WHY do you/don't you believe in GOD?

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Luke
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Message 987883 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 1:18:52 UTC

In response to Mark's thread - I'd thought I'd extend it a little from a YES or NO answer.

Explain your YES or NO answer. No flaming.

Me, personally, I've had sh!t happen to me that rattled any belief in a deity. The bible is full of outrageous claims and 'laws', hell, it basically even said Pi was equal to "3".

So, NO, I don't believe in god or deities. I'm athiest. If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,
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Message 987888 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 2:08:26 UTC

I don't believe in God mainly because I see no reason for there to be one. The universe we see around us doesn't require one for its existence.

So far as we know, humans are the only life-form aware of it's own mortality. We all know, as individuals, that one day we will die. Some are unable or unwilling to accept this basic fact-of-existence and invent the concept of 'souls' and 'ever-lasting life' and 'God'.

No I don't believe in God, and for the same reason that I don't believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy or the Great Pumpkin. I left all of those things in childhood, where they belong.
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Message 987892 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 2:20:32 UTC - in response to Message 987883.  

In response to Mark's thread - I'd thought I'd extend it a little from a YES or NO answer.

Explain your YES or NO answer. No flaming.

Me, personally, I've had sh!t happen to me that rattled any belief in a deity. The bible is full of outrageous claims and 'laws', hell, it basically even said Pi was equal to "3".

So, NO, I don't believe in god or deities. I'm athiest. If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

First you have to define GOD. Every person has some set of things that the word means to them. Every single one of them is different. Just as different as what "west bank" means to a Palestinian and an Israeli.

I don't believe in any of the organized religions versions of God.

Something created the universe. That is God. Does it care about the universe? Who knows. Creating universes should be child's play to a god and the child is busy playing with other things and mom swept us up and tossed us into the trash can.


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Message 988000 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 6:25:04 UTC

I am God...to my dog.
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Message 988009 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 7:07:07 UTC - in response to Message 987883.  

In response to Mark's thread - I'd thought I'd extend it a little from a YES or NO answer.

Explain your YES or NO answer. No flaming.

Me, personally, I've had sh!t happen to me that rattled any belief in a deity. The bible is full of outrageous claims and 'laws', hell, it basically even said Pi was equal to "3".

So, NO, I don't believe in god or deities. I'm athiest. If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,


The question is always framed as a matter of faith not knowledge.

It never specifies which god. Rest assured the ones asserted to be monotheist do not have the same god save by a currently popular politically correct assertion.

Do you have knowledge of physical evidence which leads you to believe in something which is commonly referred to as a god? If so which god? Of if this god is otherwise unknown what does the evidence indicate is its nature?


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Message 988013 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 7:20:43 UTC - in response to Message 988009.  

In response to Mark's thread - I'd thought I'd extend it a little from a YES or NO answer.

Explain your YES or NO answer. No flaming.

Me, personally, I've had sh!t happen to me that rattled any belief in a deity. The bible is full of outrageous claims and 'laws', hell, it basically even said Pi was equal to "3".

So, NO, I don't believe in god or deities. I'm athiest. If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,


The question is always framed as a matter of faith not knowledge.

It never specifies which god. Rest assured the ones asserted to be monotheist do not have the same god save by a currently popular politically correct assertion.

Do you have knowledge of physical evidence which leads you to believe in something which is commonly referred to as a god? If so which god? Of if this god is otherwise unknown what does the evidence indicate is its nature?



I asked for an answer. Not a question.

My reason? I don't want this thread becoming flame bait.
- Luke.
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Message 988024 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 8:36:44 UTC - in response to Message 988013.  


...
The question is always framed as a matter of faith not knowledge.

It never specifies which god. Rest assured the ones asserted to be monotheist do not have the same god save by a currently popular politically correct assertion.

Do you have knowledge of physical evidence which leads you to believe in something which is commonly referred to as a god? If so which god? Of if this god is otherwise unknown what does the evidence indicate is its nature?



I asked for an answer. Not a question.

My reason? I don't want this thread becoming flame bait.


Flaming is fun if done creatively but your choice.

ANSWER:
No one believes in "god" as there is no commonly accepted definition of the word. As such the question is meaningless. I took the liberty of digressing upon why it is a meaningless question.

To continue:
That answered may I suggest you define the god you are talking about? That eliminates the theological Christian god which cannot be defined as it cannot be comprehended. As the Muslim version is always "ineffable" it too cannot be defined. That sort of exhausts the monotheism as Judaism is not a monotheist religion as it is not a creedal religion.

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Message 988038 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 11:23:04 UTC - in response to Message 988024.  


...
The question is always framed as a matter of faith not knowledge.

It never specifies which god. Rest assured the ones asserted to be monotheist do not have the same god save by a currently popular politically correct assertion.

Do you have knowledge of physical evidence which leads you to believe in something which is commonly referred to as a god? If so which god? Of if this god is otherwise unknown what does the evidence indicate is its nature?



