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Number crunching :
WASTING MY TIME?
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dancer42 Send message Joined: 2 Jun 02 Posts: 455 Credit: 2,422,890 RAC: 1 |
The ego and self-importance of some people is surfacing again (maybe it never went under) with the ridicule of people without a green star. It is quite apparent that we each contribute resources to this project, those who are computing continuously. I'm sorry I have to remind you of that. Most of this community's PC's no longer waste energy all night as they did when the project started, with automatic sleep mode, etc. So we choose to contribute a portion of our energy bucks on S@H. Isn't that enough? Many of us go out and update our hardware periodically in order to "keep our stats up". That is a contribution as well, assuming our work is useful and appreciated. Unless I'm missing something, it is at that point the community recedes back and let's the S@H work its way. Pretty much that is where I am now. I am one of the people that has been encouraging others to donate and i to would like to clarify what i am saying. If you have a star grate if you don't have a star but crunch grate i have not mentioned stars at all till now. What i have tried to say is if you belong to a club and can afford it you expect to have to pay dues every once and a while to keep the roof over head and the lights on. As to what seti has done and what it's mission is, seti's original goal was to ask people to volunteer computer time and resources to search for radio evidence of extra terrestrial life. seti is what is called pure research because it is not about finding that signal it is about learning about how to look and serendipitously finding things along the way. If folding@home finds a cure for huntington's disease it will be because seti led the way. if the prime numbers primegrid is finding make your banking safer thank seti. If what is learned at cern though lhc@home, it will have been sped up many years because seti is here it is about the cheapest investment to unlocking basic information about the universe there is on this planet and Well worth collecting a little pocket change and sending it every couple of year but feel free to sit on the side line, no one will twist you arm least of all me. I sat on the side line too for a long time and now am playing catch up hopefully by march i can get my contribution to a dollar a month for the time i have used seti what you do is up to you. in any event good crunching and happy holidays to you and crack a smile for no apparent reason it breaks up the day. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14653 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
:) Ok, got it, Chris. One may only post personal, and hopefully objective views if one donates cash. And if one crunches and doesn't say anything, that's ok too. I've been confused on that fine point for 10+ years. I'm all in favour of freedom, in the sense of freedom of action and free speech. But the supply of free WUs is closer to free beer - i.e., they're only free if somebody else is paying. I support the call for donations at times when our hobby and our search mission is under strain - I've done it before, and I'll do it again. I'm not interested in the slightest by the number of green stars on display, but I am interested (and disappointed) by the numbers on the recent donations page. Come on, it takes money to keep this show running. If you are a freedom lover, you'd probably prefer that it comes from individual donations rather than coercively from taxpayers. In this week, we've seen that one member of staff voluntarily went to the lab on a national holiday to fix a problem, and there are now signs that someone (whether the same person, or a different one) volunteered to go there before 8 am on a (holiday) Saturday morning. We can't go to the lab and help in person, but we can show our appreciation and contribute in other ways. I'd simply invite free beer lovers to stand their round. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
I agree with a lot said here, but primarily, whether someone has a green star next to their name should have no bearing on how they are though of or treated. We are all exactly equal green star or not. |
KWSN Ekky Ekky Ekky Send message Joined: 25 May 99 Posts: 944 Credit: 52,956,491 RAC: 67 |
No green star. Just sitting here waiting patiently. ...and wishing others would do the same. |
tbret Send message Joined: 28 May 99 Posts: 3380 Credit: 296,162,071 RAC: 40 |
I'm not arguing with you, but since you put that into print I feel the need to respond. There are no "stats-monsters" here. If anyone were into their stats, there are many projects that "pay" better and many projects that are more easily dominated. Every single person who crunches SETI@Home work is devoted to the project. If not, they are foolishly wasting their ability to "gain stats." What you may be seeing is some extremely friendly competition from people who are a little OCD. I've never, ever seen anyone say, "Look at me! I'm #1. The rest of you are inferior to me!"
