For the benefit of non-US readers, a distinction should made between a lottery and a lotto.

With a lottery there is a limited number of tickets sold, usually 100,000. The lottery is drawn when all tickets are sold and the winner is the first marble drawn from the barrel. Therefore the odds of winning are 1 in 100,000.

With a lotto, the punter has to select a combination of numbers, (usually 6 or 7) on a card with the numbers 1 to 40 printed on it. (These numbers vary, in Oz, some go to 70). A sequence of numbers is drawn from a barrel and if the punter has selected all of these numbers then the prize is theirs. With a 40 number card the odds of winning the major prize are around 6.5 million to one.

Despite the very high odds against them people still win the major prize.

Therefore, even if the odds against it are almost infinity to one, there is still a finite chance that in 13.7 billion years, life as we know it could develop through random chance.

I do not deny the possible existence of some kind of creator but, I would put the odds one existing at the same odds as random chance. The odds are even higher that this creator would be the stern, grey bearded gentleman that Christians envisage.

T.A.

For the benefit of non-US readers, a distinction should made between a lottery and a lotto.

With a lottery there is a limited number of tickets sold, usually 100,000. The lottery is drawn when all tickets are sold and the winner is the first marble drawn from the barrel. Therefore the odds of winning are 1 in 100,000.

With a lotto, the punter has to select a combination of numbers, (usually 6 or 7) on a card with the numbers 1 to 40 printed on it. (These numbers vary, in Oz, some go to 70). A sequence of numbers is drawn from a barrel and if the punter has selected all of these numbers then the prize is theirs. With a 40 number card the odds of winning the major prize are around 6.5 million to one.

Despite the very high odds against them people still win the major prize.

Therefore, even if the odds against it are almost infinity to one, there is still a finite chance that in 13.7 billion years, life as we know it could develop through random chance.

I do not deny the possible existence of some kind of creator but, I would put the odds one existing at the same odds as random chance. The odds are even higher that this creator would be the stern, grey bearded gentleman that Christians envisage.

T.A.

I thank you for clearing up the definition of the words. Nevertheless, it is called the Illinois State Lottery. So, if there was a misunderstanding it was not on purpose on my part.

The combination of numbers we can call the variables. There is a limit to the number of combinations. Odds are that two or more will have the correct numbers.

The odds of the universe assembling itself are indeed complicated by the CSI/variables. Taking the chance out of even one chance in the life of the universe. We can only operate with what we know and that is life happened outside of probable chance. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. We know of many variables, the addition of more only makes the odds longer and I'm sure there is more to it then we know so far. The number so far is many times the life of the universe. If it was by chance we would expect the universe to be older then it is. Much older.

Why would we expect it to be much older? If I was to buy a ticket every day of the week for our state lotto and started at the day I was born how long would it take till I won the jackpot? Could there be a chance that I would never win?

While I think of creation and how it was done I do not think of what the intelligent agent looks like with my eyes. I look at what was done to gain some understanding that will always be at best incomplete. Don't assume what I think without asking, it wouldn't be good science.

If there are 1.5 billion christians, 1 billion Muslims, 0.8 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Budahsim, and the world population is >7 billion. Then the minority is not all that small at over 45%.

I don't know where those figures came from.

World population 6.8 billion
Christianity 2.1 billion
Islam 1.5 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Buddhism 376 million
No religion 1 billion

I make that 900 million undeclared. Therefore :-

72% religious
28% non, or non declared.

Religions

Add kitties to the equation......they are notorious for being non-denominational.
Several trillion kitties should skew the results a bit.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

6.5 million to one is much better odds then...

1 in 10^10^123

So everybody in this thread seems to be in agreement that God really did create the whole universe. Good result, good debate!

Its really super to hear that everybody here is turning back to God. He will be very pleased with you all!

John :)

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LOL.....
I really don't spend much time bothering to ask God what he was doing before he created the heavens and the earth.
I figure it it His business.
And I would rather thank Him for what he did after he decided to go off holiday.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

"Intelligent design" can be credited to Nature and the way that evolution works. The problem is when an anthropomorphic uber-being is given the credit. So you could then see nature as 'Intelligent" of even god-like.

So it's really a non-issue. one man's Nature is another man's god.

I like that statement. Another thought on what God did before the big bang. He presided over an infinite number of previous big bangs.

---

Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

So everybody in this thread seems to be in agreement that God really did create the whole universe. Good result, good debate!

Its really super to hear that everybody here is turning back to God. He will be very pleased with you all!

John :)

huh?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

So everybody in this thread seems to be in agreement that God really did create the whole universe. Good result, good debate!

Its really super to hear that everybody here is turning back to God. He will be very pleased with you all!

John :)

John, you have a great sense of humor, that's funny. Thanks for the laugh.

