All I gotta say about that is the old adage that 'actions speak louder than words'. In other words, I'll believe that he cares when I see that he has made some corrections and awarded credits start to return to previous levels. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
tbret Send message Joined: 28 May 99 Posts: 3380 Credit: 296,162,071 RAC: 40 |
Far out, man. I'm trying to remember what my RAC was when I was crunching Classic SETI units on my Cyrix 120, the 486-33 and AMD 586s... for over ten years-worth of CPU time. How did we used to keep score? Anybody got any idea? Anybody know how I can add that to my current points total? IT'S IMPORTANT DANG IT !!! If not, well... anybody got any Geritol? |
Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36838 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 |
Personally I can't see Dr. Anderson paying any more attention to this than he did 18 months ago when he 1st introduced CreditNew and everyone's RAC's plummetted back then as it is again now. Cheers. |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Far out, man. It was done by work unit. I just found my certificate thanking me for my 1000th work unit from Jan 2002. Somewhere I have the paper work saying that I had just over 5000 classic work units done before they started the the cobblestone thing. I really dont care what they give out for credit. Im here for the idea of looking for the Signal untill they pull the plug. And for those who think the project is so bad, Why are you still here then? [/quote] Old James |
Lionel Send message Joined: 25 Mar 00 Posts: 680 Credit: 563,640,304 RAC: 597 |
Note: Data for last two days added and revised running average. Thankyou I’ve had a look at the data around v7 and v6 WUs and below is a quick observational analysis of my data. Under v6, I was roughly averaging 100 credits per Work Unit (WU). Under v7, it seems that the average is sitting around 75-80 credits per WU. In looking at run-times and taking the outliers out, cpu run time was around 600-660 seconds (10-11 minutes) per WU for v6, and appears to be around 800-1100 seconds (13+ to 18+ minutes) for a v7 WU. CPU time seems to have gone up by a factor of 2-3 from 50-60 seconds for v6 to 90-180 seconds for v7. So doing a quick Back of the Envelope (10.5/15.83=0.66) shows that from a WU processing/throughput capability, I can expect to do roughly 66% of the volume of WUs that I did before (for example, if I was doing 400 WUs per day under v6, I can now expect to do around 264 WUs per day under v7). Looking at the impact on credit gives 0.66*0.775 = 0.514 or 51.4%. In essence I can expect that daily credit for v7 will drop to circa 51% of what I was getting under v6. I am aware of the comments around “that the system needs time to settle down†and that “it thinks all the WUs coming back at the moment are easy, hence the low credit†however, if the system continues to perform as is, then I can expect to see no change from current trajectory. To test the assumption, I have looked at credit per day for the last 20 days. Below is the data: [list=] 2013.05.16 – 244,130 2013.05.17 – 220,168 2013.05.18 – 231,098 2013.05.19 – 226,353 2013.05.20 – 224,723 2013.05.21 – 210,477 2013.05.22 - 0 2013.05.23 – 431,485 2013.05.24 – 229,312 2013.05.25 – 228,767 2013.05.26 – 239,021 2013.05.27 – 231,271 2013.05.28 – 231,050 2013.05.29 – 0 2013.05.30 – 392,635 2013.05.31 – 209,556 2013.06.01 – 123,072 2013.06.02 – 94,061 2013.06.03 – 102,333 2013.06.04 – 99,896 2013.06.05 - 65,653 2013.06.06 - 112,209 2013.06.07 - 102,538 2013.06.08 - 110,760 2013.06.09 - 89,757 2013.06.10 - 96,018 2013.06.11 - 111,653 2013.06.12 - 90,091 [/list] The average daily credit prior to migration was 221,878. Following migration on 1st June, the average daily credit is showing as 99,836 which is circa 44.9% of the previous daily average under v6. I suspect that many are starting to see their RAC decline, but as RAC is a lagging indicator and is currently composed of v6 and v7 numbers, the end effect is being masked. As this mask evaporates and RAC asymptotes towards the underlying v7 values, I suspect that the grumblings in the forum may get louder. Comment on comments Whilst some are focusing just on credit, the issue is not about credit as such. It’s about recognition. There are many distributed computing projects to which people contribute resources. The manner and means in which those projects recognise individual contribution is through a system that is based on and allocates credits. Some projects choose to recognise a person’s contribution more than other projects, thus they grant a higher credit rate per contribution for that project. In short, credits are effectively an indication of a person’s contribution to a project. In the case of "the New Credit System" implemented by Seti, recognition of personal contribution has been reduced. At present, the indication is that recognition for effort is effectively half that of what it was prior to the new recognition system being employed. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51478 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Far out, man. I don't think the project is so bad....LOL. You all know why I am here. And I have stated that I shall remain here doing what the kitties do best come hell or high water. You all know I will. Credits to me were always kind of a 'reward' for sticking around and contributing time, money, and effort to participate. There is a line in an old Fleetwood Mac song.....'you make loving fun'. Well, credits kinda make crunching fun. RAC was always a kind of barometer I used to monitor the performance of my crunching farm. What did that last upgrade do? Is that new app helping much? What did I gain by adding that extra card to rig xyz? I am lost now. I don't have a hoot or a holler what the new apps have done for me. Or the last rig upgrade I did. Or the one I will probably do this weekend. And THAT, although I am certainly here for the science, does take some of the 'fun' out of it for me. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
And for the most part the other projects have dead forums. They cant even compete with Seti@home lively discussions. And dont tell me they never have problems either, Ive seen Milkyway and Einstein down at the same time we have been down on more than one instance. Screw RAC, Every one of us is in the same boat when it comes to RAC. You want to jump ship then do it. [/quote] Old James |
(banished: ID 9878057) Send message Joined: 19 May 13 Posts: 156 Credit: 527,760 RAC: 0 |
Touting the Seti@home lively discussions and then telling people to jump ship because their discussions are too lively seems a bit irrational. If you're feeling emotional about what is an intellectual endeavor a self time out may be in order. Many here who criticise CreditNew do so in a rational manner with no taint of rancor. |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Touting the Seti@home lively discussions and then telling people to jump ship because their discussions are too lively seems a bit irrational. Read the entire thread. See how many jokers actaully lambast the project and the Admins. If you want to leave beacuse of Credits then leave for the greener pastures. Im sure there is a project that will kiss your butt with sweet credit. And many here, Do have rancor about credit new. [/quote] Old James |
(banished: ID 9878057) Send message Joined: 19 May 13 Posts: 156 Credit: 527,760 RAC: 0 |
Read the entire thread. See how many jokers actaully lambast the project and the Admins. If you want to leave beacuse of Credits then leave for the greener pastures. Im sure there is a project that will kiss your butt with sweet credit. Seeing as you're a mod can we assume that you speak for the Admins? |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51478 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Touting the Seti@home lively discussions and then telling people to jump ship because their discussions are too lively seems a bit irrational. And many are unhappy about it, but will stick around for the more valid reasons for doing so. But are still not overjoyed about CreditScrewed's obvious failure to deal with a major change in the project in a timely manner. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Read the entire thread. See how many jokers actaully lambast the project and the Admins. If you want to leave beacuse of Credits then leave for the greener pastures. Im sure there is a project that will kiss your butt with sweet credit. No I speak for myself. And If you have a problem with my reposne, hit that red X and report me. [/quote] Old James |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Touting the Seti@home lively discussions and then telling people to jump ship because their discussions are too lively seems a bit irrational. I know that Mark, We both have been around long enough to know that when ever a new version comes out this credit crap happens. But I get sick of hearing how bad Seti is and the admins dont care, and other projects pay better credits. [/quote] Old James |
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