I asked for an answer. Not a question.

My reason? I don't want this thread becoming flame bait.


Flaming is fun if done creatively but your choice.

ANSWER:
No one believes in "god" as there is no commonly accepted definition of the word. As such the question is meaningless. I took the liberty of digressing upon why it is a meaningless question.

To continue:
That answered may I suggest you define the god you are talking about? That eliminates the theological Christian god which cannot be defined as it cannot be comprehended. As the Muslim version is always "ineffable" it too cannot be defined. That sort of exhausts the monotheism as Judaism is not a monotheist religion as it is not a creedal religion.

For some strange reason, I believe "Most" here know what Luke means. Bet you did too.
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Message 988105 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 17:28:51 UTC - in response to Message 987883.  

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.
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Message 988119 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 18:04:12 UTC

Here's a well thought out and respectfully presented argument against the idea of a god.

Essentially, the basic premise is to ask the question about why if God is claimed to have healed cancers, illnesses and other various medical conditions, why then hasn't God ever healed an amputee?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
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Message 988129 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 19:01:35 UTC

Yes, I do believe in God.

However, the God I believe in did not make us as dolls or artworks to be enjoyed and kept on a shelf. If God had made us perfect, unable to do harm or be harmed, merely to exist in a world without strife, disease, or any other hardship, we would not be human at all. We would be nothing more than paintings or statues in a garden. The Christian Bible uses that very allegory in Genesis.

kenzieB doesn't see a reason for a God. Humans can do a lot of things, but we cannot explain, let alone create the universe and all its complex rules and interactions. God is the reason for the existence of all of this. God has no gender (that would be limiting); God has no form -- God is not an old man in a painting breathing life into humans. It is because of God that we exist and because of God that we die. If we experience good things in our lives, it is because God made us to be able to create good things and to enjoy them. If we experience bad things in our lives because God made us able to do bad things and to do something about them.

God is not miracles. God has us do things that appear to be miracles. When a vaccination for polio was found it is because there is such a thing as polio and there are people who can address the disease and find a solution. When people die on an operating table and are brought back to life by a skilled doctor, I still see that as a miracle, just as people 2000 years ago thought of bringing a person back to life as a miracle.

God is the reason water boils at 32°F; and the reason hydrogen atoms formed after the Big Bang; and the reason for black holes, stars, planets, people, single celled organisms, atoms and quarks. No scientist has ever been able to explain why the universe gelled in the way that it did and not with some other odd set of physical rules, just as no scientist has ever been able to explain why a singularity 14 billion years ago decided to expand into the universe we know today.

I do believe in God. Not a God that sticks His finger into my personal life, except to the extent that the God I know has made me susceptible to a complex set of physical and moral rules. The God I believe in made everything, including me, but did not make my universe a perfectly safe place nor did God limit me to being a perfect person incapable of error. This leaves me the goals of making our world better and striving for perfection as a moral being (not many have reached that).

I know my response raises other questions, as it should, but this is the simplest and most direct way I can describe my belief in the "thing" (still a very limiting term) that created -- everything.
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Message 988153 - Posted: 10 Apr 2010, 20:43:24 UTC - in response to Message 988105.  

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.


But surely there wouldn't be any sin in the first place if there was a god.
Blatantly, 'afterlife' is just an invention by "imperfect" and scared humans who don't want to die. People who believe in a afterlife are simply afraid of dieing.

The worlds troubles are all caused by religion, whether it be Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions, The catholic church sex scandal, 9/11, London Underground, Madrid Bombings.

It all traces back to religion. All it does is cause arguments, fights, wars, loss and sadness!
- Luke.
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Message 988457 - Posted: 11 Apr 2010, 22:07:42 UTC - in response to Message 988153.  
Last modified: 11 Apr 2010, 22:21:24 UTC

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.

But surely there wouldn't be any sin in the first place if there was a god.

There wouldn't be anything at all if there wasn't a God.

Blatantly, 'afterlife' is just an invention by "imperfect" and scared humans who don't want to die. People who believe in a afterlife are simply afraid of dieing.

So now you are going to tell me and others why we believe the way we do. Not only is that extremely arrogant of you, I view it as flamebait.

The worlds troubles are all caused by religion, whether it be Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions, The catholic church sex scandal, 9/11, London Underground, Madrid Bombings.

The worlds troubles... Don't forget about sickness, injuries, car accidents, plane crashes, train derailments, earthquakes, tornadoes, other natural disasters, crime, drug addiction, prostitution, alcoholism, depression, the fire in your backyard, generic technical difficulties, DoS attacks, slow internet connections, multiple personalities and obsessive compulsive cyber-stalkers who live in the past. Yep, all those are caused by religion. Rubbish.

It all traces back to religion. All it does is cause arguments, fights, wars, loss and sadness!

A person doesn't need to rely on organized religion for their own personal faith.
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Message 988469 - Posted: 11 Apr 2010, 22:50:36 UTC - in response to Message 988457.  


