At the time of American independance, 1776, the firearm in use was the muzzle loaded musket, which had a maximum killing range of about 100m.
In trained hands the firing rate was about 4 rounds/minute, 6 rounds/minute for crack constantly practicing troops. Less accurate than a modern pistol which can fire 4 rounds/sec.

So if the enemy was 100m away and you didn't incapacitate him, then, before you could re-load he would probably be upon you and run you through with his pike, bayonet or sword.

Comments and laws made shortly after 1776 shouldn't really apply to modern assault rifles.

M-16, 15 rounds/min sustained, 60 rounds/min semi-auto, over 750 rounds/min cyclic fully auto. Range > 500m.

Perhaps that should be

"Inanimate objects do carry out or commit crime"

Because this lot certainly seems to" Cause" a few crimes




And how about this lot

+1

+2!

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

It seems as no one wants to consider the possibility of the "honest citizen" that already owns "snapping" at some later point.

Perhaps that should be

"Inanimate objects do carry out or commit crime"

Because this lot certainly seems to" Cause" a few crimes




And how about this lot

Why not show the items responsible for the most deaths?

Or doesn't the truth help?

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Someone pointed out that you can't do a mass killing with a knife ...

Seventeen villagers beheaded in southern Afghanistan

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Why not show the items responsible for the most deaths?

Or doesn't the truth help?

http://chronicle.com/article/Does-Religion-Really-Poison/133457/?cid=cr&utm_source=cr&utm_medium=en

That includes laying the blame for much of human conflict at the feet of the faithful. In a recent Science article, Atran and Jeremy Ginges, an associate professor of psychology at the New School, cite evidence suggesting that "only a small minority of recorded wars" have been mainly motivated by religious disputes (though making distinctions between religious and political causes is notoriously knotty). They complain in the article that the New Atheists are quick to remind everyone how fundamentalism fuels Al Qaeda but neglect to mention the role of churches in the civil-rights movement. The New Atheists are, according to Atran and Ginges, cherry-picking the horrors. "Science produced a nuclear bomb. Therefore we should throw away science," says Atran, to illustrate the baby-bathwater logic. "Sometimes it can be really noxious, and other times it can be quite helpful."

Someone pointed out that you can't do a mass killing with a knife ...

Seventeen villagers beheaded in southern Afghanistan

Link please, for context?
Suppose they were first approached at gun point, herded together, tied up? Then they have all the time they want to carry out the beheadings.

Its been all over the BBC News today - not too sure about it being a "simple knife", more likely to have been a sword or an axe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19388869

None the less, it was a massacre.
Of course you forget the Rwandan Hutsi/Tutu massacres/genocide of a few years back where the two weapons of choice were clubs and machete - far cheaper than guns when killing hundreds in a day....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Its been all over the BBC News today - not too sure about it being a "simple knife", more likely to have been a sword or an axe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19388869

None the less, it was a massacre.
Of course you forget the Rwandan Hutsi/Tutu massacres/genocide of a few years back where the two weapons of choice were clubs and machete - far cheaper than guns when killing hundreds in a day....

The Telegraph account suggest there was shooting involved.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9501478/Taliban-behead-17-caught-dancing-to-music-at-party.html

Intelligent Design, I understand the concept of the right to carry arms, but all your quotes are historical and I don't believe most of the people who made them could have foreseen the age we now live in.

Of course there is an old quote that you could have possibly used

Thou shalt not kill.

I am not at all religious yet that seems above all the most important commandment.

We do not have the right to take a life.

I'm 100% pro-life. I don't even believe in the death penalty.

However, Id drop like a bad habit anyone who wanted to harm my family.

We do have the God given right to defend our selves. This starts at the one and moves out to the group called like minded Country.

At the time of American independance, 1776, the firearm in use was the muzzle loaded musket, which had a maximum killing range of about 100m.
In trained hands the firing rate was about 4 rounds/minute, 6 rounds/minute for crack constantly practicing troops. Less accurate than a modern pistol which can fire 4 rounds/sec.

So if the enemy was 100m away and you didn't incapacitate him, then, before you could re-load he would probably be upon you and run you through with his pike, bayonet or sword.

Comments and laws made shortly after 1776 shouldn't really apply to modern assault rifles.

M-16, 15 rounds/min sustained, 60 rounds/min semi-auto, over 750 rounds/min cyclic fully auto. Range > 500m.

Laws made in 1776 do apply to today's people. There is no difference at all between people now from people in 1776. Need's and want's are still the same. Reason's for law have not changed. As a matter of fact slavery and reasons that are still the same.

The firearm has not changed. You squeeze a trigger and a load of lead goes downrange. It matters not how many loads goes downrange. The intent and target is still the same.

The reasons for ownership are still the same, as you can see from the quotes.

So, what are you gonna do when China comes a calling for gold in hand?

One last quote--


Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” ~ Samuel Adams

Someone pointed out that you can't do a mass killing with a knife ...

Seventeen villagers beheaded in southern Afghanistan

Heard about that on the news. Crazy Taliban...

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

We do have the God given right to defend our selves. This starts at the one and moves out to the group called like minded Country.

You most certainly do not have a God given right to defend yourself. Most religions I know would suggest "turning the other cheek"

You have a right to defend yourself, but it is not "God given"

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ISP playing up will post when stable again.

Office Location:
The New School for Social Research
Psychology Department
65 5th Ave, 3rd Floor
New York, NY 10011

Real credible source: an office building.
Wanna play again?
This time try citing a real university with a campus and not a diploma mill.

Oh, might ask me a question before you make a big ass-u-me again. Did my picture say anything about "followers?" NO! But if you asked you might have found out my scree is against leaders and organizers. However I suspect that distinction will be lost upon you.

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nor is it likely to be attacked.

Since it is under daily attack, that statement is rather false. If you said invasion, perhaps, but I still suspect there is a country or two that would love to invade and plunder, and another country or two that would like to invade and kill for the fun of it.

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I am not sure that God intended 'thou shalt not kill' or 'turn the other cheek' to mean that one should surrender their life to a criminal rather than use deadly force to preserve one's own life.

It does however, mean that killing in a war over such things as property, resources, or politics is not His way.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Someone pointed out that you can't do a mass killing with a knife ...

Seventeen villagers beheaded in southern Afghanistan

Link please, for context?
Suppose they were first approached at gun point, herded together, tied up? Then they have all the time they want to carry out the beheadings.

As usual first news reports aren't quite right. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/201282772631941208.html I assume you do keep up on the news. In any case http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/2012827141644149141.html seems to have the best story.

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Just War

Just War

Now here I can point out where my own Country has failed and done very well.

It is here that we see defense is a God Given Right.

I am not Amish. Nor am I a Quaker. If you are, then I understand.

Title of this thread is "Another American Shooting"

My apologies if I have been involved in hi-jacking it to war/anti war thread.

However, I never got a proper answer re the "God given right"

Sorry but "thou shalt not kill" cannot be turned to "thou shalt not kill except if your family is threatened"

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