Now, I want to argue. I think you are looking at it wrong. It takes so very, very little to get that star that anyone, and I do mean *anyone,* who participates can get a star if they want one. We are all exactly equal in our ability to get a green star. Notice that there is no way to tell whether someone gave $10 or $10,000 by looking at their star. I suspect that was by design. Think of it like the satisfaction you get from giving a ham instead of receiving one. Unless you are donating that anonymously somehow, someone smiles at you and says "thank you," when they receive your contribution whether it's one ham or a truck full of hams. It's just an acknowledgement that you have contributed to the cause. It does show each-other who cares enough to support the research beyond running their computer. It's sort-of like a donor appreciation event with punch and star cookies. If there's something wrong with that, you'll have to explain it to me.
There are several new things going-on and several research projects are going-on all at once. Since they are sharing data and infrastructure there's a kind-of gestalt at work. I'd like to know more about what all is going-on and I'm sure, one day, when they have time, they'll give us some details. If not; well, that's perfectly alright, too. You can't know that the family didn't take the ham home and feed it to the dog. |
Horacio Send message Joined: 14 Jan 00 Posts: 536 Credit: 75,967,266 RAC: 0 |
It takes so very, very little to get that star that anyone, and I do mean *anyone,* who participates can get a star if they want one. We are all exactly equal in our ability to get a green star. Sadly, thats not true. To be able to donate you need a credit card or a PayPal account. In my country the only way to send money to a PayPal account is through a credit card, and the banks do not give credit cards for free. I dont have one because they have a very hard to achieve requisites to give you a "domestic" one and the requisites become plainly impossible for the international cards needed to be able to send money out of the country... So, Im not able to get a green star, not even if I were wanting to have one. That said, Im not against the stars, and TBH this concept is not classist neither divisive. It is people that could be classist, and for that people anything can be used to attack others to feel that they are better: "With that miserable [RAC|post count|total credit|age|gender|small "thing"] you should be ashamed"... |
dancer42 Send message Joined: 2 Jun 02 Posts: 455 Credit: 2,422,890 RAC: 1 |
The ego and self-importance of some people is surfacing again (maybe it never went under) with the ridicule of people without a green star. It is quite apparent that we each contribute resources to this project, those who are computing continuously. I'm sorry I have to remind you of that. Most of this community's PC's no longer waste energy all night as they did when the project started, with automatic sleep mode, etc. So we choose to contribute a portion of our energy bucks on S@H. Isn't that enough? Many of us go out and update our hardware periodically in order to "keep our stats up". That is a contribution as well, assuming our work is useful and appreciated. Unless I'm missing something, it is at that point the community recedes back and let's the S@H work its way. Pretty much that is where I am now. hay i am with you i was responding to "PhonAcq" it does not hurt much to save some pocket change and donate eric and the crew need a new light bulb. lol DANCER42 |
dancer42 Send message Joined: 2 Jun 02 Posts: 455 Credit: 2,422,890 RAC: 1 |
It is not about the star, or even finding the golden signal,it's about looking and exploring,it is about keeping the light's on in one of the most wonderful experiments in the entire history of mankind. seti has already changed the way science is done. If you have a neat idea and you can't get funding or time on the university mainframe ask for volunteer's,Seti did it! so if you can, help, if you can't that is ok. When seti was started almost everybody said it will never work yet here we are. we have change and are changing the world every day seti run's,so once again if you can help please do, if you really can't that is alright too. But at the end of the day please enjoy having changed the world just a little bit. DANCER42 |
tbret Send message Joined: 28 May 99 Posts: 3380 Credit: 296,162,071 RAC: 40 |
My stars! How can you ask that!?! With so many thousands of people around, someone always misunderstands and takes offense. You could say, "Good morning!" and someone's going to point-out that this is an international project and that it's only morning to some of us, and how dare people in ________ think they are the center of the universe and force the rest of us to accept a pleasantry that assumes the superiority of their time-zone. After all, their dark is every bit as good as our light...etc, etc, etc. Someone always has their panties in a wad. Don't look now (or ever, when I stop to think about it), but sometimes it's me. |