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ID, this is assuming an "intelligent agent", not a good assumption. What evidence for the agent do you have to offer? If you say life, then you are thinking in circles and that makes me dizzy.

{CSI}

Today is the template for yesterday.

I'm on the inside looking out. Not on the outside looking in.

ID, at first I thought your response was serious, which I found to be pathetic, now after thinking it over it is just babble to me.

---

So everybody in this thread seems to be in agreement that God really did create the whole universe. Good result, good debate!

Its really super to hear that everybody here is turning back to God. He will be very pleased with you all!

John :)

John, you have a great sense of humor, that's funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Thanks betreger,
I try to amuse everyone.

John.

---

ID, this is assuming an "intelligent agent", not a good assumption. What evidence for the agent do you have to offer? If you say life, then you are thinking in circles and that makes me dizzy.

{CSI}

Today is the template for yesterday.

I'm on the inside looking out. Not on the outside looking in.

ID, at first I thought your response was serious, which I found to be pathetic, now after thinking it over it is just babble to me.

Thanks betreger. At first I thought you just wanted to insult me, then, I didn't think you understood the science and or logic, after thinking about it; I'm sure you didn't understand either and all you wanted to do was to insult me.

snipped . . .

I'm on the inside looking out. Not on the outside looking in.

So now we have an outside. Are you sure, and if so, how did you prove it?

I took a look at your state lottery and as they advertise the odds are over 20 million:1 then I would say there is a distinct probablility you would not win even if you bought 1 ticket/day. To have an evens chance it would have to be ~1000/day.

ID wrote

Why would we expect it to be much older? If I was to buy a ticket every day of the week for our state lotto and started at the day I was born how long would it take till I won the jackpot? Could there be a chance that I would never win?

Yes, but there is also the chance you could win it on the first try.

Bob Dewoody wrote

Another thought on what God did before the big bang. He presided over an infinite number of previous big bangs.

Waiting for his numbers to come out (i.e. Life to emerge) ?

:-)

T.A.

ID, your response made no sense to me, as for the insult you perceive I'm sorry that you are that paranoid.

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ID, your response made no sense to me, as for the insult you perceive I'm sorry that you are that paranoid.

Not at all paranoid. To be correct---honest.

snipped . . .

I'm on the inside looking out. Not on the outside looking in.

So now we have an outside. Are you sure, and if so, how did you prove it?

I took a look at your state lottery and as they advertise the odds are over 20 million:1 then I would say there is a distinct probablility you would not win even if you bought 1 ticket/day. To have an evens chance it would have to be ~1000/day.

And still the odds will say there is not even a chance in that. And of course there is only one drawing per week.

ID wrote

Why would we expect it to be much older? If I was to buy a ticket every day of the week for our state lotto and started at the day I was born how long would it take till I won the jackpot? Could there be a chance that I would never win?

Yes, but there is also the chance you could win it on the first try.

Bob Dewoody wrote

Another thought on what God did before the big bang. He presided over an infinite number of previous big bangs.

Waiting for his numbers to come out (i.e. Life to emerge) ?

:-)

T.A.

At the first try the odds are even more unlikely.

Once again down the road of pure speculation. There is only one universe and only one can be tested. Prove more then one verse.

I have only said that an intelligent agent is outside of our timeline. It would seem to be logical being that it was created, not from within, but from without.

ID wrote

Why would we expect it to be much older? If I was to buy a ticket every day of the week for our state lotto and started at the day I was born how long would it take till I won the jackpot? Could there be a chance that I would never win?

Yes, but there is also the chance you could win it on the first try.

Bob Dewoody wrote

Another thought on what God did before the big bang. He presided over an infinite number of previous big bangs.

Waiting for his numbers to come out (i.e. Life to emerge) ?

:-)

T.A.

At the first try the odds are even more unlikely.

Once again down the road of pure speculation. There is only one universe and only one can be tested. Prove more then one verse.

I have only said that an intelligent agent is outside of our timeline. It would seem to be logical being that it was created, not from within, but from without.

I did ask in my previous, but is there an outside?

ID wrote

Why would we expect it to be much older? If I was to buy a ticket every day of the week for our state lotto and started at the day I was born how long would it take till I won the jackpot? Could there be a chance that I would never win?

Yes, but there is also the chance you could win it on the first try.

Bob Dewoody wrote

Another thought on what God did before the big bang. He presided over an infinite number of previous big bangs.

Waiting for his numbers to come out (i.e. Life to emerge) ?

:-)

T.A.

At the first try the odds are even more unlikely.

Once again down the road of pure speculation. There is only one universe and only one can be tested. Prove more then one verse.

I have only said that an intelligent agent is outside of our timeline. It would seem to be logical being that it was created, not from within, but from without.

I did ask in my previous, but is there an outside?

I made my point on this issue. What is your point? You cannot prove other verses. You are not in theory with this thought all you have is speculation, and that is ALL you have.