China - Is she getting frisky?

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BarryAZ

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Message 1221745 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 18:00:45 UTC - in response to Message 1221666.  

Figured it might -- your originating post suggested implied there was 'good colonialism' while you've been quite demonstrative about 'bad colonialism'.

Perhaps all this bad stuff happened in China when we stopped Japan from taking over there.




@Barryz, thanks for giving me a good chuckle....made my day...:)


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Message 1221803 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 20:36:34 UTC - in response to Message 1221745.  

Figured it might -- your originating post suggested implied there was 'good colonialism' while you've been quite demonstrative about 'bad colonialism'.

Perhaps all this bad stuff happened in China when we stopped Japan from taking over there.


I'm gonna have to post more clearly. What I meant was that while US Forces were in Subic Bay, China still moaned about the South China Sea & Taiwan, but that's all it was moaning. Now no main base for US Forces....they're trying to become the "colonial power" in the area (put quotes in as not sure if it would be read as intended).


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Message 1221815 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 21:30:23 UTC - in response to Message 1221803.  

Figured it might -- your originating post suggested implied there was 'good colonialism' while you've been quite demonstrative about 'bad colonialism'.

Perhaps all this bad stuff happened in China when we stopped Japan from taking over there.


I'm gonna have to post more clearly. What I meant was that while US Forces were in Subic Bay, China still moaned about the South China Sea & Taiwan, but that's all it was moaning. Now no main base for US Forces....they're trying to become the "colonial power" in the area (put quotes in as not sure if it would be read as intended).



Could be a case here of China trying to run before it's learnt to walk.



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Message 1221831 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 22:03:24 UTC - in response to Message 1221815.  



Could be a case here of China trying to run before it's learnt to walk.



That may be the case, but for every 100 females born there is 120 males born & with a population of over 1 billion, the Korean War has shown just how much the Chinese leadership cares about their people.

They can afford to lose several million in combat, but can whoever fights them?

That is the question! The west currently have too many pussyfooting lilywhites in power, so based on that alone...China wins hands down.

Scary thought isn't it.....
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Message 1221843 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 22:19:39 UTC - in response to Message 1221831.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2012, 22:20:23 UTC



Could be a case here of China trying to run before it's learnt to walk.



That may be the case, but for every 100 females born there is 120 males born & with a population of over 1 billion, the Korean War has shown just how much the Chinese leadership cares about their people.

They can afford to lose several million in combat, but can whoever fights them?

That is the question! The west currently have too many pussyfooting lilywhites in power, so based on that alone...China wins hands down.

Scary thought isn't it.....


Not at all Sirius, sounds to me like too many people to have to control during
a war. Plus most will be required to be at home, in the factories or on the farms,
producing to supply the war effort. On the home front then they will need
to keep a massive army afield to keep the Russians at bay, that's if the
Russians were to get involved, that is.
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Message 1221846 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 22:21:37 UTC - in response to Message 1221841.  

The west currently have too many pussyfooting lilywhites in power,


shirt tails .....



no comments on the rest of the post? & just what does shirt tails imply as I can't see the reference.
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Message 1221856 - Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 22:35:43 UTC

no comments on the rest of the post? & just what does shirt tails imply as I can't see the reference.


No FT, no comment...


The Kite Fliers

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belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1221983 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 1:58:13 UTC - in response to Message 1221803.  

Sirius, nope I understood what you meant, I just playing there. The thing is, 20 or 30 years ago, the relative economic and military power between China and the US was quite a bit different than it is today, and frankly, that has NOTHING to do with the withdrawal from Subic Bay.

[/quote]

I'm gonna have to post more clearly. What I meant was that while US Forces were in Subic Bay, China still moaned about the South China Sea & Taiwan, but that's all it was moaning. Now no main base for US Forces....they're trying to become the "colonial power" in the area (put quotes in as not sure if it would be read as intended).

[/quote]
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Message 1221984 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 2:00:11 UTC - in response to Message 1221831.  

There you go again, Churchill felt the UK had too many pussyfooting lilywhites in power during the 30's relative to India, and for that matter, he operated under constraints relative to Ireland during WW II.




That is the question! The west currently have too many pussyfooting lilywhites in power, so based on that alone...China wins hands down.

Scary thought isn't it.....

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Message 1221991 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 2:07:48 UTC - in response to Message 1221984.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2012, 2:08:49 UTC

On this one, that's because it was pointed out to him that his views/actions would alienate the several 100,000 Irish troops currently serving in the Forces during that conflict, which at that time, they were sorely needed.

edited for corrections.
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Message 1222078 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 7:03:32 UTC - in response to Message 1221831.  

They can afford to lose several million in combat, but can whoever fights them?... Scary thought isn't it.....

Exactly. That's why I worry and why I think anyone should...

#resist
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Message 1222082 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 7:26:09 UTC - in response to Message 1221991.  