Cheopis Send message Joined: 17 Sep 00 Posts: 156 Credit: 18,451,329 RAC: 0 |
Eh, why not perform the validation by hash, through some sort of peer-to-peer validation, and have SETI send each data piece to only one peer unless there are problems? In other words, send one big data chunk to user #1, (validate by hash), who then forwards it to user #2 who validates it with a hash to SETI. Then they both split it, and cross validate with each other. If they do not match all hashes properly, then they re-split, and compare their first set to their second set and if their first sets match their second sets, but they still don't match each other, then and only then would the SETI project send out another copy of the first big data chunk. This means that BOINC would have to take on the role of a peer-to-peer data transfer host for project data. I'm not sure how doable this would be, or how secure it could be made to be. |
Tron Send message Joined: 16 Aug 09 Posts: 180 Credit: 2,250,468 RAC: 0 |
Did someone say "free beer" ? |
juan BFP Send message Joined: 16 Mar 07 Posts: 9786 Credit: 572,710,851 RAC: 3,799 |
Did someone say "free beer" ? Free beer? I´m second in line! |
KWSN-Sir Robin's Minstrels Send message Joined: 19 Aug 03 Posts: 21 Credit: 28,056,195 RAC: 23 |
This means that BOINC would have to take on the role of a peer-to-peer data transfer host for project data. I'm not sure how doable this would be, or how secure it could be made to be. I'm sure the security of such a setup is the main concern. Once upon a time the system WAS less secure (if I remember it was pre-BOINC) and data that was closer to raw was handed out...and it didn't take long for a small group of people to start falsifying results and compromising the project in the name of the almighty RAC. I doubt we'll see uncontrolled raw data out in the wild again because of this. |
Dorphas Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 118 Credit: 8,007,247 RAC: 0 |
until seti actually starts looking at the data and showing everyone the results, we all are wasting our time. after almost 14 years they own everyone that. it was, after all, one of the statements made when the ads came out to sign up for seti. |
Claggy Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 4654 Credit: 47,537,079 RAC: 4 |
until seti actually starts looking at the data and showing everyone the results, we all are wasting our time. after almost 14 years they own everyone that. it was, after all, one of the statements made when the ads came out to sign up for seti. Which is what the Near-Time Persistency Checker (NTPCkr) does: Near-Time Persistency Checker (NTPCkr) Frequently Asked Questions and has been Publically shown in the past: Near-Time Persistency Checker: Current Best Candidates by Score Claggy |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
SETI is A Near Time Persistent Donation Accepting Machine for Us One Percenters. Check, Double Check. DEMON...Gamma Ray Burst Burning Hot. May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
WezH Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 576 Credit: 67,033,957 RAC: 95 |
Near-Time Persistency Checker: Current Best Candidates by Score Well about that... "The public version of this page is currently offline, as we are still developing large parts of the code." Again, major problem of Seti@Home. No new information for The Volunteers. Yes, I DO know about the lack of funding and manpower, and I have patience to wait, but... How many of beginners of Seti@Home does have?... "This doesn't work, I'll just uninstall it" How many of those kind of "volunteers" Seti@Home have/had? |
Josef W. Segur Send message Joined: 30 Oct 99 Posts: 4504 Credit: 1,414,761 RAC: 0 |
... Stats sites show that there are about 1343k SaH user accounts, and about 153k still active. Just think what we might be doing now if many of those lapsed users had been interested enough to make even one 10 dollar donation rather than simply giving up! I would guess there's been more users lost because their computer died and they forgot to add SaH on the replacement, though. In Classic days, only about a third of accounts never completed a WU. Joe |
HAL9000 Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 6534 Credit: 196,805,888 RAC: 57 |
... From the information on the donations page it looks like the donations average close to $1 per active user. If the donations averaged $10, or even $5, per user that would be a significant amount of money. SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[ |
Blurf Send message Joined: 2 Sep 06 Posts: 8962 Credit: 12,678,685 RAC: 0 |
I PM'ed Brad from GPU users to offer assistance last week and still haven't heard anything. *shrug* |
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