Jean, first your use of capitals has drawn attention to yourself as being very rude and impatient. Don not shout, you will find a quiet word will be listened to, but a shout is the best way to be ignored around here.

Second Dr Anderson is not the person to contact about a tape that is "stuck". This tape has been known about for a couple of weeks and I dares say there is a reason for it being allowed to clog up a splitter for so long. Like most around here I too would like to know "Why"? But I will be patient. And maybe someday someone will tell us, and hopefully that tape will finally be split and vanish from our screens.

As it is some new tapes have been loaded, and there are more tasks being split for distribution.

Rob, re your comment, stop being so precious. The person is obviously feeling frustrated so understand it, be sympathetic and help. Telling them that are shouting and reacting as you have done does not engender their understanding or willingness to be less "in your face" (if I can use that phrase loosely). If you can't respond through inflaming the situation, then maybe you shouldn't be responding at all, let alone being a moderator.

cheers

Lionel:
As Rob points out, the issue of the stuck 20jn12ac tape has been well-discussed in this and other threads. Management does know about it. It is a minor problem, not a sign of an impending server crash or other pending catastrophe.

The intentional use of all-caps, for whatever reason, IS considered shouting, and can be very inflamatory, and both Jean and you know that. I think Rob's response was calm, measured, and appropriate to the situation. Much more so than what I was thinking whan I first read both Jean's posts and your response to Rob. But in my own defense, it's been 100-110F here for the past 10 days, and I've been out in it for 10-12 hours each day selling Fireworks for our Independence Day celebrations, so I'm a little short-fused right now. (8{)

And as has been pointed out repeatedly in much worse situations than this, here at Seti@Home, patience (and civility) is not just a virtue, it is a Requirement.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

Couldn't agree with you more Lionel, in this case.

Not just Rob though... a lot of the 'locals' do this all the time. Especially in the news thread. And especially at forum newcomers with a handful of posts under their belt.

It's bad for business.
It accomplishes absolutely... nothing.
Of the many ways to reply to someone (or not) this has to be the least well thought out.

Who was it that said something along the lines of 'you gotta be crazy to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result'?

I've got a few OCDs myself and can understand the need to keep things tidy... But this one just ain't gonna happen. Ever. So maybe it's time to quit tryin'.

Jean, first your use of capitals has drawn attention to yourself as being very rude and impatient. Don not shout, you will find a quiet word will be listened to, but a shout is the best way to be ignored around here.

Second Dr Anderson is not the person to contact about a tape that is "stuck". This tape has been known about for a couple of weeks and I dares say there is a reason for it being allowed to clog up a splitter for so long. Like most around here I too would like to know "Why"? But I will be patient. And maybe someday someone will tell us, and hopefully that tape will finally be split and vanish from our screens.

As it is some new tapes have been loaded, and there are more tasks being split for distribution.

Rob, re your comment, stop being so precious. The person is obviously feeling frustrated so understand it, be sympathetic and help. Telling them that are shouting and reacting as you have done does not engender their understanding or willingness to be less "in your face" (if I can use that phrase loosely). If you can't respond through inflaming the situation, then maybe you shouldn't be responding at all, let alone being a moderator.

cheers

Lionel:
As Rob points out, the issue of the stuck 20jn12ac tape has been well-discussed in this and other threads. Management does know about it. It is a minor problem, not a sign of an impending server crash or other pending catastrophe.

The intentional use of all-caps, for whatever reason, IS considered shouting, and can be very inflamatory, and both Jean and you know that. I think Rob's response was calm, measured, and appropriate to the situation. Much more so than what I was thinking whan I first read both Jean's posts and your response to Rob. But in my own defense, it's been 100-110F here for the past 10 days, and I've been out in it for 10-12 hours each day selling Fireworks for our Independence Day celebrations, so I'm a little short-fused right now. (8{)

And as has been pointed out repeatedly in much worse situations than this, here at Seti@Home, patience (and civility) is not just a virtue, it is a Requirement.

+1

---

I've got a few OCDs myself and can understand the need to keep things tidy... But this one just ain't gonna happen. Ever. So maybe it's time to quit tryin'.