Early on -- 1939 to mid 1941, Churchill was really bothered that the Irish would not allow the British to have both air stations and port support to reduce the U boat threat. He felt that the Irish ought to have been at least a trifle supportive against Hitler. As to the hundreds of thousands of Irish troops - are you talking of Irish-Americans, or Irish British citizens here? As I understand, Ireland remained neutral during WW II. Some fair number of Irish from Northern Ireland and for that matter Irish citizens who were in the UK (many looking for work since unemployment was quite high in Ireland during the war) did end up in the British Army (though none as organized Irish units).


On this one, that's because it was pointed out to him that his views/actions would alienate the several 100,000 Irish troops currently serving in the Forces during that conflict, which at that time, they were sorely needed.

edited for corrections.

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Message 1222101 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 9:45:50 UTC - in response to Message 1222100.  


The shirt tail reference was to you showing your oft quoted dislike for anyone in authority. As for the Chinese millions, just because they have a large population doesn't mean that they would or need to sacrifice large numbers of soldiers in a conflict. The days of WWI canon fodder are gone.



I've stated previously, "never take the book by its cover". you have shown you do & you continue to do so.

It looks like the "whistleblower" is still disliked & many attempt to "label" one. I do not dislike authority for had I done so, or even shown that tendency, I do not think I would have survived in the Army or working on the trains as in both organisations, one is saturated with authority.

As for your comment regarding "cannon fodder" that is very true. Unfortunately it is only true for the West. The East have a different mindset with regards to life, & it's one which has always been misunderstood by the West.

@BarryZ The same can then be said for, Portugual, Spain, Switzerland. The number of troops I quoted was for both sides of Ireland. Many in the South disagreed with DeValera & thought, had Hitler won, he would've moved on Ireland which was ideally positioned as an Atlantic Base.
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Message 1222127 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 11:17:41 UTC - in response to Message 1221983.  

Sirius, nope I understood what you meant, I just playing there. The thing is, 20 or 30 years ago, the relative economic and military power between China and the US was quite a bit different than it is today, and frankly, that has NOTHING to do with the withdrawal from Subic Bay.


Without using google or the surfer's friend the Wiki, I do not know the reason why US Forces pulled out of the Philippines.

I'm just stating that as there is no permanent base in the region, it leaves the door open for China, as having a US Fleet in the South China sea is ok, but if tensions rose to the point where your forces went to defcon 2 or even to defcon 1, where will that fleets replentishment come from?
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Message 1222246 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 17:11:49 UTC - in response to Message 1222126.  
Last modified: 23 Apr 2012, 17:13:42 UTC

No problem whatsoever Chris. It's all a matter of checks & counter-checks. If they were not needed, then mods here, lawyers, judges etc etc etc would never be required.

However, we are not perfect so all of us need others to keep the balance - so to speak.

I'd be pretty annoyed if no one ruffled my feathers every so often for the simple fact is, if no ruffling, it can lead to a person thinking that they are always right - that can become dangerous... so carry on ruffling.

Which brings us back on topic.... the Eastern mindset with regards to life is totally different & they dislike being told so....that is a problem when two dissimilar mindsets clash on the international stage.
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Message 1222249 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 17:15:45 UTC - in response to Message 1222100.  

Well, at least for the Chinese, you'd need to push the WW I reference up to at least the Korean War as the Chinese used massed wave attacks then.




As for the Chinese millions, just because they have a large population doesn't mean that they would or need to sacrifice large numbers of soldiers in a conflict. The days of WWI canon fodder are gone.


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Message 1222251 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 17:25:01 UTC - in response to Message 1222127.  

Power projection costs a lot of money. Power projection in multiple regions concurrently costs a lot as well. When the US got out of Vietnam, and also moved to move to an engage China as an offset to the Soviet Union, there was an inclination to back off a presence in East Asia.

At that time, China was not a growing economic power and had no resources for power projection.

Times have changed, the US got focused on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

An interesting thing now, is that the US is shifting its focus back, hence agreements with Australia and moves with the the Philipenes. That being said, as I noted before, China's enormous economic growth, along with their increased appetite for resources sets them up as a primary player there. Bases are stationary targets though, and that force projection capability of China is growing.





I'm just stating that as there is no permanent base in the region, it leaves the door open for China, as having a US Fleet in the South China sea is ok, but if tensions rose to the point where your forces went to defcon 2 or even to defcon 1, where will that fleets replentishment come from?


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Message 1222263 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 17:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 1222251.  

stationary targets though, and that force projection capability of China is growing.



Yes & that is very worrying.
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Message 1222313 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 20:09:12 UTC - in response to Message 1222263.  

The thing is, short of preventive war (which I am pretty sure you are not advocating, what China does in terms of its capability is pretty much up to China.

Of course it you would like to divert China for a while, someone needs to change the meds the powers in North Korea are consuming -- instead of focusing on the threat of the rest of the world, have them focus on China as the primary threat....


stationary targets though, and that force projection capability of China is growing.



Yes & that is very worrying.

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Message 1222324 - Posted: 23 Apr 2012, 20:44:20 UTC
Last modified: 23 Apr 2012, 20:45:42 UTC

It really would be a strange turn of events if China decides to become an aggressively imperialist nation. I would just hope that their main interest is in peace.
#resist
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