Dale Farm Travellers

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Message 1147612 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 19:30:39 UTC

I feel sorry for the local tax payers...."Multi Million pound cost to remove them"
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Message 1147619 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 19:36:37 UTC

I feel those who argue that travellers have been doing it for thousands of years, and it is natural, are completely wrong.

The illegal pitches have brick built homes and large static caravans on the pitches. So much for a nomadic travellers, always on the move, life. The report says that the majority of the illegal pitches have been there for 10 years, so how are they different from normal people who buy normal houses?
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1147834 - Posted: 1 Sep 2011, 6:44:24 UTC

Here we go again, another minority to bash.
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Message 1147998 - Posted: 1 Sep 2011, 19:21:20 UTC - in response to Message 1147834.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2011, 19:21:46 UTC

Here we go again, another minority to bash.




I thought this would draw Hev to make one of her blue moon appearences!!
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1147999 - Posted: 1 Sep 2011, 19:37:54 UTC - in response to Message 1147834.  

Here we go again, another minority to bash.


May be, but they are a minority with a big difference though.
Do you have these type gypsy's in Canada Hev?
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Message 1148005 - Posted: 1 Sep 2011, 20:02:06 UTC

Here's a question for the Minorities Lovers...

...The Majorities are now Minorities, so ARE you going to stand up for us?
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Message 1148105 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 3:32:30 UTC - in response to Message 1147999.  

Here we go again, another minority to bash.


May be, but they are a minority with a big difference though.
Do you have these type gypsy's in Canada Hev?


Hi Michael, I have only recently moved back to live in Canada so don't know what the situation is here.

Previously though I worked in South London for a government initiated project to work with the socially and educationally excluded, some of these being from the travelling community.

Presumably the eviction from Dale Farm will include children, were will they go?



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Message 1148120 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 4:51:07 UTC - in response to Message 1148112.  

'California is the place to be!'

The Peoples Republik of Santa Monica!

Actually the traveling people in California are from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and the like and they follow the short handle hoe work around the Central Valley.

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Message 1148285 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 18:14:15 UTC - in response to Message 1148105.  

Here we go again, another minority to bash.


May be, but they are a minority with a big difference though.
Do you have these type gypsy's in Canada Hev?


Hi Michael, I have only recently moved back to live in Canada so don't know what the situation is here.

Previously though I worked in South London for a government initiated project to work with the socially and educationally excluded, some of these being from the travelling community.

Presumably the eviction from Dale Farm will include children, were will they go?



Hi Hev, Where will the children go is a very valid point and a concern. But you will have guessed by reading many of the threads here lately that many of us feel that this should be their parents concern and responsibility first. These people should not have put their families & children is this position in the first place, It's annoying to many of us that people today have got the habit of showing this irresponsibility towards themselves and other on many other issues.
Then when things go wrong for them it's expected of the state to pick the pieces up and be shouldered with blame for the cause of it all. I feel that the social system in this country is doing far too much for people, so taking individuals need to support and care for themselves away. These travelers in question chose to break the law by not gaining planning permission to build on this land. The knew they were breaking the law and knew what the consequences of breaking the law could result in. They chose to be irresponsible in their approach to things so it's only right that they shoulder the responsibility of their actions here.
What happens to their children now is for them to sort out, it's for them to make the necessary arrangements to get their children to school. Let wait now and see just how responsible the parents of these children are. Lets see if these parents do what is only right for their children and make every effort to get their children into school again by the start of this next new term.
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Message 1148997 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 20:31:45 UTC

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Message 1149005 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 21:34:04 UTC - in response to Message 1148997.  

Dale Farm Travellers get Jewish backing


Fine, but they don't get mine and the UN wont to keep their noses out of it.
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Message 1149018 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 22:11:05 UTC - in response to Message 1149006.  

Genuine Romany Gypsies have been recognised as a community since the 1600's, and have a strong heritage and tradition, popularly evidenced by the by their folk dress and horse drawn gaily painted caravans etc. What we appear to have here, are "New Age Travellers" or Pikeys, as they are called in the UK. They are simply society drop-outs. They are not recognised in the same way, despite claims to the contrary.

However, if they are chucked out, they will just set up camp somewhere else illegaly, and it will all start all over again. And yes of course, the needs of the elderly and children must be borne in mind.

The only answer as I see it, is to negotiate a replacement legal site for them, as an equitable settlement for both sides.


That's correct Chris there just Pikeys and not the genuine Romany Gypsies.
And how the UN can support a group of people who have broken the law defies belief!! The UK government has no choice here other than to enact the law as it is laid down. If they fail to do so this will be seen as a sign of weakness and god knows what groups of people, under the banner of being minorities, will do to take unfair advantages. If the majority groups have to follow the law so too do the minorities. There can be no differentiation here what ever any groups circumstances are. Unfortunately the dunder heads in the UN have failed to realise this and so have jumped head first into a potential quagmire. If we wont the UN's advice then we will ask for it, until then they can shove-off and do something useful like defend those white farmers in Zimbabwe who have been cold bloodily murdered over the years, well, they are a minority group too.

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Message 1149026 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:21:59 UTC - in response to Message 1149018.  

This is the same UN that placed Libya (under Quadaffi) and Syria on the Human Rights committee. So of course, I'm shocked, shocked, that stupidity is going on in this arena.


And how the UN can support a group of people who have broken the law defies belief!!