There wouldn't be anything at all if there wasn't a God.


How do you know that? Give me factual encyclopedic evidence supporting the existence of a god or god-like structure to the universe. We don't no what was before or after the big bang - whether time existed or not... look up Oscillating Universe and Big Bounce.


So now you are going to tell me and others why we believe the way we do. Not only is that extremely arrogant of you, I view it as flamebait.


But it is. Many others agree. It's arrogant of you to believe in something for which no proof exists.


The worlds troubles... Don't forget about sickness, injuries, car accidents, plane crashes, train derailments, earthquakes, tornadoes, other natural disasters, crime, drug addiction, prostitution, alcoholism, depression, the fire in your backyard, generic technical difficulties, DoS attacks, slow internet connections, multiple personalities and obsessive compulsive cyber-stalkers who live in the past. Yep, all those are caused by religion. Rubbish.


I never said those troubles were caused by religion. I only said Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions, The catholic church sex scandal, 9/11, London Underground, Madrid Bombings - nothing more.


A person doesn't need to rely on organized religion for their own personal faith.


Agreed.

- Luke.
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Message 988518 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 2:16:57 UTC

I put this in the wrong thread, sorry.

As I have stated before, I consider myself a Deist.

As such, I reject organized religion. I simply cannot reconcile man's self-absorbed expressions of "faith" and the historical and current hypocrisy within the world's religions.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1819, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."

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Message 988581 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 7:40:41 UTC

As human knowledge advances, religious doctrin is pushed aside.
I'm fairly certain no one sacrifices a virgin to the gods in order to cause the sun to rise anymore.


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I fight them because they are fascists.
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Message 988587 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 8:26:36 UTC - in response to Message 988038.  


...
The question is always framed as a matter of faith not knowledge.

It never specifies which god. Rest assured the ones asserted to be monotheist do not have the same god save by a currently popular politically correct assertion.

Do you have knowledge of physical evidence which leads you to believe in something which is commonly referred to as a god? If so which god? Of if this god is otherwise unknown what does the evidence indicate is its nature?



I asked for an answer. Not a question.

My reason? I don't want this thread becoming flame bait.


Flaming is fun if done creatively but your choice.

ANSWER:
No one believes in "god" as there is no commonly accepted definition of the word. As such the question is meaningless. I took the liberty of digressing upon why it is a meaningless question.

To continue:
That answered may I suggest you define the god you are talking about? That eliminates the theological Christian god which cannot be defined as it cannot be comprehended. As the Muslim version is always "ineffable" it too cannot be defined. That sort of exhausts the monotheism as Judaism is not a monotheist religion as it is not a creedal religion.

For some strange reason, I believe "Most" here know what Luke means. Bet you did too.


I do not KNOW what he means. I can guess. Those today who are interested in public confessions of belief or admissions of non-belief are redneck, Republican fundies. Were I to respond to that I would be demonstrating the real meaning of flaming.

I can run down a number of other assumptions to make before answering but they are equally flaming.

I did answer in a way in which I would hope anyone who thought they understood what he meant has had second thoughts.

Even a cursory knowledge of European history would know of profession of belief in the Christian god always has the implicit conditional qualification "as I conceive him to be" with different conceptions requiring wars of extermination. The only agreement in this case would be in the requirement to exterminate the other. Thus yes, they all believe in a god which requires mutual extermination. Anyone here believe in that god?

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Message 988588 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 8:33:16 UTC - in response to Message 988105.  

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.


"And the world looked up upon the heavens and cried with a loud voice, Help! I've fallen! And I can't get up!" Matt. 23.2

Yet no place in all understanding of the world and the universe in which it is resident is there the slightest hint of the concepts perfect or imperfect much less indication of a change of the laws of nature in 4004 BC or whenever this fall is supposed to have occurred.

How can this be?

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Message 988590 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 8:51:59 UTC - in response to Message 988105.  

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.


It is obvious there would be no sin if your gods had not given rules in the first place. No rules means nothing to disobey. No disobedience then no sin. No sin then nothing fallen. The a priori creation rules is the root of the problem. If you are really talking about gods they do not have to do anything much less have to create rules.

Please get with the program going back to at least the ancient Greeks. You post statements that would not get passed Gymnasium 101.

The Christians settled on "life as a test" around the 5th or 6th c. as a way out of this conundrum. Strangely about the same time this was adopted Christians took up with an obsessive interest in the connection between sin and women's hairstyles. Christians are very strange people.
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Message 988593 - Posted: 12 Apr 2010, 8:55:09 UTC - in response to Message 988457.  

If there is a perfect god, why is there an imperfect world???

Regards,

It's a fallen world because of sin.

But surely there wouldn't be any sin in the first place if there was a god.


There wouldn't be anything at all if there wasn't a God.


Please explain where you got this idea. Are you saying Genesis was written 13.5 billion years ago?

So who told you that and why did you believe them?



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