Or maybe it's time people stopped encouraging those that don't follow netequitte.
There are reasons for the multiple forums & multiple threads- mostly it makes it easier to resolve prolems, answer questions and discuss things.
Folding everything down in to one forum, one thread wouldn't work too well, which is the logical conclusion of not trying to keep things in the appropriate place.
Behave like a tool, be treated like one. Behave like an adult, be treated like one. It's not complicated.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

LOL...

The part I'm finding amusing is people are getting so worked up over something which at this point is having virtually zero impact at our end of the equation.

So what if the datapack is getting stuck? It's not like it's wasting any of my hosts' time on trying to split it. I have to assume the project team has a reason leave it in the queue, or they would have retired it a long time ago.

My money is on they're leaving it there on purpose, just to give people something other than CreditNew 'issues' to argue about.:-D

ITS ALIVE !!!
ntpckr and rfi are green on the SSP khan
or have i been asleep ?

It must just be group hypnosis!!!

---

ITS ALIVE !!!
ntpckr and rfi are green on the SSP khan
or have i been asleep ?

Awesome news.

So after moving to coloc, which has solved a lot of problems and chores, the people at Seti had time to put this back in the move.

This is THE news.

I am curious about details, but these will be given at proper time.

Sleepy

---

You're 100% right! People at SETI should now have more time to do their scientific work!

This is THE news.

Maybe there will even be some scientific news (after more than 3 years)!
Anyway, patience is required, so keep crunching!

We're about to run out of AP's again. Only 20 channels left to do, and no new files added for some time now. I need 50-55 APs each day, to keep my main cruncher happy.

Suffering, knows no boundaries...

Seems we have to get used to have APs 5-6 days or so and then live on resends for another 5-6 days or so, then we can start to build a cache again.

Raise that limit, and I will be a happy camper.

I guessed that the move downhill and the subsequent bigger pipeline to all us crunchers would have made it possible to raise the limit by now. But I'd rather get my 200 cache then all the time-outs and connection errors we had before...

---

Raise that limit, and I will be a happy camper.

I guessed that the move downhill and the subsequent bigger pipeline to all us crunchers would have made it possible to raise the limit by now. But I'd rather get my 200 cache then all the time-outs and connection errors we had before...

Well, the limits were actually set due to database issues, and not the bandwidth. The database struggled and almost crashed due to all the WUs out in the wild, when there was much higher limits.

Yes it was a database issue that brought the current restrictions on and even though the change to SETI V7 has fixed a certain load problem on it it has also created another load issue, but it would be nice to have the GPU limit changed to per card.

Cheers.

Whilst the imbalance in the credit system remains, you can expect APs to run out quickly as people will seek to mainly crunch AP to get their RACs back up.

The solution is to fix the credit system. When this is done, people will stop trying to game the system and things should settle towards a natural equilibrium.

---

Whilst the imbalance in the credit system remains, you can expect APs to run out quickly as people will seek to mainly crunch AP to get their RACs back up.

The solution is to fix the credit system. When this is done, people will stop trying to game the system and things should settle towards a natural equilibrium.

Strongly agree with you Lionel !
But everyone should understand that download only one kind of WU's is not very fair play.
I already told some of my team members not to download only AP's.
If everyone did the same, those who remain fair play have no more AP's :(

---

Whilst the imbalance in the credit system remains, you can expect APs to run out quickly as people will seek to mainly crunch AP to get their RACs back up.

The solution is to fix the credit system. When this is done, people will stop trying to game the system and things should settle towards a natural equilibrium.

I don't think that making a choice about what work one wishes to do on their computer is 'trying to game the system'. Credits are what they are at present.

I take AP when it is available, and take all MB work when it is not.

The kitties are happy to have whatever they can get to keep things crunching along here.