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Message 1149030 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 1149018.  

Genuine Romany Gypsies have been recognised as a community since the 1600's, and have a strong heritage and tradition, popularly evidenced by the by their folk dress and horse drawn gaily painted caravans etc. What we appear to have here, are "New Age Travellers" or Pikeys, as they are called in the UK. They are simply society drop-outs. They are not recognised in the same way, despite claims to the contrary.

However, if they are chucked out, they will just set up camp somewhere else illegaly, and it will all start all over again. And yes of course, the needs of the elderly and children must be borne in mind.

The only answer as I see it, is to negotiate a replacement legal site for them, as an equitable settlement for both sides.


That's correct Chris there just Pikeys and not the genuine Romany Gypsies.
And how the UN can support a group of people who have broken the law defies belief!! The UK government has no choice here other than to enact the law as it is laid down. If they fail to do so this will be seen as a sign of weakness and god knows what groups of people, under the banner of being minorities, will do to take unfair advantages. If the majority groups have to follow the law so too do the minorities. There can be no differentiation here what ever any groups circumstances are. Unfortunately the dunder heads in the UN have failed to realise this and so have jumped head first into a potential quagmire. If we wont the UN's advice then we will ask for it, until then they can shove-off and do something useful like defend those white farmers in Zimbabwe who have been cold bloodily murdered over the years, well, they are a minority group too.


So we have a hierarchy of different travelling communities? First of all these people are not "New Age Travellers" they are an ethnic cultural minority in their own right and have been around for several centuries.

The site that they are being evicted from was originally a "brownfield" site which was then termed "greenbelt" when it was bought, it was originally a scrapyard. Read the history of the restrictions on "travellers" with reference to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which repealed the Caravan Sites Act 1968 to provide sites for gypsy and traveller use.

Pikey is a pejorative term, offensive to the travelling community and seen as racist.

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Message 1149036 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:51:38 UTC

Hi Michael, I have only recently moved back to live in Canada so don't know what the situation is here.


Here in Alberta it is true that people don’t camp out when the temperatures go down a bit in the winter. Years ago while I was still at work a report came across my desk about families from the southern part of the United Sates who traveled up to Edmonton and other civic centers to stay for most of the summer. These families were known to make a living by shop lifting at the larger big box stores and shopping malls. Now some of these people were known as Romany. Not all were caught breaking the law, most did not live in tents or trailers, most lived in motels. (Small road side accommodations.) In almost every case these people moved around in family groups. The ones that were caught as thieves were in fact very sophisticated at what they did. Again, they mostly lived in Motels, they came in the late spring, and they left in the early fall. Not all were criminals, and not all identified as Romany or Gypsys. I don’t know about other parts of the country, and very little about how these people live in the United States.
I can say that the population of this part of Canada do not know a lot about them. If these people are a problem here, they are not a well known one.

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Message 1149039 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:56:35 UTC

The only problem I have with all of this is "they're supposed to be travellers"?

Really? SO why need a fixed base?

As far as I'm concerned, the moment they set up a permanent static residence, they become residents & legally liable for all taxes & utilitiy bills due!

So, which is it to be? Travellers or residents? And that is sweet damn all to do with racism!
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Message 1149044 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 0:17:15 UTC - in response to Message 1149036.  

They do the same in the USA, very very organized. Others pretend to be contractors or handymen. Needless to say work is so substandard it is hazardous and you had better inventory your dwelling after they leave. A few are part of a carnival. Doubt the rides ever get inspected, but at least they aren't out boosting stuff. Some that have settled down become fortune tellers.

In older days, grandpa's time, word that the Gypsies were in town meant to lock everything up and sit on your porch with a shotgun. Literally.

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Message 1149048 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 0:34:06 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2011, 0:35:02 UTC

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster
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Message 1149050 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 1:12:08 UTC - in response to Message 1149048.  

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster



Fantastic...currently printing it out for forwarding to the Race Relations Board.

That is the one of the most highly discriminating documents I've ever had the pleasure in reading....

Follow ups to come..............
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Message 1149051 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 1:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 1149030.  

So we have a hierarchy of different travelling communities? First of all these people are not "New Age Travellers" they are an ethnic cultural minority in their own right and have been around for several centuries.

The site that they are being evicted from was originally a "brownfield" site which was then termed "greenbelt" when it was bought, it was originally a scrapyard. Read the history of the restrictions on "travellers" with reference to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which repealed the Caravan Sites Act 1968 to provide sites for gypsy and traveller use.

Pikey is a pejorative term, offensive to the travelling community and seen as racist.



Well Hev feels that they should be favored since there a minority group so does the local Jewish community too. Yes, they are a minority group because they chose to be one. But this tag they have does not permit them to break the law. A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's. The laws of the land must be upheld at all costs this way the whole population feels protected and too promotes confidence that the judicial system acts for all and not just for some. There can not be any special case for these gypsies for they have no grounds for it. They are all part of the community as a whole and the laws created are done so for the benefit of the whole community and not just for some parts of it. To this end the gypsies have NO defense against special treatment else they will have to show why they are not part of the community. If they attempt to do this then our government would be guilty of permitting self segregation if they accepted their case. This would be highly dangerous and would lead to racism against these gypsies. So it would be best for all concerned that the UK government enforces the law against them for the best interests of the community as a whole and for the gypsies too.
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