I would still like to see a bit of a bump in the GPU limits. When no AP is available and the caches consist of MB only, it's hard to keep a good rig in kibble during even the usual Tuesday outage.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Personally.. I don't care about credits or RAC at all. Zero. I don't even keep up with how much I have of either. In fact, when I crossed 5M a while back, I didn't even know about it until I happened to make a post in one of these panic threads and saw that I was at ~5.2M and I thought "oh... cool, I guess I hit 5M a few weeks ago.. neat."

The only concerns I keep up with is "how many WUs do I have? Do I have any errors or invalid results and if so, does that indicate a problem or is it just random?"

Personally.. I like APs because it means less files even if it is a lot more bytes, but it also means that I can hold a 10-day cache (~60 APs if my DCF is stable) and not be affected by the limits. If I were to allow MBs, a cache limited by the server would probably only be about 3 days..maybe. When the project moved to the co-lo, I burnt through 17 APs and still had a little over 40 ready to be crunched. Only thing I did on my end was just set BOINC to "suspend network communications" until the servers came back online.

I don't use a GPU and I don't have the best CPU either, but I do what I can with what I've got. If you're in this game for the credits or the RAC, then you don't care about the science, and there are other projects that give more credits/FLOP than this one, so why are you here?

My 2 cents.

---

Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)

Mark,

Do you remember when people were refusing
to do AP work units because they took too
long? Hurr,hurr,hurr. I wonder if they were
gaming the system then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi9sLkyhhlE

Appropriate, no?

We are all here to advance the SETI@home project and the Science.
And the Science imports me more than the RAC.
But I'm going to speak to you as Founder of team and thus as motivator of troops : the RAC is very important for a lot of members because it's the only means to quantify their participation to the SETI@home project. Many members invest in high-technology equipment to crunching better. And their only reward is the RAC while waiting to discover the signal of one extraterrestrial intelligence. I thus think that it cannot amount to a simple history of "I don't care of the RAC" or "The RAC is very important". Everybody is there to advance the Science and the RAC realizes the investment of each. It's thus normal to be attached to it. It's a whole balance.

---

The solution is to fix the credit system. When this is done, people will stop trying to game the system and things should settle towards a natural equilibrium.

The other solution is to make autocorrelation code faster in the Stock apps, so the Stock apps aren't so inefficient at doing v7 work (especially the GPU apps, especially shorties), NewCredit is basically working as designed.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=72169&postid=1387022

My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong:-)) on day 1 The stock CPU apps for MBV7 are the optimized apps used for V6 plus AVX for even faster Stock MB application...

The stock Sah v7 CPU app primarily differs from the stock Sah v6 CPU app by the addition of code to do the Autocorrelation search. There were also some AVX functions added and it is linked to a newer version of FFTW which also supports AVX. Both stock CPU apps do have considerable optimization, but that is done in a manner allowing the same application to run well on a wide variety of systems.

The relative speed of the stock apps is certainly pertinent to a discussion of CreditNew, because CPU efficiency is higher than GPU efficiency as Dr. Anderson conceives the term. Two quotes from the CreditNew wiki page are pertinent:

GPUs typically have a higher (10-100X) peak FLOPS than CPUs. However, application efficiency is typically lower (very roughly, 10% for GPUs, 50% for CPUs).

If an application has both CPU and GPU versions, the version normalization mechanism figures out which version is most efficient and uses that to reduce the credit granted to less-efficient versions.

The v6 and v7 CPU apps are about the same speed when doing v6 tasks, with a small advantage to the v7 version on hosts with AVX capability. The added time of Autocorrelations on CPU is somewhat less than a 10% increase averaged over all angle ranges. On GPU the impact of Autocorrelations is much greater, which translates into a serious loss of efficiency as Dr. Anderson conceives it.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=72169&postid=1387059

For my two cents in that context, I'm pleased to see Dr A's theories matching reality, since algorithmically both the CPU & GPU autocorelations are order O(nlogn) , however my baseline/reference 'get it working' GPU autcorrelation implementation uses the 4nfft approach, so becomes 4x(nlogn). It's then pretty easy to see how 10% becomes 40%. A tasty Type 2 DCT kernel with attention to max bandwidth and cache locality should improve that handily, once all the dust has settled and other fires extinguished.

Claggy